Retirement Extension Refused.

[Joinaman]

20 minutes ago, tinca tinca said:

so they are NOT LEGAL thats it....very simple.....

are the brown envelopes and backhanders to immigration LEGAL ???

[tinca tinca]

5 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

are the brown envelopes and backhanders to immigration LEGAL ???

its all wheels within wheels yu should know this

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

you may very well be correct, knowing my friend he had no chance of getting one, and he will have no chance from me either in a couple of months time, if I can't get my extension from my local office for 1,900 Baht then I may be forced to go another route.

 

Personally I would do this if your friend did nothing wrong:

https://menzzoo.com/page250.html

[Peter Denis]

I read the thread and your friend claims:

- he kept +800K on Account 1 for more than 3 months from the day of 1-year permission to stay approval;

- after those 3 months he moved +400K to Account 2, while also keeping +400K on Account 1;

- more than 2 months before his current permission to stay application, he topped up Account 2 to +800K.

So he never went below the required minimum tressholds of funds kept on his bank-accounts.

If he did the above and

- both of these Accounts were either saving accounts or fixed deposit accounts, and

- both were on his personal name and

- he also has all the bank evidence (bank statement, 12 month transaction statement, account 2 updated on date of application).

then indeed he did nothing wrong and is simply being extorted by the Immigration officer handling his application.

It might be a matter of a dim immigration officer (but his preparedness to provide 'help' to have the so-called problem fixed, suggests otherwise). 

Anyway, you friend should go back to his IO and insist on talking to the officer in charge of that IO, providing all the above evidence re him meeting the financial requirement.  Such that it is at least clear WHAT the problem is that gets him denied his 1-year extension application.  Most probably it will be the Imm officer looking for some easy extortion money from an uncommon financial situation, but which is totally OK and in compliance with all IO regulations.  The officer in charge of the IO can then play the shadow-game of telling the officer that denied his application that the regulations do allow it, and that it was some kind of misunderstanding from that officers part.  Allow them the face-saving, and do some brown-nosing to the officer in charge with fake smiles and excuses from your friends part to get what you are entitled to without succumbing to corruption practices.

[foreverlomsak]

2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

then indeed he did nothing wrong and is simply being extorted by the Immigration officer handling his application.

all correct and I do believe the above is the case, however the senior officer (the one that signs off on your stamp) was listening and appeared to be enjoying watching my friend squirm

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd say right there is the problem. Money should be in one account.

Immigration officers are bureaucrats, not a friendly uncle. IMO they only care that the correct procedure is followed, and are not interested in going off script.

Jomtien allows multiple accounts for the  bank method. But it is more complicated so not recommended.

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

all correct and I do believe the above is the case, however the senior officer (the one that signs off on your stamp) was listening and appeared to be enjoying watching my friend squirm

Wow, that's quite a situation then.  Imo your friend still needs to go back to get a clear explanation about what is wrong with his application that it is denied and what is needed to get it approved.

The problem is of course that 20.000 THB probably isn't worth the hassle of administratively relocating to a different province in order to apply there for the 1-year extension and then relocating back to his current province.

However, if he is thoroughly disgusted by his current IO's behavior, he might just do that (let me know if you need details on how to go about doing that, which for a 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement isn't very difficult to do).  He might also rise a big stink at Immigration Headquarters for such blatant extortion at his current IO, but considering that he doesn't even want to tell the place of that rotten IO, that's probably wishful thinking.

[fishtank]

3 hours ago, Pilotman said:

because it hasn't worked? ????

Because he did it wrong

[bkk6060]

The richest people I know ( all in Bangkok) all use agents.  They more then qualify, but just don't want to deal with the paperwork or wait.

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, fishtank said:

Because he did it wrong

What did he do wrong?  From all the posts in the thread I cannot determine what he did wrong.

> See my post 4 places above this one, summarizing the process he followed and confirmed by OP as correct. 

[fishtank]

6 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

What did he do wrong?  From all the posts in the thread I cannot determine what he did wrong.

> See my post 4 places above this one, summarizing the process he followed and confirmed by OP as correct. 

