American expat avoids jail for negative review - reaches settlement with Koh Chang hotel

[hellohello123]

17 hours ago, NanLaew said:

A hotel already facing challenges due to the collapse of tourism doesn't need a vindictive twerp repeatedly posting lies though. A hotel already facing challenges due to the collapse of tourism can't count on every travel advisory website surfer being as savvy as you suggest they need to be. The Thai-bash is strangely enough a very rewarding activity for some as the 11 pages (so far) on this thread can attest.

 

The internet is also no place for idiots. My opinion of Tripadvisor isn't the best since most 'advisors' aren't regular travelers. I take this from a review by some earnest but ultimately clueless western visitors to a US-owned burger and Tex-Mex place in Nha Trang, Vietnam. They slated it for it's limited choice, authenticity and comparative cost but rounded out their review with the admission that they weren't actually looking for a burger or Tex-Mex after all.  They were after some classic Vietnamese Phở but, having risen too late, found it wasn't readily available.... so they slagged off a place that they never intended to eat in anyway.

 

As for jailing as punishment, as totally disproportionate as it is, Thai law allows it.

I agree with what you are say completely

 

but "A hotel already facing challenges due to the collapse of tourism doesn't need a vindictive manager/owner if they are genuinely trying to keep existing business and bring in new ones"

 

at the end of the day, the the tourists reputation hurts his feelings and maybe his friends and family, the hotels reputiation can lead to $1000s+ in profits, plus you expect the hotel to act professionally

[hellohello123]

8 hours ago, Miami007 said:

I hope that you own a restaurant one day.. I will come and bring my own drinks. Good luck trying to bring your own alcohol into a hotel restaurant in London or New York...

If you rent a room in a hotel, you haven't bought the right to do what you want in the restaurant or kitchen.. 

Not going to Koh Chang because of 1 hotel's actions.. no comment

ive read the "if the venue doesnt have the drink I want, I am entitled to bring it in and drink it for no fee" comment a few times on this thread now!

 

how embarassing, just stinks of entitlement, i am better than you atittude,

just typical of a lot of the losers that go thailand and start thinking they are gods gift to the world

 

And what's more, they seem proud of it too

 

throw in the "if the bars didnt charge as much for a drink then I wouldnt mind paying" comment crew

 

no wonder us foreigners have such a low reputation

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by hellohello123

[StevieAus]

On 10/9/2020 at 9:13 AM, Solinvictus said:

I too have studied dogs. Sometimes they put their tail down. He works here too though. Damn, they are all about 'making a wrong a right.' Petty, in my view.

 

But IMO, it is still a big inconvenience to not be able to bring in me own drink.

Of all the restaurants I have visited in Thailand I have never yet had one refuse to let me bring my own wine to drink with a meal.

Some charge a corkage most do not.

We always make a point of asking beforehand as after all it is their restaurant.

I have found them more flexible here than in my own country Australia.

Edited October 10, 2020 by StevieAus
Omitted a word

[SiSePuede419]

Does anyone know what the MOST DELICIOUS Thai food is?

 

Wienerschnitzel. ????

Edited October 10, 2020 by SiSePuede419

[hellohello123]

On 10/9/2020 at 1:13 PM, Solinvictus said:

I too have studied dogs. Sometimes they put their tail down. He works here too though. Damn, they are all about 'making a wrong a right.' Petty, in my view.

 

But IMO, it is still a big inconvenience to not be able to bring in me own drink.

Inconvenient????!!!!

 

Wow, that's probably the most entitled comment I've read all year.

 

Next time I'm out at a Japanese restaurant,  I might just walk into the kitchen and start cooking my own pizza becuase its inconvenient they don't have it on the menu

 

 

[Blumpie]

They should have just given him a spanking live on television.  

[mtls2005]

With an outstanding Felony Arrest Warrant (Four counts) awaiting him in Jackson County, Kansas City, MO

 

https://jacksoncountyprosecutor.com/DocumentCenter/View/726/WBarnes_Redacted?bidId=

 

will he be deported? Or will he return to teaching Thai children?

 

 

[charliebadenhop]

Wow, an outstanding arrest warrant puts it all in context for me!

