UK tells EU: back down by Sunday night or we'll walk

[bannork]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

But but but, it does not matter, two choices!

It matters 100%.

A crucial decision such as this requires much more than a one time binary choice.

But there you go, turkeys voting for Xmas, or New Year in this case 

 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, bannork said:

It matters 100%.

A crucial decision such as this requires much more than a one time binary choice.

But there you go, turkeys voting for Xmas, or New Year in this case 

 

Not to me it doesn't nor to democracy, two choices bannork.

[bannork]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

Not to me it doesn't nor to democracy, two choices bannork.

No, the choices are just not good enough, simply dumb, no evaluation of the post referendum relationship, as we see now.

How about asking the British people, do you prefer no deal or a settlement?

After all, Boris won the election by promising an oven ready deal that would get Brexit done. 

 

 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Mindless stupidity of the Leavers. 

Trying to relive the Imperialist dream.

 

I wonder who will run out of insults first?

Remainers have shown themselves to be full of them for the past five years. Are you almost finished now?

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, bannork said:

No, the choices are just not good enough, simply dumb, no evaluation of the post referendum relationship, as we see now.

How about asking the British people, do you prefer no deal or a settlement?

After all, Boris won the election by promising an oven ready deal that would get Brexit done. 

 

 

The British have been asked, twice in fact and on both occasions and gave Boris a whopping mandate to get Brexit done. Don't overthink things bannork or clutch at straws, leave or remain was the question, two choices.

Edited December 14, 2020 by vogie

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Maybe. The talks would still continue. My bet is on (in this order):

 

1. Some mini barebones agreement, followed by endless additional negotiations; 

 

2. No agreement at all, followed by endless additional negotiations; 

 

3. Some sort of extension of the transition period, to allow for more endless additional negotiations. 

 

Or, to summarize, there will be endless negotiations either way. 

I’ll take No 2 please and absolutely not a No 3. 

[CorpusChristie]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

I must say we see few new claims here and I love that one ???? 

1. have you got any sources?
2. if the WA was indeed the oven-ready deal that was promised :
   1. if it was "oven-ready" why did it take so long, why was it delayed again and again in the course of several years?
   2. Why did Boris Johnson renege on it?

 

Brexit withdrawal agreement => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_withdrawal_agreement

 

 

  Do stop with this nonsense .

On 3 rd November 2019 , Boris stated that if he got voted into power to become the next UK PM , he had an "oven ready" deal to get the UK out of the E.U .

  In the next General election on 12 th December 2019 , he got voted into power .

On the 30 th January 2020 , the UK left the E.U .

He did what he said he was going to do and it took him 6 weeks to do it .

 

[CorpusChristie]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Tory claims that Boris Johnson's "oven-ready deal" only referred to the Withdrawal Agreement have been disproven by the re-emergence of a video from the last general election.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/westminster-news/boris-johnson-oven-ready-brexit-deal-6631776

 

..............Apart from that isnt the speech where he claimed he had an "oven ready deal" , he made the oven ready deal speech the previous week and in that speech , he was talking about leaving the E.U 

[JonnyF]

43 minutes ago, robblok said:

Its not the truth at all, if you exceed EU norms there is no problem. What your saying makes no sense what so ever. Where did you study. If you have higher standards you comply with lower ones automatically. The EU has never forced anyone to have LOWER standards. 

 

It makes no sense at all. So in short its not a red herring its the fact you just don't have the standards or you don't want to increase them when laws change. I really wish Brexiteers would be brighter. 

 

You can never be punished for being better then a standard. Do you really think if a lower output of pollution makes a problem ? Damm you guys really live in an alternate reality. 

In answer to your question I studied at Greenwich University which is one of the top 5 Universities in the UK for my field.

 

We have no desire to follow the EU. It's simply a political control tool. For example they could over regulate on areas that don't affect them at all but which have a huge impact on the UK. We would be forced to follow them. For what? To allow them to fish in our waters and keep their massive trade surplus tariff free? Yeah that sounds awesome. 

 

It's all about protectionism. Controlling their precious single market protectionist racket. No thanks, it's time you guys accepted that game is over. Time to find another mug. Maybe Turkey can replace us? We're over it.

[CorpusChristie]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1372243/Boris-Johnson-resign-prime-minister-Brexit-no-deal-EU-Sir-Roger-Gayle-twitter

Tory civil war: Boris Johnson told to RESIGN if he fails to reach trade agreement with EU
A TORY MP has demanded Boris Johnson resign as Prime Minister if he fails to reach a Brexit trade deal with the EU before the end of the year.