The op has come up with so many explanations as to what he did or didn't do that it is very hard to work it out.

If the op qualified he would have been issued with his extension.

Immigration do not set traps to trick people.

 

Perhaps if the op told us what offices he actually used someone who deals with that office might be able to tell us their experiences.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by fishtank

[condobrit001]

23 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

The richest people I know ( all in Bangkok) all use agents.  They more then qualify, but just don't want to deal with the paperwork or wait.

Clearly they have more money than sense. Agents are simply middlemen used to bribe immigration officers. (apart from those who just walk you through the process for a small fee)

[mtls2005]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

all correct and I do believe the above is the case

 

Yeah but you're (sorry your "friend") asking the IO to check 150 days, adding/verifying two balances. I mean if they're both 400,000 every day then maybe not so bad.

 

The question is why do this? 

 

What did your friend do last year? Are the accounts with the same bank?  Different banks? If the same, maybe ask if the bank can provide an official summary of both accounts always being greater than 800,000.

 

I'd reassemble the supporting bank documentation to show compliance, maybe with a summary letter, then go back, maybe with the highest status Thai friend/acquaintance you can call on to accompany you, and see if, on the promise of consolidating a single account next year, you can be approved this year. Otherwise what are the options? Ask if there are any options, other than traveling to Chonburi?

 

I'd also check on some FB groups re: visa advice for Thailand, and especially one for your city/town.

 

 

[biggles45]

"and legally responsible agent"

I got a good laugh at this. I have 3 friends who use the income method and due to the baht strength do not legally qualify for an extension. They all use agents, different ones, and have no problems. Its just a way for IO to rake in the money, a bit like the 'free' Residence Letter. 

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Yeah but you're (sorry your "friend") asking the IO to check 150 days, adding/verifying two balances. I mean if they're both 400,000 every day then maybe not so bad.

The question is why do this? 

...

I largely agree with your comments. 

But the reason he did this (opening a 2nd bank-account for the funds) is fairly common.

The first bank-account you open when having entered Thailand is often a 'Savings Account'. 

Such a savings-account is handy for daily transactions, but of course if you also keep the required funds there for your extension-applications, you run the risk of inadvertently slipping below the 800k/400K tressholds.  So, many retirees also open a Fixed Deposit Account just to keep the Funds for their extensions there, and not having to worry about shorts on that account that would result in not meeting the financial requirements set by IO for their stay.

Now of course there will always be a moment for you to switch from that Savings Account to your Fixed Deposit Account to prove you meet the financial requirements.

What the OP's friend did was the best way to do it.  Keeping the +800K for more than 3 months, then transferring +400K to the Fixed Deposit Account while at same time keeping +400K on the first account so that there is no 'gap' due to transaction.  And then more than 2 months before applying for his next extension topping up the Fixed Deposit Account to +800K from the savings account. 

Only if you are prepared to have both +800K on your savings account and at same time have +800K on a Fixed Deposit Account, you will be able to meet the 12-month financial requirement by IO with ONE account.  But the large majority of retirees will do it like the OP's friend has done. 

And that is totally fine as there is no requirement that the funds need to be in one single account when applying for your extension of stay.  Obviously it will be a bit more 'work' for the officer handling the application to check that you met the requirements over the full preceding 12-month period, as he would have to check both the savings account balance during the first part of the year, and your fixed deposit account balance during the remainder. 

I agree that this is the equivalent of Rocket Science for your regular Immigration officer that needs a calculator to determine that 100 THB + 200 THB is 300 THB, so it would be appreciated by your local IO when doing the above to make an overview of the balance over the full year with the two accounts, and not simply dump a stack of bank papers from 2 accounts on their desk.

[Nanaplaza666]

6 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

no agent in his locality, and why should somebody have to travel hundreds of Km, spend 3/4 nights in a hotel and pay maybe as much as 20,000 for something that is not hard to compile and should only cost 1,900 Baht in the local office.

If it wasn't that hard to compile , you wouldn't have been asking these qeustions and he would have had it done already without any problems . 