 

This guy seems like he might be competing for idiot of the year!

 

If so, he might have the early lead!

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, LeoCesar said:

I chose to believe the expats story.

What? The bit where he finally and publicly admitted that he lied?

[teacherclaire]

When can we see the movie Mr. Barnes's Hotel? 

 

Does he still have his teaching gig? The allegations from home were not the best as far as i remember. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by teacherclaire

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, hellohello123 said:

but will the hotel/tourist board ever realise this?

or will they care?

Well, it is likely they will see a drop in business, hopefully long term. And they will blame it on Covid, or something else. But, the Sea View Hotel in Koh Chang will not soon be forgotten. And the infamy is not the kind you wish for. They deserve it. Not worth pissing off a customer over corkage. It is such a petty thing. 

[rott]

15 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Well, it is likely they will see a drop in business, hopefully long term. And they will blame it on Covid, or something else. But, the Sea View Hotel in Koh Chang will not soon be forgotten. And the infamy is not the kind you wish for. They deserve it. Not worth pissing off a customer over corkage. It is such a petty thing. 

No the petty thing is to refuse to pay it because you are a bit <deleted>. 

The hotel dropped it from the bill in an attempt to keep the peace. 

The charge is not unheard of, Jools in Soi 4 always had the corkage charge prominently displayed. 

[rkidlad]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

What? The bit where he finally and publicly admitted that he lied?

Was that before or after he was jailed and threatened with prison? I always forget that part. 

[Sakeopete]

Faced with possible time at a the notorious Bangkok Hilton I would blame the spirit of my dead mother too. International media will see it for what it is. Honestly it may add fuel to the fire that should have been let to burn itself off.

[spidermike007]

23 minutes ago, rott said:

No the petty thing is to refuse to pay it because you are a bit <deleted>. 

The hotel dropped it from the bill in an attempt to keep the peace. 

The charge is not unheard of, Jools in Soi 4 always had the corkage charge prominently displayed. 

Is that factual information, or something the hotel has said to the media, in a hopeless attempt to get back some of their ruined reputation, and remove some of the dirt from their faces?

 

I understand corkage. I am a wine collector, and attend alot of wine dinners in the US. Usually at very nice restaurants. The corkage is something we work out in advance. It is very rare for us to get charged corkage, however we are a large group, and spend alot on food. I get the need for a corkage fee. I truly wonder that their attitude was. This guy could have been a sourpuss, with a bad attitude, or he could have had a very good reason to be as angry as he was. Will we ever know?

[mikeymike100]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

What? The bit where he finally and publicly admitted that he lied?

Having a choice of going to a Thai Jail for a couple of years or apologizing for something he may or may not have done, isn't really a choice is it??

[DBath]

5 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Or, alternatively, don't embark on a vendetta of multiple malicious online reviews including fake accusations of slavery  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well yes, that would be the proactive thing to do. In this case the offender clearly was not proactive. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

3 hours ago, Silencer said:

You seem incapable of separating the person from the bigger picture. Many of us might think the guy is an ass and someone we would not choose to associate with but writing bad reviews should not end with you going to prison. Businesses have dealt with very bad, wrong, lying reviews in many ways...countering them in their responses, asking for them to be removed, etc....not taking the person to court with a possible jail term.

 

I see today....the New York Times, when contacted by him about his "apology", can see through the fog. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/09/world/asia/thailand-review-american-apology.html

 

Hi …. thanks for your assessment of my analytical abilities. However, I am very capable of seeing the bigger picture, and unlike yourself, I am also able to differentiate between a bad review and a campaign of multiple, malicious, fake reviews. I have only lived here for 5 years, but I have, in that time, traveled widely and stayed at upwards of at least 40 different hotels. I have left many reviews on TA, Agoda and Booking.com, including 3 negative reviews. My critical reviews were honest, constructive, and backed up by photos of dirty bathrooms, broken facilities etc. I received excellent responses from all 3, with apologies and thanks for pointing out the defects.