By DAN FALVEY, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
PUBLISHED: 10:08, Mon, Dec 14, 2020 | UPDATED: 10:08, Mon, Dec 14, 2020

Sir Roger Gale, North Thanet MP, has broken ranks with his Party to call on Mr Johnson to stand down if he cannot deliver on a deal.

 

The veteran MP wrote on Twitter: "If Mr Johnson fails to reach an acceptable trade agreement with the EU the Prime Minister will also have failed the people of the United Kingdom.

 

"As a lifelong member of the Conservative Party, I believe that Mr Johnson's position as Prime Minister would be untenable.

 

  Worth pointing out the Sir Roger Gale is a Remainer and doesnt want to leave the E.U. 

 

Gale was opposed to Brexit prior to the 2016 EU membership referendum.^[10]

 

Roger Gale - Wikipedia

 

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Its not the truth at all, if you exceed EU norms there is no problem. What your saying makes no sense what so ever. Where did you study. If you have higher standards you comply with lower ones automatically. The EU has never forced anyone to have LOWER standards. 

 

It makes no sense at all. So in short its not a red herring its the fact you just don't have the standards or you don't want to increase them when laws change. I really wish Brexiteers would be brighter. 

 

You can never be punished for being better then a standard. Do you really think if a lower output of pollution makes a problem ? Damm you guys really live in an alternate reality. 

 

  We in the UK have got out Covid vaccinations made and people are being vaccinated .

The E.U are still waiting to pass E.U regulations to get the vaccine approved .

Do hurry up, people are dying .

 https://www.politico.eu/article/pressure-mounts-on-eu-regulator-to-approve-coronavirus-vaccine-quickly/

[JonnyF]

12 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  We in the UK have got out Covid vaccinations made and people are being vaccinated .

The E.U are still waiting to pass E.U regulations to get the vaccine approved .

Do hurry up, people are dying .

 https://www.politico.eu/article/pressure-mounts-on-eu-regulator-to-approve-coronavirus-vaccine-quickly/

Shouldn't take long. A few alternative sessions from Brussels to Strasbourg, forming a few more rules and regulations to exclude non EU countries, dozens of chauffeur driven cocktail parties and the agreement of all 27 "states". 

 

Should be a breeze. I'm sure 87 year old Heinze in his Munich care home can wait.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

Craven cowardice of the Remainers. Cowering with their EU comrades. 

Your man threatened to ‘walk’, midnight came and went and he’s still here and you have the laugh out loud effrontery to accuse ‘Remainers’ of cowardice.

 

Away with you and your blatant projection, and if you can get Johnson out of his fear freeze, take him with you.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[candide]

39 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  We in the UK have got out Covid vaccinations made and people are being vaccinated .

The E.U are still waiting to pass E.U regulations to get the vaccine approved .

Do hurry up, people are dying .

 https://www.politico.eu/article/pressure-mounts-on-eu-regulator-to-approve-coronavirus-vaccine-quickly/

As mentioned several times, emergency authorisations are allowed under EU regulations. Nothing prevents other EU countries to do the same. They don't do it because they prefer not to.

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Shouldn't take long. A few alternative sessions from Brussels to Strasbourg, forming a few more rules and regulations to exclude non EU countries, dozens of chauffeur driven cocktail parties and the agreement of all 27 "states". 

 

Should be a breeze. I'm sure 87 year old Heinze in his Munich care home can wait.

I’m not sure what a ‘chauffeur driven cocktail party’ is but it sounds fun.

 

Perhaps the handful of tax shy billionaires and multiple billionaires who funded Brexit know?!

 

I suspect the hedge fund managers amongst them are organizing one while you play your willing part of regard for them.

[Tofer]

4 hours ago, RayC said:

No, it's you Brexiters who are relying on your Crystal Balls. You have traded the certainty of the Single Market and Customs union for some cloudy, undefined bright new tomorrow.

 

Sorry, not this time around. I'm not going to join your remainer pity party diatribe again, for another 100 odd pages of pointless defeatist rhetoric.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Tofer

[Surelynot]

Here we go...

[bannork]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

The British have been asked, twice in fact and on both occasions and gave Boris a whopping mandate to get Brexit done. Don't overthink things bannork or clutch at straws, leave or remain was the question, two choices.

Well, Boris seems to be having a problem getting Brexit 'done'. The over ready deal isn't ready. Industry, financial services, farming are all pleading with the government for a deal. 

No deal is unacceptable.

 

 

[Rookiescot]

11 hours ago, JonnyF said:

It's about many things, of which uncontrolled immigration is one.

 

Of course it's possible to wish your country gains controls of it's borders and immigration policy while living 100% legally in another country that has control of it's borders and immigration policy.