[GreasyFingers]

3 hours ago, fishtank said:

Perhaps if the op told us what offices he actually used someone who deals with that office might be able to tell us their experiences.

Maybe if you knew a little about the geography of Thailand you could work it out from the OP's name. Have never had a problem with the office but the staff and managers do change a bit.

[digger70]

8 hours ago, polpott said:

In Jomtien, for the 65k baht/month method you are required to prove that your income is derived from a pension.

So what , he's using the 800K  Method .

No need for Proof of income or foreign pension.

[Bangkok Barry]

8 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

no agent in his locality, and why should somebody have to travel hundreds of Km, spend 3/4 nights in a hotel and pay maybe as much as 20,000 for something that is not hard to compile and should only cost 1,900 Baht in the local office.

 

Why? Because this is Thailand and if they say jump, you jump. They wear the uniform, and because of the rule that 'it is at the discretion of the officer' they can legally do and demand anything they want with  no comeback whatsoever. That's just the way it is. I believe anything that appears to be unfair can be appealed and someone on this forum will know how to go about that.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Bangkok Barry

[thailand49]

22 hours ago, fishtank said:

Not sure we are getting the full story here.

Combination method? Maybe something wrong with the income proof.

Combination of two bank accounts?

Not clear.

So true!  Friend third hand information hearsay! I read two pages questions and answers and I can say if I was the IO, I would also have refused the application!  based on the answers I was lost and had no idea what was what being done by the applicant.????????????

Edited December 7, 2020 by thailand49

[Golden Triangle]

9 hours ago, tinca tinca said:

i know how the system works here....OKAY

You obviously don't otherwise you wouldn't make silly remarks like that.

[EricTh]

9 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

nope, he was well aware of that rule.

If 'your friend' really do have a valid case, you can do one of two things.

 

1. Write a letter to the head of immigration or someone higher up that is not at the front counter, there should be an email address or phone. In Chiang Mai, there are these things printed near the front door.

 

2. Go to another province to apply, in case plan A fails.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by EricTh

[foreverlomsak]

I would suggest to one of the global administrators that they consider closing this topic I think it has achieved all it was ever liable to.

[ThaiVisaCentre]

10 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

no agent in his locality, and why should somebody have to travel hundreds of Km, spend 3/4 nights in a hotel and pay maybe as much as 20,000 for something that is not hard to compile and should only cost 1,900 Baht in the local office.

 

Many agents can service 100% via post, depending on the circumstances.

 

But please ensure that the agent is real, and trustworthy before engaging.

[foreverlomsak]

Thanks for the responses one and all, even the unhelpful ones, my friend has now been granted his extension, and nobody understands the initial rejection all was in order.

It's my turn to try soon but I'm not going to complicate things with 2 bank accounts (my friend had valid reasons for going that way) and I will have details of my pensions with me but Proof no chance only on-line statements available and it's not enough for a married extension let alone a retirement.

Thanks again.

[fishtank]

20 minutes ago, ThaiVisaCentre said:

But please ensure that the agent is real, and trustworthy before engaging.

Does such an agent exist?

[ThaiVisaCentre]

4 minutes ago, fishtank said:

Does such an agent exist?

 

There are still a few ????

[liddelljohn]

possibility is that moving money inside thailand from one bank to another has violated the foreign source  of funds requirement ,,, Im sure the money originated overseas in the past but I have seen immigration get arsy  babout transfers from  on thai bank to another

[khunPer]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm pretty sure that isn't allowed- has to be continuous in one account, but tell me if I'm wrong. I never had that problem.

Never been a problem before to have funds split in more than one account, or to move bank (withdraw/deposit same day), but some immigration offices have slightly different rules.

[khunPer]

4 minutes ago, liddelljohn said:

possibility is that moving money inside thailand from one bank to another has violated the foreign source  of funds requirement ,,, Im sure the money originated overseas in the past but I have seen immigration get arsy  babout transfers from  on thai bank to another

No foreign source required for retirement deposit method, you could have changed from work permit to retirement.