 

It’s hilarious how many apologists for this cowboy, describe his malicious one man vendetta as a “bad review” …… if you had read all the info available about this issue, you would know that over a period of a month or so, the hotel tried to engage with him by email, messages on TA, and phone calls. He reject all attempts to mediate with them, until as soon as he was arrested, when he called them crying like a toddler.

[hellohello123]

34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Is that factual information, or something the hotel has said to the media, in a hopeless attempt to get back some of their ruined reputation, and remove some of the dirt from their faces?

 

I understand corkage. I am a wine collector, and attend alot of wine dinners in the US. Usually at very nice restaurants. The corkage is something we work out in advance. It is very rare for us to get charged corkage, however we are a large group, and spend alot on food. I get the need for a corkage fee. I truly wonder that their attitude was. This guy could have been a sourpuss, with a bad attitude, or he could have had a very good reason to be as angry as he was. Will we ever know?

and this is where intelligent discretion comes into play, anyone thats intelligent and a good manager/service provider, its really really common sense to a degree

 

a bottle of wine only serves 5 people , also depends on the number of people, are you a regular? what are you likely to spend on food, what are the implications if you say no, are you likely to get more return business

 

in this American guy's case he is bringing a bottle of gin, which is 20+ drinks, chances are he isnt eating anything, hes coming in with only 2-3 people, he didnt have dinner at that establishment, hes behaving like a cheep charlie <deleted>,

charging corkage or outright refusal is the first two sensible choices

[DBath]

13 hours ago, LeoCesar said:

I chose to believe the expats story.

I dont believe the hotel story for a minute.

I will treat them like they have C19!

Well, it kind of doesn’t matter, now that he’s confessed, does it?

[spidermike007]

23 minutes ago, hellohello123 said:

and this is where intelligent discretion comes into play, anyone thats intelligent and a good manager/service provider, its really really common sense to a degree

 

a bottle of wine only serves 5 people , also depends on the number of people, are you a regular? what are you likely to spend on food, what are the implications if you say no, are you likely to get more return business

 

in this American guy's case he is bringing a bottle of gin, which is 20+ drinks, chances are he isnt eating anything, hes coming in with only 2-3 people, he didnt have dinner at that establishment, hes behaving like a cheep charlie <deleted>,

charging corkage or outright refusal is the first two sensible choices

But, the reality is, we do not have the facts. It could have been a bottle of wine. The patron could have been abused by management and the staff. It is likely the "info" about the corkage being waived is fake news, by management. I am always more inclined to believe a customer, than a hotel. Especially a hotel in this position, that they have put themselves into. There is so little we really know about what went on here.

 

I will double down here. It was a huge error on the part of the hotel, and total corruption on the part of the police, and a huge over reach on the part of the government for having this law in the first place. Alot of foolishness here, and the Sea View Hotel in Koh Chang is paying the price for it. Hooray!

Edited October 10, 2020 by spidermike007

[hellohello123]

28 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

But, the reality is, we do not have the facts. It could have been a bottle of wine. The patron could have been abused by management and the staff. It is likely the "info" about the corkage being waived is fake news, by management. I am always more inclined to believe a customer, than a hotel. Especially a hotel in this position, that they have put themselves into. There is so little we really know about what went on here.

 

I will double down here. It was a huge error on the part of the hotel, and total corruption on the part of the police, and a huge over reach on the part of the government for having this law in the first place. Alot of foolishness here, and the Sea View Hotel in Koh Chang is paying the price for it. Hooray!

 

its hard to believe anything from either parties,

i believe its been confirmed its a bottle of gin,

as i previously said, bringing in a bottle of wine is a lot less drama than a bottle of gin

 

 

[Banana7]

Just avoid Koh Chang altogether.

 

Wesley is just taking the easy least costly way out the situation.

 

[aroiaroi]

5 hours ago, Silencer said:

I see today....the New York Times, when contacted by him about his "apology", can see through the fog. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/09/world/asia/thailand-review-american-apology.html

 

That's hilarious. The news report have painted the hotels management team as absolute fools.

The customer has issued an apology

Quote

in a statement filled with stilted official language reminiscent of a forced confession.

