Going to fall off! Disturbing sensation on motorbike

[simon43]

I should comment that I've been riding motorcycles since 16 years old, including off-road bikes and Honda Goldwings.

 

Several months ago, I bought a Kawasaki KLX140 for riding on the roads/hills here in north Laos.  The bike has knobbly, off-road tyres, and I ride accordingly on tarred roads with these tyres, and am used to the sensation that these tyres give when riding on a smooth road surface.

 

In the past month, I have begun to feel a strange sensation when I go round corners.  It feels as if I'm going to fall off the bike!  I am taking these corners slowly on the town roads, but it is as if the steering is sticking as I turn the handlebars.  Yet when I rest this with the bike parked in my yard, I cannot feel any stickiness in the movement of the front wheel.

 

The tyres are in very good condition, with correct air pressure.  I can feel no loose movement in the steering column.  The spokes of the wheel are not loose.  No cables are inhibiting free movement of the steering.  Yet there is still this strange and alarming stickiness that requires me to firmly grip the handlebars to steer through the problem and to get round the corner safely.

 

What could it be?

[ezzra]

Hard to tell really, take it to a bike shop let them take the bike for a spin and see what they find...

[steven100]

maybe it's telling you it's time to look at care help. 

[lopburi3]

Indeed would be checking the motorist as well as the motor vehicle,  I say that as someone who has never been a MC rider but these days feels unsteady even riding on back of one and knowing I am having gradual loss of balance in even using a stepladder.  

 

Probably the bike but do be careful.

[NCC1701A]

i have the same sensation on my Kawasaki Versys sometimes just going straight down the highway at speeds 80 plus kph. sort of a vertigo like feeling and i feel like i am going to fall off the bike. 

 

 

 

 

[In the jungle]

In all seriousness could it be a problem related to the parts of your ears that sense balance and movement?

 

 

[ChipButty]

Need more Chang

[colinneil]

Just now, ChipButty said:

Need more Chang

Maybe the problem is too much Chang.????????????

[baansgr]

Has there been a drastic change in the weather temperature

[scubascuba3]

Maybe bearings of steering column, maybe a touch of vertigo 

[BritManToo]

COVID blocked my ears earlier this year, for almost 2 months off and on.

[ChipButty]

27 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

In all seriousness could it be a problem related to the parts of your ears that sense balance and movement?

 

 

What? nothing between his ears?

[Moonlover]

49 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

In all seriousness could it be a problem related to the parts of your ears that sense balance and movement?

 

 

Agreed. That would be my first 'port of call' as well. Have you had any problems such as catarrh lately @simon43? This can affect the workings of the middle and inner ear where balance sensing takes place.

 

If balance sensing is not functioning too well, when you lean into a bend there is a conflict in the brain between what the eye sees and what the balance sensing detects. This can cause vertigo.

 

 

[Matzzon]

25 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Maybe bearings of steering column, maybe a touch of vertigo 

Yes, really sounds like that but a thing that only show itself when doing a real turn with a bike that moves and the pressure that puts on the bearings.

 

Definitely nothing to fix yourself, if you don´t have the knowledge and experience. Take it to a service shop. ???? 

 

And now I also take for granted, that Chang have nothing to do with it. ????

[NCC1701A]

i would just like to add if i close my eyes the problem goes away. 

[bluebluewater]

Have someone else take it out for a spin and see what they have to say about.  Get a second opinion so to speak.

[2long]

My first job would be to try other bikes (as similar as possible) on the same roads, to see if it's you or the bike.

It could be something in the headset of the bike (top of the forks).

You did the right thing to check what you say you have checked.

Taking it to shop might not make any difference. The mechanic might want to charge you for some unnecessary work, or tell you it's fine when it's not.

Good luck.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

i would just like to add if i close my eyes the problem goes away. 

I don't think that works with women.

Congratulations, you have amalgamated with 95% of Thai scooter drivers.

[Surelynot]

Are you sure it is the bike and not you? 

 

As you get older the fluid in the semi-circular canals becomes more viscous and fools the brain into thinking you are unbalanced.

 

Just a thought.

[NanLaew]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

20 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

i would just like to add if i close my eyes the problem goes away. 

I don't think that works with women.

Congratulations, you have amalgamated with 95% of Thai scooter drivers.

Graduated with honors and now qualified to ride the big bikes.

 

Well done NCC!

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

What could it be?

Only 3 things I can think of.

1.  A worn or faulty steer head bearing.

2. Steer head bearings too tight causing tighter steering under load.

3. You. ???? ????.

[simon43]

Thanks for the advice.  It's certainly not me, nor the Chang (I don't drink).  I can actually feel the steering column sticking as I take the corner, yet cannot reproduce this effect when parked and turning the steering column by hand.  I certainly agree that a mechanic from the bike shop should take the bike for a spin to see what they think.

 

I appreciate comments about my balance/ear canals etc. I sincerely hope that such afflictions would only manifest in my dotage, (in my '90s, if at all), rather than in my early '60s).

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

I appreciate comments about my balance/ear canals etc. I sincerely hope that such afflictions would only manifest in my dotage, (in my '90s, if at all), rather than in my early '60s).

I'd agree 60's is a bit young for balance problems. You may want to try the stork balance test to verify you are OK.

https://nrpt.co.uk/training/tests/strength/standing.htm

 

My own criteria for giving up two-wheel riding will be when I no longer feel confident with my 42 kg GF riding pillion.

