TAT latest: Elite card holders who buy a condo can stay "long term" and get work permit - but there's a catch

[wordchild]

4 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Rich people would have no interest in Thailand as they want first class facilities, first class infrastructure, a safe and secure environment, a stable political and business situation (ie their business won't be commandeered by the locals if it becomes too successful), impeccable service, a safe and secure legal system. All too often Thailand provides none of these things. Rich people who want sunshine and clean beaches already have their havens around the world, and Thailand has missed that boat by at least 50 years.

This is just nonsense! Sorry. But there are many, many rich expats who live here.

 Maybe you need get out and about more!

[sungod]

Lets have a poll, how many on this thread actually have a million spare to invest somewhere?

 

No dreamers or moaners please.

[Christie Paul]

An embarasingly unattractive and uncompetitive proposition. 

[Skeptic7]

Catch THIS! 

[wordchild]

i have heard that such a scheme was being kicked around within the Thai Government (and within TAT) for several weeks now.

My understanding is that the original proposal was that  an investment of this amount  would offer some sort of "fast track" through to eventual PR. However there has been a degree of opposition to this from the more conservative wings of the current Govt. Pretty much like a replay of the early Thailand  Elite days; ie with the original promise of the right for holders to own land in Thailand. This was subsequently withdrawn due to  opposition.

I believe that the proponents of this (current scheme)  realize that, in order for it to be significantly attractive to the wealthy people that they wish to attract, then a route to PR needs to be on offer. Not just a WP. 

We shall see where this ends up! 

Edited September 25, 2020 by wordchild

[Jack Hna]

13 hours ago, Misterwhisper said:

And Bill never came, let alone settled and invested here. Nor did Tiger Woods, another "Elite Card" laureate courtesy of the "Square Faced One". Bummer.

Bills got a decent 30million dollar property in whistler, Canada for short breaks. 

[davemos]

Pie in the sky again

[Airalee]

5 hours ago, madmen said:

You are in lala land if you think your gonna buy a million dollar condo  bigger than 50sqm in your 1st class uetopias. You missed that boat by 20 years. 

Amazing how out of touch with reality some people are. A million is not much these days when it comes to home ownership 

You’re high if you think that all a million will afford is 50sqm.  You could get a much larger condo than that (on the water) and have plenty of money left over for a lazy boy and spelling lessons.

[Eibot]

1 hour ago, wordchild said:

The whole point of this scheme is exactly NOT to attract people who need to work. As someone suggested above this is attractive to wealthy individuals who already have significant assets and income OUTSIDE Thailand who might find the ultimate lure of PR in a Tax Friendly jurisdiction worth investigating . 

My assets are coming from outside Thailand aswell.

[BestB]

Not sure if it’s been said but 

1. why elite card holder would want long stay visa when they already have 20 year visa 

2. If I invest 1 million dollars that means I have a few million more, so why would I need WP and why would I want to work?

3. Why would I pay 1 million dollars when I get 20 year visa for 30000 dollars ?

[Pravda]

13 pages of I know these rich people and I know those rich people. 

 

What a major eye rollorama

 

At the end of the day this proposal is nothing more than a fantasy and just like with elite visas time will tell. 

[DouglasTsui]

I'm an Elite Visa Member since 2018 with pride but all dreams of a happy ending up in holy smoke when i have been denied entry time and time again since july 2020. Got myself holding up in Vietnam for a couple of weeks (14days quarantine too) and got my sorry ass to Singapore yet again.Could this be a Blessing in disguise? Your guess is as good mine.I know a couple of fellow members having the same issues and have practically given up all hopes of returning.  And for the record, i did purchase a Condo Noble Revolve 2 @ Ratchada.  Anyone in urgent need for a place to crash, PM me. That's the least i can do for a fellow Human Being in crisis, which these Baboons hardly know what empathy is, much less any sense between their ears.

[uncle_tom]

Most people who get rich enough to play in this league, did so by knowing the difference between a good investment and a loss-maker.

 

You don't have to be a genius to realise that Thailand is currently awash with empty tourism-related real estate. It's also a matter of fact that Thai property owners have bad habit of leaving property empty rather than dropping their prices to meet the market, so there's unlikely to be a near-term fire sale of condos at bargain prices - at least until the banks close in. However as happened in Spain and Ireland a decade ago, the banks don't like to foreclose if it's going to force them to acknowledge a loss - 'non-performing loans' - are much easier on their balance sheets.

 

So few early property bargains, but a lousy long term outlook - who would want to buy into that?

[DBath]

With the domestic tourism shortfall being a little over a trillion baht, 24 billion baht is less than not much. Add to this 1.5 trillion shortfall for international tourism and you’ve got what I’d call a dire situation. 