 

Quote

“The hotel has forgiven me and agreed to withdraw the complaint,” the statement said. “I would like to sincerely thank the hotel and its staff and take this opportunity to announce this news to the general public.”

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by aroiaroi

[sucit]

23 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The review was extreme. And there was obviously alot of animus on both sides. And do we know how the resort really treats their employees? I have seen many Burmese workers here facing significant abuse, condescending behavior and ugliness from their superiors and employers. So, we do not really know. 

 

But, who really had the most to lose?

 

1. Thailand and the reputation of Thai tourism. 

 

2. This resort. Major egg on their face. 

 

3. In the long run, the tourist lost the least. He will be soon forgotten. Not the incident. 

How on earth would you know the review was extreme, if you were not there.

 

Even if you were there, people perceive things differently.

 

Fault lies 100% with the hotel here. Nothing could be more obvious.

[dunroaming]

22 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

None of which warrants the kind of actions the hotel took in any way shape or form. The vast majority of people reading the reviews and comments would have seen that the reviewer in question was not a reliable source of information, especially when other reviews were taken into account.

 

Again, 'tis the internet, no room for fragility, face or ego here. 

 

Only a petulant child would seek jailing someone over something so trivial and petty. 

I used to stay in hotels about 50% of the year until fairly recently and reviews do make a difference when you book somewhere for the first time.  You get to know the reviews that are just bull manure and sour grapes as the reviewers usually fall into a similar category.  For years Trip Advisor didn't monitor the reviews and there were some disgusting examples, including rival hotels and restaurants putting up false negative reviews. 

[DJ54]

10 hours ago, Don Chance said:

You are expected to become Thai, speak the language, learn the customs.  Don't you expect the same from immigrants to your country?

Myself personally don’t expect it ... most of my younger years where spent 

just south of Los Angeles is multi cultural. To me as an American think Non American families are much closer and help each other it’s a good quality..

 

On the flip side there are many Americans that complain constantly people are people if we learn from our mistakes good...

 

 

 

[John Drake]

11 hours ago, Don Chance said:

This is another issue of culture shock. Let's remember why we like Thailand: because it has a different culture. And when in Rome do as the Romans.

 

Farangs think that the world is like or similar or should be similar their countries, multicultural. But Thailand isn't. It is a mono-culture. You are not invited to immigrate to Thailand. You are not invited to live separately in your own cultural bubble. You are expected to become Thai, speak the language, learn the customs.  Don't you expect the same from immigrants to your country?

 

Farang should not try and push their culture onto foreign countries they visit. Even if you believe in freedom of speech, freedom to dance naked at a temple, freedom to smoke weed etc. Thailand is not a culture that appreciates individuality. If everyone does what they want then your neighbour become the adversary, this is the chaos we have in the west.

 

All good points. You've made a solid argument. Now, don't you think it is fair that the rest of the world, especially in the West be made thoroughly aware of the specifics and pitfalls of this Thai "mono-culture?" Seems to me that according to your thinking the BBC, NY Times, Guardian, CNN and others are doing what you want: warning Westerners of how they can run afoul of Thai defamation laws. If anything, Thailand should be happy that the application of their laws to foreigners has been made known through such a high profile event.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, sucit said:

How on earth would you know the review was extreme, if you were not there.

 

Even if you were there, people perceive things differently.

 

Fault lies 100% with the hotel here. Nothing could be more obvious.

I do agree that the hotel drew first blood, and they deserve anything and everything bad that comes their way now. However, the description of slave labor was a little extreme. Was it not? 

[Redline]

18 hours ago, brakar said:

I'm not so sure. In a few months, this will be forgotten. Maybe some of you living in Thailand will remember it and not visit the hotel. But it seems that some are curious and want to spend the night there. I constantly read in newspapers and watch TV about many tourists who are dissatisfied with staying in hotels in other countries, including Spain and Greece. Tourists do not stop going there for that.
 

I think many people were unaware of these ridiculous laws that can put you in jail for saying something true about a place or person or business...in Thailand.  I’m not saying this guy did what he did correctly.

That turns some people off, just like the lack of Democracy, racism, human trafficking, can turn people off of a country.

I don’t think anyone cares about the review itself