Budget generator

[Shot]

I need a generator

 

I need something that will be used an hour or two most weeks, and 8-10 hours at a time once every three weeks. Let’s just say, it will run about 25 hours/month. It will need to run a computer, two fans, one LED light, I don’t need anything fancy. I would also like suggestions as to what power cord and strip I should run from it, into the house. I would like to keep it out back, so will need about 20 meter cord, that will accommodate use. Inexpensive and something I can order from Lazada will be a big plus.

 

Any suggestions from a happy recent buyer, or anyone with some generator knowledge would be really great. 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[Crossy]

Plenty of little gensets around 2-3 kVA that would do the trick.

 

Avoid 2-stroke units like the plague!

 

How are the neighbours, the cheap units are NOISY.

 

Are you looking for auto start (or at least auto stop when the mains comes back)? Note that going outside in the rain (it's always raining) and the dark (it's invariably dark too) gets old very rapidly.

 

If you're really going to be using it that often I'd suggest wiring in at least semi permanently so switch over is quick and easy.

 

[Shot]

@Crossy

 

No neighbors to worry about much. 

 

It will be in a covered lit area, with pleny of ventilation. Auto anything sounds good, but budget is key. 

[BritManToo]

Electric start, 6,000bht.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/raamboo-rb-2500e-4-65-22-kw-i228589727-s349335849.html

[Crossy]

10 hours ago, Shot said:

No neighbors to worry about much. 

It will be in a covered lit area, with pleny of ventilation. Auto anything sounds good, but budget is key. 

 

Our neighbour "problem" is that they see we still have all the lights on and wander over to gas with Madam, watch our TV, use our WiFi, eat our snacks and drink my beer (the latter mitigated somewhat by keeping a stock of the local hooch).

 

Your "lit area" won't be when the power is off  One of those rechargeable emergency lights may be handy ???? 

 

That little Ramboo for 6 grand with electric start looks pretty handy. That's probably a "Chonda" (Chinese copy Honda) engine so parts would be no issue.

 

Do note that load tends to expand, Madam will probably want her TV (can't miss the soaps) and then "aircon would be nice" and suddenly your baby genset needs a big brother. We have a Kwai Thong 6500 (5kVA) which runs the whole house except the water heaters (only one aircon, our bedroom). It's discussed in the thread linked below.

 

The simplest "transfer switch" would be to arrange everything you want to run to be powered by a single outlet. Then run a cable from the genset to another outlet next to it. Power goes off, go and start the genset then move the plug from the mains outlet to the genset outlet. Quick, easy and SAFE. Please no "suicide cords" (a lead with a plug on both ends, plug into an outlet and power the whole house).

 

Have a read of this thread, if you're reasonably handy you can do much more, the simple "auto-stop" is easy to do and saves your fuel.

 

 

 

 

[Shot]

On 9/24/2020 at 4:48 AM, Crossy said:

 

Our neighbour "problem" is that they see we still have all the lights on and wander over to gas with Madam, watch our TV, use our WiFi, eat our snacks and drink my beer (the latter mitigated somewhat by keeping a stock of the local hooch).

 

Your "lit area" won't be when the power is off  One of those rechargeable emergency lights may be handy ???? 

 

That little Ramboo for 6 grand with electric start looks pretty handy. That's probably a "Chonda" (Chinese copy Honda) engine so parts would be no issue.

 

Do note that load tends to expand, Madam will probably want her TV (can't miss the soaps) and then "aircon would be nice" and suddenly your baby genset needs a big brother. We have a Kwai Thong 6500 (5kVA) which runs the whole house except the water heaters (only one aircon, our bedroom). It's discussed in the thread linked below.

 

The simplest "transfer switch" would be to arrange everything you want to run to be powered by a single outlet. Then run a cable from the genset to another outlet next to it. Power goes off, go and start the genset then move the plug from the mains outlet to the genset outlet. Quick, easy and SAFE. Please no "suicide cords" (a lead with a plug on both ends, plug into an outlet and power the whole house).

 

Have a read of this thread, if you're reasonably handy you can do much more, the simple "auto-stop" is easy to do and saves your fuel.

 

 

 

 

Great information. Thank you very much. 

 

Yeah, not sure what I was thinking about 'well lit' area when the power is off. I'll have to send the Mrs. out with a torch to start the thing. 

 

I'm very fortunate my Mrs or kids don't watch TV, and AC drives my Mrs sinuses nuts, so we don't run that either. I took a good look at the Ramboo, it does look pretty good for the price. 

 

Thanks again, much appreciated.

 

 

[Shot]

On 9/23/2020 at 7:09 PM, BritManToo said:

Electric start, 6,000bht.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/raamboo-rb-2500e-4-65-22-kw-i228589727-s349335849.html

That looks like a nice unit, and the price is right. Thanks for the tip. 