[Steve Vincent]

Cost between one and two million ???????? I just want to slap him,.What about those living their 24/7 and what about those who own land and houses already  .... condos are outdated as are the government puppets ,how many families live in a condo ? Whenever I’m having a bad day,I’ll log into my account 99.9% there’s a story that amuses me 

[whaleboneman]

8 hours ago, NoComment said:

The rich Chinese will buy all of the bars and restaurants.

Goodbye to Western backpackers and tourists.

The Kingdom has relied on Western tourists, Aussies and the USA for a long time but they will all begin to seek other Asian countries.

It is beyond my comprehension why those in power are allowing the Chinese to eventually run China.

The Germans will cease to come which should be the biggest wake up for those at the top of the tree........??

Or is it just me that understands this??

I think it's just you. It's clear that the Chinese already run China.

[jpduggan]

''If the card holder subsequently invests $1 million (31 million baht) in Thailand in the following year they will be eligible for a long term stay and a work permit.''

Now that's an expensive work permit. 

[Soikhaonoiken]

What planet are these joker's from, $1 million investment just to stay in Thailand, Hahaha ????????

[Captain Monday]

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

what kind of condo is a foreigner going to buy in Thailand valued at $1 million USD???

One with a supercar glass elevator so I can park my pink Lambo in the living room

[Damrongsak]

13 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

One with a supercar glass elevator so I can park my pink Lambo in the living room

I want a condo with the underground elevator so I can park my super submarine down there. 

[donnacha]

11 hours ago, Eibot said:

If you home domicile is Thailand, than you are taxable under the Thai law. You can transfer the money legally, but you are obligate to pay tax. You probably could get away with not paying it if it's a small amount but this is not quite legal. That would be tax evasion. 

Under Thai tax laws, you do not have to pay tax on foreign income that has been in your possession for 12 months before you transfer it to Thailand. That is not tax evasion because you have fulfilled your tax obligation.

With respect, if you didn't know that, and have actually been paying taxes on income from abroad, you probably shouldn't be giving tax advice.

 

11 hours ago, Eibot said:

Nobody ever asked me for my WP in regards to tax.

No one here has suggested that anyone would.

The point of the work permits, collectively, is to strengthen the overall case of the Thai authorities that all of these foreigners are legitimately subject to the Thai tax system rather than their home country's system. That such people are notionally liable to pay at least some taxes on some income, and legally able to operate economically in the country (including being entitled to work), is an important factor in such assessments.

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by donnacha

[donnacha]

10 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

Business is certainly no guarantee in Thailand.

 

Buy a small block of condo's and rent out?

 

Do you ever read about the glut of empty places for rent?

Sure, I am aware of the problems.

As I said, the terms do not restrict the nature of your investment. It can be in any sort of business, including one you run yourself.

As this scheme is aimed at high earners who make the majority of their income online or remotely, they will be saving at least a few grand every week in taxes. That will be their primary reason for participating.

I gave the example of a small block of condos as a relatively easy business to run on the side, while also solving your own accommodation needs. While many condos lie empty, it is clear that an Internet-savvy native English speaker is better able to find tenants or Airbnb guests. There is a big difference between being a silent partner and actually putting some effort behind your investment.

Of course, right now, practically every business is an uncertain prospect, especially those geared towards Western customers or guests. Any investment in these strange times is a gamble. On the other hand, the pressure that undercapitalized or indebted businesses will be under as we head into next year with no relief in sight will mean far more fire-sales, and far lower prices for those who do have cash.

It will take Thailand time to recover but, for those who wish to escape unprecedented levels of taxation in their own countries over the next decade, and who plan to be here that long, it is actually a pretty good deal.

 

[donnacha]

8 hours ago, impulse said:

Of course, a lot of Thai tax law is crafted specifically to cater to the elite, so that little idiosyncrasy in Thai tax rules may go on forever. 

That is exactly right. A law that so greatly benefits the elites will not change.
 

 

8 hours ago, impulse said:

But I wouldn't stake my future on it.  They could simply exclude that favorable treatment for foreigners, like they seem to be doing on so many fronts.

Things do change over time but, for at least the next decade or so, the Thai elites need this to work. The best way to think about it is that they are using the happy coincidence of a tax law that benefits them to lure foreign capital into Thailand which, as the owners of the country, also benefits them.

Don't forget, all the Thai banks are carrying an insane amount of repossessed property on their books, and that is about to get far worse. They only remain liquid because they are assessing the value of all those properties at their original prices, not today's selling prices.

This accounting sleight-of-hand would be completely illegal in most other countries. If the property market plummets over the next year, it will raise some uncomfortable questions about the actual value of bank holdings.

