OPEN LETTER: Foreigners with local businesses face impossible financial demands and regulations

[CaptainCarrot]

5 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Do they still have that program in Malaysia, My Second Home? 

The Malaysia  My Second Home program is currently suspended, whilst Immigration and Tourism Ministries sort out their differences (allegedly). But even before, it was not designed for entrepreneurs (other than perhaps for Global Nomads)  as it does not allow one to work in Malaysia.

[connda]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

A foreigner who launched a start-up business in Phuket before the the COVID-19 outbreak details how foreigners who have spent millions of baht launching a businesses in Phuket are now stuck in an impossible situation financially, and unable to even comply with Immigration requirements due to no income during the current economic crisis.

Ouch.  I hadn't thought about that parsnicky little conundrum.  Well, more fuel for the fires of xenophobia as Thailand finds ways to eject once productive foreign businessmen out of the country for being unable to meet the letter of immigration law due government mandates that killed the tourism industry and other sectors of the economy nationwide.  Well, I guess the only good foreigner is one who has been bled dry and then kicked out of the country.  No doubt that large swathes of dirty foreigners will be invited to leave over the next few months and well into next year if not beyond.  IDC should be ram-jam-full with those nasty disease-carrying non-Thais who find themselves between a rock and an immovable bureaucracy especially after "amnesty" is over.  Foreign businessmen, foreign husbands who have used an ME visa to stay in Thailand to support their families but now can't make the border bounce, foreign tourists with legitimate visas who can not make border bounces as well as those in a Covid-induced financial bind -- one day all 'good guys' supporting Thailand and Thais, the next day all 'bad guys' in need of jails, fines, and deportation.
"When in doubt?  Kick them out!!!"  Thailand for Thais baby.  Thailand for Thais.

[klauskunkel]

17 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

What do you want as a government with foreigners who invest money in a Thai company?

A wristwatch, maybe?

[khunPer]

From the article, the short facts is that it's a Thai company limited with 49 percent of the shares owned by foreigners as investment; furthermore two foreigners has, or had, a work permit.

 

I cannot see that this Thai company is different from other Thai business, even that some shares are held by foreigners. Many companies in Thailand has foreign investors, and a number of companies, with or without foreign shareholders, employ foreigners.

 

I always hear that normally you shall count up to three years before a company makes a profit, and if a business does not make a profit in three years, it shall be reconsidered if the business shall continue. Little hard saying, but business is hard.

 

I've seen many foreigners opening bars and restaurants on the Thai holiday destination where I reside, and there are always some that only lasts for about six month, or less, and some that close before three years. I know the background in few of the cases, which was lack of enough money to build up a successful business; however the same might count for some of the others.

 

It's always sad if a business plan don't work – and for some business' it might included a majority, if not all, of the owner's assets – but business is like playing the lottery, some times you losse, and when you win, it might be a jackpot; it's with the dream about jackpot that many starts a business.

 

As I see the open letter in the article, it's like foreigners should be granted some extra advantages during the pandemic-lockdown, compared to solely Thai owned companies. Understandable that extending a stay of a non-immigrant B visa based on work permit might be extremely difficult, if not impossible, if the number of staff is not there, but that might be part of a business risk.

 

The article didn't mention facts about other options, like age and possibility for extension based on retirement, or married to a Thai, and the possibility of extension of stay based on marriage.

 

I know from personal experience how hard it is to be a business owner, and how hard some external factors can hit both the business and oneself, and how bad it is, if you don't have enough of backup of capital. At the moment we see many business going under because of that – i.e. not enough reserve capital – many of them had a tight budget, or already problems, before the Covid-19 pandemic lockdown hit them, for example a number of airlines, and some owners lost their investment.

 

I always feel sorry for hard working entrepreneurs that gets into problems – I know it well from my own experience – but I also believe in that risk is part of the game being a business owner; and it's always even more risky to a start a business in a foreign country.

 

Once again I'm reminded of: "Never invest more in Thailand than you can afford to lose".

[BritManToo]

5 hours ago, NightSky said:

The government bank has stopped collecting mortgage payments until next February 2021, im not sure is some of the other banks are doing the same thing?

 

it was a pleasant surprise for the wife when she checked her account

SCB are still collecting my mortgage payments.

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

5 hours ago, NightSky said:

The government bank has stopped collecting mortgage payments until next February 2021, im not sure is some of the other banks are doing the same thing?

 

it was a pleasant surprise for the wife when she checked her account

SCB are still collecting my mortgage payments.

 

SCB are not collecting our mortgage. Wife applied for Mortgage relief 4 months ago when the announcements were made that this was possible.

The mortgage relief was supposed to end this month and we were supposed to pay our mortgage. 

However, there was no such requirement / outstanding payment due this month. 

 

Thus, its seems the ‘mortgage relief’ may have been extended for those who initially applied for relief a few months ago.

[robertson468]

On 9/15/2020 at 1:02 AM, Oldie said:

It is for sure a bad situation. But I never understood why people come to Thailand to make money. If they can do it here it would have been much easier to be and to stay successful in their home country. Thailand is a place to spend money but not to make it. 

