'America is back,' Biden says, as he dumps Trump's foreign policy approach

[dunroaming]

Let's not lose track with what has happened here.  People generally didn't vote for Biden because they felt he would make a great president, they voted for him to get rid of the abysmal Trump.  Now that box has been ticked, we will see just how effective  Biden will be as POTUS.

[wwest5829]

11 hours ago, Tug said:

I’m well aware of the damage trump Fox News and the like have done I will not give up on my country and imo a lot of those voters reacted to trumps fear propaganda not out of respect for trump

 

My thought, supported by at least the economic statistics is that the political policies of both major political parties over the past 30-45 have caused increased economic pressure on the working middle class which forms the vast majority of the participatory democracy’s population. With the growth, over the time period of the income/wealth disparity gap we have come to a critical juncture of disfunction.

 

Many of those in the current working middle class were raised in a time witnessing the, at first tremendous growth of the US economic income and now, the slow decline of the paramount economic position of the United States post WW II. For those of us in the “Baby Boomer” generation, we are filled with despair generally at seeing the usual growth of economic wellbeing through our work efforts resulting in less and less retirement age security. For our children, we see little hope, under current economic policy conditions to be able, through their work to afford the housing, access to medical care, access to improving their knowledge skills through higher education.

 

There is justified frustration/anger resulting from the economic stress and this evidences itself through our social stress. Not seeing hope, those who supported Trump in 2016, wanted to believe in his promises to address the needs and clean out the swamp of those who had brought on the economic stress (unfortunately, they did not read/study Trump’s historical background or they would have seen a record of a man far out of his depth to be given such a government position).

 

What alternative was offered by the other major party candidate … more of the same policies that have brought on the stress. Unless the mass of American working middle class citizen voters turn out to support a raising of the minimum wage, instituting a national healthcare program like all other developed democratic countries provide for their citizens, lowering the costs of gaining more knowledge through higher education (benefiting both individuals and American business) and protecting Social Security/Medicare … I predict the madness will continue as there will be no needed relief for the working middle class upon which and hope of a participatory democracy depends.

Edited November 25, 2020 by onthedarkside
font made readable

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Trump might have raised the stock market with the covid vaccine coming out soon and the jobs numbers increasing all the time Please enlighten me and tell me what Biden has done in the 47 years that he served the government? As for Boris he make a left hand turn that he may regret.

Yes, the work Trump did on the covid vaccine was brilliant. Without his leadership, no vaccines would have been developed because a vaccine is such a revolutionary idea.  And what's really remarkable is that even though Trump and his supporters mostly claim the danger posed by the vaccine is highly exaggerated, he authorized funding for it anyway and his supporters are celebrating this not very important achievement.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

Yes, America's back to the swamp. 

I know what you mean. He's chosen for his Secretary of the Treasury a former Goldman Sachs trader who then went on to buy mortgage packages consisting of people who were in default because of the financial crisis. And this same person believes in going easy on bankers and wall streeters - the very same people who precipitated the 2008 crash and..oh wait a minute that was Trump's Secretary of the Treasury, Steve Mnuchin.

But it's almost a sure bet that Biden will fire lots of Inspectors General..oh wait a minute that was Trump.

But I bet that Bide will appoint in 3 years more lobbyists than Obama or Bush did in 8. Oh wait a minute...that was Trump.

But you can be damn sure that Biden will appoint oil and gas lobbyists to run the EPA and have a couple of EPA heads fired for ethical reasons...oh..wait a minute, that was Trump.

In fact, Biden plans to turn over pretty much all of the various enforcement agencies to the control corporate lobbyists and shills...oh wait a minute..that was Trump.

And Biden will definitely refuse to put his business holdings in a blind trust...oh wait a minute....

[CorpusChristie]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You mean the opposite of chilling in front of the TV with a burger in one hand and playing Twitter using the other hand while a pandemic is raging and people die? 

 

  We are talking about a Nation , rather than individual people

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Please enlighten me and tell me what Biden has done in the 47 years that he served the government? 

His many achievements have been listed several times by posters on various threads on TV, so I'm not going to list them again, however trump supporters would have overlooked them because of a form of "cognitive dissonance" which makes everything that trump does, magnificent, whilst looking past his lies, deceit, vitriol and name-calling as well as his ignorance, amongst other things.