[JeffersLos]

On 9/29/2020 at 7:56 AM, simon43 said:

as I turn the handlebars.

Learn counter steering. 

[Issanman]

I would be checking the steering head bearings.

 

[vandeventer]

On 9/29/2020 at 8:24 AM, NCC1701A said:

i have the same sensation on my Kawasaki Versys sometimes just going straight down the highway at speeds 80 plus kph. sort of a vertigo like feeling and i feel like i am going to fall off the bike. 

 

 

 

 

To me it's two things, 1- is the tires knobies are for dirt roads only. 2- The roads in Laos as in Thailand are not good, they are not straight. They are made to last only a few years before pots develop because of the low amount of blue gravel. Also there is no drainage on the sides of the roads which makes the roads take a different shape after time. I have been riding big bikes in Thailand for 20 years and I always feel like falling off but I haven't so far. Thank God for that!

[Kerryd]

"Stickiness" is not about balance or "inner ear" symptoms.

Check your tire pressure, regularly. I find on both the Honda and the Harley that they leak air all the time, even with new tires and tubes. 
I just went to Chon Buri yesterday on the Harley. I rode from the house to a PTT station and I noticed my front end felt a bit off. I've felt that before and it was because of low pressure.
Sure enough, checked it at the gas station and I was down to 20PSI instead of the normal 36-40. Pumped them up to 37 and they felt great the rest of the trip.
A couple years ago I started off on a trip to Isaan and I thought for sure my front end was shot as it was very hard to turn or corner. Got to the first gas station and checked the tire pressure. I hadn't ridden the bike in months and didn't check the tires before I left. I was down to 10 PSI in the front. Once they were pumped to normal, everything else felt normal again as well.

I have knobbies on my Honda and yeah, they take getting used to and I do feel like there's a "drag" (which some may describe as a "stickiness"). Cornering and turning require more conscious thought now as it feels like the bike wants to heel over at a certain point (as you get to the outside of the center "knobs"). They are also noticeably louder than the stock tires.
If you've been riding on those knobby tires for awhile (especially in Laos) then maybe the "stickiness" is from the edges of the center knobs being worn enough that when you turn, the inner edge of the next set of "knobs" is making contact with the road surface creating additional "grip" (traction) that you haven't adjusted to yet. (Maybe.)

(I say "especially in Laos" as I suspect the road conditions are probably less than what we have in Thailand, which is often not that great either.)
It would be hard to replicate that feeling in your driveway though.

New tires, different tread, maybe different material composition than the normal street tires (i.e. maybe softer rubber in the knobby tires that heats up quicker which may contribute to the "sticky" or "dragging" sensation.

I liken it to something that happened awhile ago. I had my handlebars on the Harley changed. The shop installed the same size/design of bars and everything was solid.
But as soon as I tried to ride, I noticed that it didn't feel "right".
Because they had clamped the bars on where it felt right to them, not to where they used be (and where I was used to them). It was a "muscle memory" thing and was a bit unsettling. We unclamped them, changed the angle to where it felt more "natural" for me, clamped them tight again and they've been fine ever since.

(I would have gotten used to the new position. Eventually.)

As for the tire pressure. It was happening so often (losing air pressure) that at one point I changed the tires and tubes (on the Honda) as I thought they must have been defective. Turns out, it's the heat. Tires get hot, air inside expands when it gets hot, some air "bleeds" out. Apparently even with tubes. And new tires.

As it happened so often, I finally caved and bought a small air compressor and a couple good tire pressure gauges. Now when I'm loading the bike for a trip I check the pressure first and can pump up the tires if need be. About once a month I check the scooter's tires (or at the same time as I check the Harley's).

(It has gotten to the point that when I start to back the Harley out of the car port and turn the front wheel, I can tell from the sound the rubber makes on the tiles whether or not I should check the pressure. They squeal, a lot, when they are low on air.)

Honda Adventure Version ! (We were "off roading" on Khao Pai in the rain.)

[Neilly]

On 9/29/2020 at 1:57 PM, simon43 said:

Thanks for the advice.  It's certainly not me, nor the Chang (I don't drink).  I can actually feel the steering column sticking as I take the corner, yet cannot reproduce this effect when parked and turning the steering column by hand.  I certainly agree that a mechanic from the bike shop should take the bike for a spin to see what they think.

 

 

You don't mention if you've had any work done to the bike recently...have you?

 

I've had a similar problem in the past when I removed both fork legs for some new seals...when I put the fork legs back in I just did the bolts up in the headstock with a wrench...on the first test ride as I pulled out the gate I went straight on instead of turning right. When the bike was up on the stand everything felt normal and nothing was sticking...so did a search on the internet which turned up an article by Honda saying the bolts should be tightened with a torque wrench in a certain order or sticking would/could occur...I loosed off the bolts, torqued them up in the correct order and everything was fine. I am a mechanic by trade and have worked on many bikes over the years...this was the first time I've ever come across this.

[millymoopoo]

If everything on the front checks out OK including correct level of oil in the front forks, time to check the back.

Swing arm bushes, wheel spokes, wheel bearings, shocks, cush drive..!

Sloppiness of most kinds in the rear (don't go there) are much more noticeable cornering than riding straight..!

[VocalNeal]

On Piaggio MP3 the head stock roller bearings get a "notch" worn in the outer. It makes the steering sticky.

The fix is to rotate the bearing in the head stock until the notch is between rollers.

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic81084?highlight=mp3+head+bearing