 

I have been in business in Thailand for nearly 14 years and have made on average 1.4 million baht per year, I also have several Friends who are also running successful business here in Thailand.  Talking of running a business in their home country - have you actually seen the vast amount of businesses that have folded?  The issue is not only contained to Thailand, but there again, if you had applied a little bit of thought and research before writing this rubbish, you would realise how silly you have made yourself look.

[Poet]

16 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

I have been in business in Thailand for nearly 14 years and have made on average 1.4 million baht per year, I also have several Friends who are also running successful business here in Thailand.

Your successful business made 1.4 million baht per year?

Did you mean dollars?
 

[Bender Rodriguez]

20 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

foreigners who have spent millions of baht launching a businesses in Phuket

if you have to start with MILLIONS ...  

 

how do thais start a business...   no need for 2 million baht investment, 50k salary, 4 thais, etc...

[billythehat]

45 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

You clearly speak through a hole in your orifice!  I have been in business in Thailand for nearly 14 years and have made on average 1.4 million baht per year, I also have several Friends who are also running successful business here in Thailand.  Talking of running a business in their home country - have you actually seen the vast amount of businesses that have folded?  The issue is not only contained to Thailand, but there again, if you had applied a little bit of thought and research before writing this rubbish, you would realise how silly you have made yourself look.

Sir, could you please expand on your own miraculous business model here? An ‘average’ of THB 1.4m (about £35k) per annum is somewhat slim pickings after deducting the costs of running a proper business. I urge caution when accusing others of talking through their Sheriff’s rusty badge.

[Oldie]

41 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

You clearly speak through a hole in your orifice!  I have been in business in Thailand for nearly 14 years and have made on average 1.4 million baht per year, I also have several Friends who are also running successful business here in Thailand.  Talking of running a business in their home country - have you actually seen the vast amount of businesses that have folded?  The issue is not only contained to Thailand, but there again, if you had applied a little bit of thought and research before writing this rubbish, you would realise how silly you have made yourself look.

1.4 million a year. You must be so rich. But if converted to USD that is not much. You are a poor person if you can't afford to stay in Thailand without working. And if I look at your choice of words that you use I guess you are in the bar business. But anyhow. I enjoy the quiet time without many tourists here. I hope you can enjoy it too. 

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, billythehat said:

Sir, could you please expand on your own miraculous business model here? An ‘average’ of THB 1.4m (about £35k) per annum is somewhat slim pickings after deducting the costs of running a proper business.

 

56 minutes ago, Oldie said:

1.4 million a year. You must be so rich. But if converted to USD that is not much. You are a poor person if you can't afford to stay in Thailand without working.

Things like profit on a Thai business should be considered relative to the business being in Thailand, it's actually a fine profit, when thinking of how many retired expats that have problems with funding a 800k baht deposit, or showing monthly transfers of 65k baht during a year; 1.4 million is almost the double of 800k baht, and almost 117k baht a month, well done...????

[natway09]

There are thousands of us in the same boat.Recapitalize or walk away.

This is no Nanny state which we knew when we started

[Oldie]

5 minutes ago, khunPer said:

 

Things like profit on a Thai business should be considered relative to the business being in Thailand, it's actually a fine profit, when thinking of how many retired expats that have problems with funding a 800k baht deposit, or showing monthly transfers of 65k baht during a year; 1.4 million is almost the double of 800k baht, and almost 117k baht a month, well done...????

I have no problems with people working here. I just have problems with the words he used as response.

[NightSky]

5 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

It will be a shock when she has to pay the back payments after Feb 2021, With interest on money not paid.

No back payments to pay. Not sure about interest but it wouldn't make a difference on a 25 year mortgage anyhow. I doubt extra interest will be charged...

 

..the break from paying mortgage for almost 1 year is very much a good  and well received.

[NightSky]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

SCB are not collecting our mortgage. Wife applied for Mortgage relief 4 months ago when the announcements were made that this was possible.

The mortgage relief was supposed to end this month and we were supposed to pay our mortgage. 

However, there was no such requirement / outstanding payment due this month. 

 

Thus, its seems the ‘mortgage relief’ may have been extended for those who initially applied for relief a few months ago.

We didnt ask the government bank they suspended collection automatically for all mortgages from june 2020 until feb 2021

 

its good though!

[from the home of CC]

20 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Never invest money you can not afford to lose in any foreign country endeavor...

 

Sorry for your loss...don't expect any Thai help or sympathy...

yes I doubt in his native country the government would bail out a Thai company..

[KarenBravo]

10 minutes ago, NightSky said:

No back payments to pay. Not sure about interest but it wouldn't make a difference on a 25 year mortgage anyhow. I doubt extra interest will be charged...

 

..the break from paying mortgage for almost 1 year is very much a good  and well received.

You think they're giving you that money?

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

yes I doubt in his native country the government would bail out a Thai company..