 

So if you really want to be enlightened, go and look for them yourself!

[billd766]

4 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Laughable. It just means we are back to subsidizing Nato, lowering tariffs for China, exporting jobs, importing H1Bs, fighting in Afghanistan forever, fighting in Syria, fighting in Yemen, fighting in West Africa, all using the highly successful model of intervention developed in Libya. Not a "hand up" but lots of tax payer dollars going to foreign "hands out." 

How wonderful of you to warn us all of what will happen in the next 4 years.

 

Can I assume that you have a direct contact with President Elect Biden and his team and that they have released this informaton to you for general release exclusively to TVF readers?

 

Or is it that you actually have no facts at all, no links and this is only your personal opinion?

 

YMMV

[billd766]

3 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

So my best guess is we will be back in multiple wars and daily bombings then too.

No different than the last 4 years then.

[Isaan sailor]

10 hours ago, vandeventer said:

He is not quite there yet, and the changes he want's to make are good for who? Open borders, America not first, oil and gas gone with the wind. And many many more things to hurt America and the rest of the world.

Can’t wait for the Green New Deal.  Will we have solar powered airliners?

[wwest5829]

10 hours ago, JonnyF said:

He hasn't even become President yet. So maybe better hold off on your assessment of how he handles domestic problems. 

 

However this thread is about foreign policy, and his interference overseas will not be welcomed by many. 

Better hold off on domestic assessment but jump right in when it refers to foreign problems? Hmm, methinks a bit of consistency strengthens your argument?

[wwest5829]

10 hours ago, vandeventer said:

He is not quite there yet, and the changes he want's to make are good for who? Open borders, America not first, oil and gas gone with the wind. And many many more things to hurt America and the rest of the world.

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt“ ... attributed to Lincoln

[CorpusChristie]

32 minutes ago, billd766 said:

How wonderful of you to warn us all of what will happen in the next 4 years.

 

Can I assume that you have a direct contact with President Elect Biden and his team and that they have released this informaton to you for general release exclusively to TVF readers?

 

Or is it that you actually have no facts at all, no links and this is only your personal opinion?

 

YMMV

 

  Hasn't Biden stated he intends to reverse numerous decisions /policies Trump made ?

[onthedarkside]

A derogatory trolling post followed by some bickering exchanges have been removed.

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Hasn't Biden stated he intends to reverse numerous decisions /policies Trump made ?

And you have knowledge of which ones those are?

[Walker88]

5 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Laughable. It just means we are back to subsidizing Nato, lowering tariffs for China, exporting jobs, importing H1Bs, fighting in Afghanistan forever, fighting in Syria, fighting in Yemen, fighting in West Africa, all using the highly successful model of intervention developed in Libya. Not a "hand up" but lots of tax payer dollars going to foreign "hands out." 

NATO? You mean the org that brought stability and peace to Europe and the US and was arguably the cushion that allowed the massive GDP growth since WWII?

 

All Americans are paying for those China tariffs, as the cost is passed to the consumer. Perhaps, however, if trade policy is more forward thinking, we won't need the Socialist farmers we developed under 45. Almost $30 billion paid by the taxpayer, and unlike the bailouts to banks and GM under Obama, the gifts to Socialist farmers will never be repaid.

 

As for exported jobs...do you mean like 45 ties" maga clothes?  All made in China. But seriously, most jobs were sent to a way station with the next stop oblivion, as automation and technology is killing them.

 

If we're lucky, however, we'll get the kind of stock market and job growth we had under Obama-Biden, both of which dwarf anything under 45. Average GDP under Obama-Biden also tops 45's average GDP.

 

Mostly we'll get competence again, and go back to building solid relations with those who share our ideals and shun those who stand against American ideals, which is to say the thugs and dictators 45 embraced.

 

Oh, and in Yemen, perhaps we'll hold saudi arabia accountable for the slaughter they have done in yemen using US weapons, and we'll hold MbS accountable for dismembering Jamal Khashoggi.

 

It's morning in America, and mourning in the bygone world of 45.

[Showtime]

11 hours ago, SomchaiCNX said:

I bet the next president will be a Female ???? Probably with her last name being Trump ???? .

 

Her name will be Kamala Harris and she takes office in January 2021.