 

You think living legally, paying tax and following the strict Thai policy on visas etc. as an expat in Thailand means you have to support some kind of free for all, uncontrolled, Utopian, open borders policy for the UK? How do you reach such a conclusion?

 

Why are you conflating illegal immigrants and legal immigrants?

Legal immigrants to the UK largely pay their taxes. They cannot qualify for benefits for three months so the vast majority come here with a job already lined up. Many are seasonal workers who arrive, pick the crops and then go back home again. Now that your utopian dream has ended the opportunity for Romanians to come to the UK and pick the crops who is going to do it?

The Brexit voting, poorly educated, unwashed masses sitting on their backsides claiming benefits? No chance you will get them doing it. 

I suggest all you plastic patriots here on TVF get your backsides back to old blighty and start working those fields.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

The British have been asked, twice in fact and on both occasions and gave Boris a whopping mandate to get Brexit done. Don't overthink things bannork or clutch at straws, leave or remain was the question, two choices.

 

But hes not getting Brexit done is he?

Hes still not come to terms with the fact all the stuff he promised during the referendum is not deliverable.

Still wants the cake and eat it deal he said we could have. The stuff you voted for.

No deal was not on the ballot paper. Only the choice between what the remain campaign had promised and what vote leave had promised.

Turns out vote leave promises were all lies but 48% of us were clever enough to figure that out.

52% not so much.

[Rookiescot]

20 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Sorry, not this time around. I'm not going to join your remainer pity party diatribe again, for another 100 odd pages of pointless defeatist rhetoric.

That sounds like defeatist talk. 

[Rookiescot]

So yet ANOTHER of Johnsons deadlines came and went and hes still begging the EU for a deal.

All these arguments put forward by Brexiteers are asinine. This talk about respecting UK sovereignty. Hey you guys knew the EU's position before the referendum. They told you all what you would need to give up in order to access the single market as a third country. 

Instead you guys chose to believe the meaningless slogans. You chose to believe a man sacked twice for lying. You chose to believe a charlatan like Farage. Or that sleekit Gove.

All those guys care about things like continued access to tax havens not whats in the best interest of the UK.

Then you all doubled down by voting for them again in a general election because they had an oven ready deal.

We are well and truly down the rabbit hole now. Or up a certain creek without a paddle.

Still bluff and bluster will get us through eh? I mean its worked so well so far. 

[jak2002003]

So now the deadline has come and gone why aren't 'we walking' out?

 

The PM not true to his word? 

[partington]

So Johnson has clearly been the one to back down, by agreeing to the ratchet agreement that allows the EU to impose tariffs on the UK if they evade following EU standards in a way that facilitates unfair competition with the EU.

 

Mon 14th Dec

"A post-Brexit trade and security deal could be sealed as early as this week after Boris Johnson made a key concession over the weekend, the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has told the bloc’s ambassadors in Brussels.

Barnier said the prime minister’s acceptance of the need for a treaty-level mechanism to ensure fair competition as regulatory standards diverge over time had unlocked the talks. "https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/14/brexit-trade-deal-possible-within-days-after-johnson-concession-says-eu

 

The question is, how will he frame his backing down by Sunday night as actually the EU backing down, when he has in effect agreed to doing what the EU wanted all along, and he said was unacceptable?

 

Wed 9th Dec

"The main hurdle is seen by both sides as the EU’s demand for an “evolution” or “ratchet” clause to ensure that as one side upgrades its standards, the other is not able to enjoy a competitive advantage.

Before flying to Brussels from RAF Northolt, Johnson told the Commons that the EU had tabled terms no British prime minister could accept. “Our friends in the EU are currently insisting that if they pass a new law in future with which we in this country do not comply or don’t follow suit, then they want the automatic right to punish us and to retaliate,” he said."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/09/boris-johnson-and-eu-agree-to-extend-brexit-talks-for-another-72-hours

[oldhippy]

5 hours ago, oldhippy said:

So who has the highest standards? Does somebody have more information?

 

Standards concerning safety, ingredients, pesticides, labour legislation, respect for nature, free competition, etc.

No answer from either side so far.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

No answer from either side so far.

Oddly enough the EU and the UK have the same standards at the moment. 

[vogie]

47 minutes ago, bannork said:

Well, Boris seems to be having a problem getting Brexit 'done'. The over ready deal isn't ready. Industry, financial services, farming are all pleading with the government for a deal. 

No deal is unacceptable.

 

 

No deal is acceptable to the voters that voted for it. Remember, two choices.

Edited December 14, 2020 by vogie

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Oddly enough the EU and the UK have the same standards at the moment. 

Good point!

And what are the intentions, as engrained in the oven ready deal?

 

[Scott]

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[Surelynot]

EU tells UK: back down by Sunday night or we'll walk