No bailout for my Investigations company in the US, as I had to close because of Covid.  All our contracts with the hotel industry both in the US, and Internationally, were canceled due to the companies using an emergency clause allowing for cancelation due to financial hardship.  Had to lay off my 4 employees.  However, you always need to expect the unexpected and save for economic hardships, as my investigators did, plus I gave them 6 months of base salary.  No one to reimburse my failed company, so I am not sure why the hotel industry here is clamoring for a bailout, or other business owners.  You take a chance, sometimes you hit a homerun and other times you strike out.

[NightSky]

4 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

You think they're giving you that money?

Nope. They simply paused collecting it as i already mentioned several times over.

 

We asked about it and it was explained as ive said. 

 

All GSB bank mortgages are paused until feb 2021 automatically

[NightSky]

3 hours ago, NightSky said:

We didnt ask the government bank they suspended collection automatically for all mortgages from june 2020 until feb 2021

 

its good though!

In addition, I found this article from April 2020 stating a three month payment holiday for certain banks..

 

However since then some banks (i.e. GSB) seem to have extended the relief period until next year from repayment mortgages (on less than a 3 million baht mortgage)

 

https://www.thaienquirer.com/10497/banks-postponing-debt-payment-to-help-customers-and-avoid-defaults/

 

Hope this helps!

 

PS - a bit more info here, this extends GSB loan relief to 6 months however I was informed at the bank its now extended until Feb 21.

 

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news/detail/TCATG200422160757662

 

 

It seems you can select to pay the interest or capital repayment after the suspension ends or add it to the loan no doubt. 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by NightSky

[billythehat]

4 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

You think they're giving you that money?

True, not free. In the UK there were many who thought such and such schemes were free cash. I know someone close who took a payment holiday and when that was finished, he discovered they had increased his monthly payments. 
If he had continued his usual payments, the monthly rate would not have increased after the 3-month payment ‘holiday’.
 

[bwpage3]

Too many people think they will come to Thailand and strike it rich in business.

 

No MBA, no business education, no business plan, etc.

 

They don't have the necessary backup capital that is needed to get over the first couple years and they go broke.

 

No one to blame but their own lack of education.

 

If you invest in Thailand and shoot the whole wad and lose it all, you are screwed.

 

Thailand is no place for foreigners with no money

[billythehat]

4 hours ago, khunPer said:

 

Things like profit on a Thai business should be considered relative to the business being in Thailand, it's actually a fine profit, when thinking of how many retired expats that have problems with funding a 800k baht deposit, or showing monthly transfers of 65k baht during a year; 1.4 million is almost the double of 800k baht, and almost 117k baht a month, well done...????

“it's actually a fine profit”

 

Without a breakdown of profit/loss/tax payments etc. how would you know what the ‘fine’ net profit was? The erstwhile businessman stated he'd made on average the sum, not what the actuals were. 
 

[Mark Evans]

 "I have been in business in Thailand for nearly 14 years and have made on average 1.4 million baht per year" So Robertson tell us what that really means? Annual revenue, annual gross profit or annual net profit?

You choose to denigrate Oldie yet fail to verify exactly how that number relates to your "business". 

If your claim of 1.4 million Baht is annual revenue then that's abysmal and barely sufficient to live on, especially if operating costs including your salary are taken into account. If 1.4M is gross profit, its still a disaster for the same reason. If by chance you are referring to net profit then it's hardly impressive as that's around $3750 USD PM. "On average 1.4 million Baht per year" infers that you have not actually had growth over those 14 years, again not impressive. I've met so many self proclaimed "businessman" in Thailand who boast about their success yet know so little about the basic fundamentals and wonder why they fail. Perhaps you could enlighten your new fan Khunper with more details as he obviously has no idea. 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/15/2020 at 12:10 AM, Puchaiyank said:

Never invest money you can not afford to lose in any foreign country endeavor...

 

Sorry for your loss...don't expect any Thai help or sympathy...

Don't expect much sympathy from anyone. Thailand is a capitalist country and foreign "investors" did so with the intent to make profit. Pretty sure they didn't do so for charitable reasons. They gambled and lost. If they knew what they were doing they must have known it was risky.

I've known for decades that LOS is not a country to invest money one can't afford to lose, and so should they have known if they did any research.

 

[Sharp]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Don't expect much sympathy from anyone. Thailand is a capitalist country and foreign "investors" did so with the intent to make profit. Pretty sure they didn't do so for charitable reasons. They gambled and lost. If they knew what they were doing they must have known it was risky.

I've known for decades that LOS is not a country to invest money one can't afford to lose, and so should they have known if they did any research.

 

A bit harsh wouldn't you say ( Who factors in a pandemic to financial planning and business model anywhere in the world)

Multinational Companies are in real bad shape financially or going Bankrupt as their due diligence has prevented nothing and <deleted> is hitting the fan!

 

Compassion costs nothing!!

[bodymassagemyfriend]

On 9/15/2020 at 1:57 AM, ChipButty said:

Goes back to the old joke, How to make a fortune in Thailand, is bring a big one with you

How to make a SMALL fortune is to bring a BIG one with you => This is a joke because it means you will loose a lot of money