Grabbing a few hundred thousand foreigners as they flee punitive post-Covid taxes in their own countries, and getting them each to pump a million dollars into Thailand, is the easiest way to prop up the property market while also keeping the ultra-nationalists happy that these aren't just any dirty farangs, these are "super wealthy" farang.

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by donnacha

[Winniej]

Why anyone would be bothered to Do anything in Thailand is beyond me . 
Everything that’s of any use is guarded and impossible to own or be involved in . 
invest a million and get a work permit big deal .Plus they are likely to change the rules at a drop of the hat . 

[Bangkok Barry]

8 hours ago, wordchild said:

This is just nonsense! Sorry. But there are many, many rich expats who live here.

 Maybe you need get out and about more!

I'm talking about really rich, not those with just a couple or so million dollars. Those with real money live in places such as London, Dubai, Los Angeles. Through my work I know many, many multi-millionaires, some worth 100 million or more, and I am absolutely certain that none would base themselves in Thailand.

[ThailandRyan]

A song comes to mind and it is the Pinocchio song:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DKPAR2fWHBgc&ved=2ahUKEwiqtc3DwIXsAhVKaCsKHXFsCdYQ3ywwAnoECAMQAg&usg=AOvVaw2dhKsrCNAuUfm7fCTRkwcB

Edited September 25, 2020 by ThailandRyan

[Straight8]

19 hours ago, Pravda said:

 

His posts have been nonsensical and all over the place for years. Is he really comparing Thai economy with a US one? He's comparing US investment visas with pensioners keeping 25k in a bank account? 

 

But he knows rich people ????

 

His fairytale stories about Thailand being a great place to invest have been going on for years. 

 

Funny thing how Japanese staff in my wife's company "only" gets paid 150k a month and they are going back because they are overpaid. But I'm sure he knows a bunch of thais in menagement positions making 200k ????????

 

What a fairytaleorama

Correction, he knows "many" rich people & in Thailand too. There's a difference.

 

Why can't I know any rich people?? How do you get to know all these rich people in Thailand???

[donnacha]

13 hours ago, TERMINATOR3AB said:

Donnacha   said ......was not happy  when he made his first  Million  

Ohh  what a thing to  say to all the  battlers  who  read this forum  you  are  a little  over the  top  Mate  

Love to  know your Nationally where  does  such  lack of  tact  come from

Seems  you are perfect to live in Thailand 

Maybe run for a ministerial  Position with the other  useless millionairs 

Not impressed  with your  post  at all 

Not sure what your issue is with my post.

My whole point was that, while a million dollars / 31 mbaht / £785K / €860K is a significant amount of money for anyone, it is simply not an insurmountable barrier for the type of working professionals or online business owners who would be motivated to move countries to avoid punitive tax rates.

In a discussion about whether a scheme requiring an investment of a million dollars offers sufficient value, it is entirely appropriate to talk about how much a million actually is. It was not "over the top" for me say that, in my own experience, hitting that number was far from meaning that I had made it. No one turned up to give me a complimentary top hat and monocle.

I don't know what your situation is @TERMINATOR3AB and, if you are struggling financially right now you have my sympathy but, technically, the vast majority of the members of this forum have been millionaires at some point. That might include their home, possessions, vehicles, retirement plans, and savings, but it is almost impossible for a Westerner of average intelligence to not reach a net value of USD $1m is they actually get up every morning, educate themselves, work hard, develop their skills, and avoid pitfalls such as drugs, alcoholism, and Farmville.

Sending kids to university or getting *ucked over in a divorce may wipe it out, but that doesn't change the fact: hitting that net worth at some point is not at all unusual these days.

In my case, I have blown plenty of opportunities and learned lots of hard lessons, but somehow, along the way, figured out that making money was relatively easy if that is what you actually care about. You just have consciously focus on building up your tool-belt of skills and trust that the world is desperately short of competent people.

I would argue that, starting with basic literacy and numeracy, any Westerner of average intelligence should, within six months, be making at least $100 per hour online from very happy clients and customers. Within five years of sustained effort it should be around $10k per week, and you will also be accumulating returns from investing your earlier earnings. I have no idea why so few try.

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by donnacha

[luckyluke]

As I stay regularly in Thonglor I "know" a few rich people. 

 

"Know" meaning I know where they live. 

 

There is one in particular with a few Old Timers. 

 

I spotted threw the gate a Bentley, Jaguar and Rolls Royce. 

 

On Sukhumvit 55, corner Alley 13 or 15 (I forgot) a new building(condominium) is just finished. 

 

The advertising is : "Start price only 65 million".

 

Everything is relative, so is the word "Only". 

 

[brianthainess]

Plonkers only fools and horses work