[Showtime]

Unfortunately stupid voters couldn't separate Trump's words / tone from what he accomplished.  I can't even think of one thing his administration did that I disagree with.  In fact, I wish he did more, but at least he did what he promised while campaigning.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Showtime said:

Unfortunately stupid voters couldn't separate Trump's words / tone from what he accomplished.  I can't even think of one thing his administration did that I disagree with.  In fact, I wish he did more, but at least he did what he promised while campaigning.

You mean like his tax cuts for corporations? That resulted mostly in stock buybacks and actually lower business investment? Oh, and it accelerated increases in the deficit at a time when the economy was doing well. That was his major legislative accomplishment.

 

[Showtime]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You mean like his tax cuts for corporations? That resulted mostly in stock buybacks and actually lower business investment? Oh, and it accelerated increases in the deficit at a time when the economy was doing well. That was his major legislative accomplishment.

 

 

Corporate tax rates were lowered so companies wouldn't continue to leave the USA because tax rates in the USA on corporations were so much higher than the were in the rest of the world.  Lowering these tax rates actually resulted in the deficit growing less than if nothing was done. 

 

Also stock buybacks resulted in stock prices going up which helped all investors.  It had positive or at worst no effect on business investment.

 

Nice try.  Want to try again?

[candide]

10 minutes ago, Showtime said:

Unfortunately stupid voters couldn't separate Trump's words / tone from what he accomplished.  I can't even think of one thing his administration did that I disagree with.  In fact, I wish he did more, but at least he did what he promised while campaigning.

Lol! The list of his failed promises is a long one!

Such as:

- Mexico will pay for the wall,

- public deficit will be reduced

- trade deficit with China will be reduced

- trade deficit with other countries will be reduced,

- etc....

[billd766]

2 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Hasn't Biden stated he intends to reverse numerous decisions /policies Trump made ?

What people say they will do when they are not in a position of power to change things might well be different when they get control.

[placeholder]

52 minutes ago, Showtime said:

 

Corporate tax rates were lowered so companies wouldn't continue to leave the USA because tax rates in the USA on corporations were so much higher than the were in the rest of the world.  Lowering these tax rates actually resulted in the deficit growing less than if nothing was done. 

 

Also stock buybacks resulted in stock prices going up which helped all investors.  It had positive or at worst no effect on business investment.

 

Nice try.  Want to try again?

Really? What was the actual rate that corporations were paying in the US vs. the statutory rate? And can you link to proof that lowering those tax rate actually resulted in the deficit growing less? You made the assertion, now back it up.

 

And as for bringing back jobs to the USA?

All Employees, Manufacturing (MANEMP) | FRED | St. Louis Fed

See any big change from Trump's policies? I don't.

As for stock buybacks helping investors...84% of stocks are owned by the top 10% of Americans sorted by wealth.

The Richest 10% of Americans Now Own 84% of All Stocks

The Richest 10% of Americans Now Own 84% of All Stocks | Money

 Stock buybacks are a scam. They are tied to the fact that CEO's and top executives get bonuses based on stock prices. Until the Reagan administration, stock buybacks were actually illegal because they were considered to be stock price manipulation. Which they are since the stock prices have no relation to the actual financial health of the company. What's more, as you may recall, lots of US companies did use their reserve capital to buy backs. And when the Covid 19 pandemic hit, they didn't have enough financial resources to tide them over. So they turned to the government for assistance.

Stock Buybacks Made Corporations Vulnerable. Then The Coronavirus Struck.

Stock Buybacks Made Corporations Vulnerable. Then The Coronavirus Struck. (forbes.com)

 

Trump promised that the cash returned to the USA would be used to increase business investment. Ultimately, business investment actually fell. And after the sugar high of the first year of Trump's tax cuts when GDP growth reached 2.9%, it fell in 2019 to 2.3%,  The trump administration was predicting 4% and even 5%.

Edited November 25, 2020 by placeholder

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Showtime said:

Unfortunately stupid voters couldn't separate Trump's words / tone from what he accomplished.  I can't even think of one thing his administration did that I disagree with.  In fact, I wish he did more, but at least he did what he promised while campaigning.

Yes of course he did what he promised while campaigning........

 

And the completed wall looks very nice.