[Crossy]

7 minutes ago, Shot said:

That looks like a nice unit, and the price is right. Thanks for the tip. 

 

Let us know if you buy one and how you get on with it.

[Sophon]

The same seller on Lazada has this larger model for 800 Baht more:

 

Would that be able to run lights, TV, fan and small (250w) house water pump? What about a 13k BTU AC?

[Crossy]

10 hours ago, Sophon said:

The same seller on Lazada has this larger model for 800 Baht more

Would that be able to run lights, TV, fan and small (250w) house water pump? What about a 13k BTU AC?

 

Probably marginal for the A/C unless it's an inverter type (no start surge).

 

Our 5kVA unit will just start the 12,000 BTU conventional A/C in the bedroom but doesn't flinch at the 23,000 BTU inverter in the lounge.

 

[Sophon]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Probably marginal for the A/C unless it's an inverter type (no start surge).

 

Our 5kVA unit will just start the 12,000 BTU conventional A/C in the bedroom but doesn't flinch at the 23,000 BTU inverter in the lounge.

 

Thanks, the A/C is an inverter, so should probably be OK (it's not essential anyway).

 

We have one of these usage monitors mounted in the CU.

 

I know that they are not that accurate, but the only time we exceed 2 KW is when using the shower heater.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Sophon

[Crossy]

I wish I could get our usage that low ???? 

 

Standing load is about 900W 24/7/365. Anyway, with an inverter A/C you should be fine ???? 

[bankruatsteve]

I used to run pretty much what you want with a 2kVA Honda.  It would bark and rumble a bit when the water pump on and any load over 7 amps would start it jumping.  Do make sure the place you want to put it is well ventilated and protected from direct rain.  They get very hot.  

 

Have you decided how to bring in the power?  Suggest transfer switch between a mains isolator and your CU.

[Sophon]

9 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

I used to run pretty much what you want with a 2kVA Honda.  It would bark and rumble a bit when the water pump on and any load over 7 amps would start it jumping.  Do make sure the place you want to put it is well ventilated and protected from direct rain.  They get very hot.  

 

Have you decided how to bring in the power?  Suggest transfer switch between a mains isolator and your CU.

The generator would be placed outside in an area sheltered from rain and sun under our third bedroom and the kitchen balcony.

 

That is where the mains cable comes up after running underground from the meter. The cable then comes into the ground floor (which belongs to our dogs) and is led upstairs into the roof space via the empty space in a double wall in one of our bathrooms.

 

From the roof space the cable comes down again to the CU inside the wall:

 

I would cut the cable where it comes out of the ground and place the generator and the changeover switch under the third bedroom. In order for the cable to reach the switch, I will have to pull 3-4 m. of cable down from the roof space through one 90 degree 1.25" bend, and I don't know how hard that will be (but I think it's doable). Luckily, I left about 6 m. of spare cable looped in the roof space. 

 

In this separate topic Crossy posted about this changeover switch:

I don't like that you have to "split" live and neutral on the load site, the more connections the more things that can go wrong. Don't changeover switches come in a "two in, one out" configuration? Since the load is the same (at least in my case) whether running from mains or generator, I don't see the logic in having to connect the same load to two different lives and neutrals.

 

The switch doesn't have to be as cheap as the one in Crossy's topic, and it would be a bonus if it came in it's own weather resistant box.

[bankruatsteve]

4 minutes ago, Sophon said:

Don't changeover switches come in a "two in, one out" configuration?

Mine does.  I got years ago from Amazon UK (I think) but should be locally available now.  A transfer switch should be, well, a transfer switch so maybe something not obvious for the one above.  (?)

[kamalabob2]

Your electrician did you no favors by using yellow conduit buried. He might not be aware that black HDPE with a red stripe has been the better choice of conduit for over 20 years in Thailand. Black HDPE conduit is readily available in Thailand. It is superior when you bury electric cable. You might consider a Honda generator. Long term satisfaction. Please rad the instruction book on how often to change the oil, no matter which generator you buy. Honda EU22i is a great dependable generator. It is not loud. It is a current Honda Power Product in Thailand. You can join two of this model together if your needs become greater. 

[Sophon]

4 minutes ago, kamalabob2 said:

Your electrician did you no favors by using yellow conduit buried. He might not be aware that black HDPE with a red stripe has been the better choice of conduit for over 20 years in Thailand. Black HDPE conduit is readily available in Thailand. It is superior when you bury electric cable. You might consider a Honda generator. Long term satisfaction. Please rad the instruction book on how often to change the oil, no matter which generator you buy. Honda EU22i is a great dependable generator. It is not loud. It is a current Honda Power Product in Thailand. You can join two of this model together if your needs become greater. 