 

And the cheques he received from Mexico to pay for it have boosted the coffers, yeah right!

 

And the tariffs he put on goods manufactured in Mexico, well, guess what, the American consumer paid for those.

 

And the access he wanted/promised to Canada's dairy market was an absolute fizzer, getting perhaps 1 to 2% more than previously, which could have been negotiated across a table rather than via threats.

 

And the tax cuts to benefit the poor folk, well they never benefited from any of this, however the fat-cats and trump cronies did.

 

And draining the swamp! What a joke, he just added more lowlife's and unqualified people so they would support him in anything he did, and Ivanka as an "adviser" has to be the joke of the century.

 

Not only has this idiot lied to the American people and a lot of the rest of the world, but he has completely disrespected the office of POTUS and made America the laughing stock of the world as regards a supposed advanced democracy – – what a joke that idiot is/was, and how he was ridiculed worldwide.
 

[Showtime]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Really? What was the actual rate that corporations were paying in the US vs. the statutory rate? And can you link to proof that lowering those tax rate actually resulted in the deficit growing less? You made the assertion, now back it up.

 

And as for bringing back jobs to the USA?

All Employees, Manufacturing (MANEMP) | FRED | St. Louis Fed

See any big change from Trump's policies? I don't.

As for stock buybacks helping investors...84% of stocks are owned by the top 10% of Americans sorted by wealth.

The Richest 10% of Americans Now Own 84% of All Stocks

The Richest 10% of Americans Now Own 84% of All Stocks | Money

 Stock buybacks are a scam. They are tied to the fact that CEO's and top executives get bonuses based on stock prices. Until the Reagan administration, stock buybacks were actually illegal because they were considered to be stock price manipulation. Which they are since the stock prices have no relation to the actual financial health of the company. What's more, as you may recall, lots of US companies did use their reserve capital to buy backs. And when the Covid 19 pandemic hit, they didn't have enough financial resources to tide them over. So they turned to the government for assistance.

Stock Buybacks Made Corporations Vulnerable. Then The Coronavirus Struck.

Stock Buybacks Made Corporations Vulnerable. Then The Coronavirus Struck. (forbes.com)

 

Trump promised that the cash returned to the USA would be used to increase business investment. Ultimately, business investment actually fell. And after the sugar high of the first year of Trump's tax cuts when GDP growth reached 2.9%, it fell in 2019 to 2.3%,  The trump administration was predicting 4% and even 5%.

 

Rich people own stocks.  The rest of us own mutual funds which means your argument doesn't hold any water.  Want to try again?

[bartender100]

China will just about be the world leader in every aspect in the next 10 years plus

[heybruce]

41 minutes ago, bartender100 said:

China will just about be the world leader in every aspect in the next 10 years plus

Yeah, it got such a good start on the job while the US under Trump retreated from global leadership and responsibilities.

[heybruce]

17 hours ago, yellowboat said:

The swamp is back.   How is Hunter going to effect China policy?   Biden has no policy, just a return to business as usual. 

"The swamp is back."

 

The swamp never went away, it just got bigger and deeper under Trump.

 

"How is Hunter going to effect China policy?"

 

He won't.  Never has, never will.

 

"Biden has no policy, just a return to business as usual."

 

Trump is the one who never had a policy, unless you count "America alone" as a foreign policy.

[heybruce]

16 hours ago, vandeventer said:

He is not quite there yet, and the changes he want's to make are good for who? Open borders, America not first, oil and gas gone with the wind. And many many more things to hurt America and the rest of the world.

Try getting your information from the real world, instead of the paranoid fantasy sources you use.

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, Showtime said:

Great, we are back to the do nothing, no balls policies that don't work.  The USA needs to call in a chit from the Israelis and have them wipeout those Chinese made islands in the territorial waters of The Philippines.

You want Israel to wipe out Chinese made islands on the other side of Asia?  You are seriously detached from reality.

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Personally I don't want US "leadership". If the nations of the world can't co operate in the UN without America, we are all IMO in harms way.

All I want is a treaty with the US to come to our aid if a superior power tries to take us over. No other country has the military power to do so. What I don't want is the US starting wars all over the place.

Do you prefer Chinese leadership?  If the US continues its "go it alone" hostility to international affairs, do you think China will not take advantage?