I am the electrician, and the yellow conduit is just to give some warning if digging (more visible than black). Using NYY cable no conduit is really needed.

[Sophon]

Would something like this automatic transfer switch from AliExpress work, if always set to "manual" and ignoring the automatic control ports when wiring in (i.e. only connecting mains, generator and load)?

[bankruatsteve]

15 minutes ago, Sophon said:

Would something like this automatic transfer switch from AliExpress work, if always set to "manual" and ignoring the automatic control ports when wiring in (i.e. only connecting mains, generator and load)?

It looks like it would.  I don't see the output terminals but suppose they are there somewhere.  (?)

[Sophon]

7 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

It looks like it would.  I don't see the output terminals but suppose they are there somewhere.  (?)

The output terminals are hidden behind the back-up power ports

[Yellowtail]

On 10/4/2020 at 3:29 PM, Sophon said:

I am the electrician...

 

Nice work....

[Sophon]

A couple of questions:

The switch on AliExpress I posted this link to, comes in several variations 16A, 32A, 63A, 80A, 100A and 125A. Since my main breaker (RCBO) in my CU is 63A I assume that the rating of the new switch should at a minimum be the same. But is there any reason for or against going for one with a higher rating (e.g. 125A)?

 

I think the switch will work with this enclosure, also from AliExpress: 

 

I was initially thinking that the HT-8Way model (pictured) would be a suitable size, comfortably supporting the dimensions of the switch without it being too cramped, or leaving to much empty space. But then I started wondering if maybe there is something else I should consider installing in the box in addition to the switch e.g. some sort of surge/lightning protections?  

 

Despite having done all the electrics in our house myself (with a lot of guidance from this forum and Crossy in particular), my knowledge of electrics is not broad enough to know what to ask for, so any suggestions are very welcome.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Sophon said:

But is there any reason for or against going for one with a higher rating (e.g. 125A)?

 

Always go for something bigger, the 125A may be overkill, but it won't do any harm.

 

Your surge protection should be as near to the supply intake as practical, if that means it can go in the box too then go for it.

 

Like the switch, the box can never be too big, it can be too small.

 

[Sophon]

26 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Always go for something bigger, the 125A may be overkill, but it won't do any harm.

 

Your surge protection should be as near to the supply intake as practical, if that means it can go in the box too then go for it.

 

Like the switch, the box can never be too big, it can be too small.

 

Thanks Crossy.

 

So something like this would protect against unhealthy variations in the supply from PEA, and offer some protection for our equipment?:

 

And this is for protection against surges caused by e.g. lightning (I know it won't offer protection against a direct or near strike)?:

 

They come in three variations; Type B, C and D. Which one is suitable for a normal household like ours? The 385VAC rating confuses me, does that mean that they are not suitable for our 220V supply, or is the 385 just a maximum rating?

 

If I install both surge arrester and over/under voltage protection, what would be the correct order. I would think that for maximum protection the surge arrester should come first, so 'surge arrester' => 'transfer switch' => 'over/under voltage device'?

Edited October 8, 2020 by Sophon

[Crossy]

Yes, the under/over units are good insurance.

 

For the surge arrestors the closer to your supply voltage Uo is the better but I wouldn't go below 300V ish. The bigger the "kA" the better, our incoming units are 100kA with 60kA at the solar inverter (on the AC and DC sides).

 

[tonray]

On 9/24/2020 at 4:48 AM, Crossy said:

eat our snacks

When the power goes out next time, you should immediately head over to their house and wipe them out of snacks and beer. The next time it happens, they'll be hiding under the bed.

[Sophon]

10 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Yes, the under/over units are good insurance.

 

For the surge arrestors the closer to your supply voltage Uo is the better but I wouldn't go below 300V ish. The bigger the "kA" the better, our incoming units are 100kA with 60kA at the solar inverter (on the AC and DC sides).

 

So out of the surge arresters I posted, the B-type 30-60kA would be the best choice?

 

I cannot find surge arresters on AliExpress with a higher rating than 60kA, and I also cannot find any with a rating of less than 385V but at the same time higher than the 300V you recommend. Where did you get your 100kA device from?

 

Is the order of the devices I posted OK i.e. 'surge arrester' => 'transfer switch' => 'over/under voltage device'? Or should the 'over/under voltage device' go before the transfer switch? I assume that the generator output doesn't really need to be protected by such a device, but on the other hand it surely wouldn't hurt?

[Crossy]

100kA device https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867504709.html that's a 275V unit (in reality OK on a 220V supply) but 380V ones are available from the same seller. Note that these devices are wider than the smaller units.

 

We go SPD = under over = transfer (the under-over controls the transfer switch and starts the genset).