House impeaches Trump after U.S. Capitol siege; his fate in Senate hands

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, Jim1000 said:

Was there ever a swamp to drain in the first place  ?

 

Yes.  And it's bigger and deeper than before thanks to Trump.

[FritsSikkink]

47 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

More daft posturing. The guy will be out in a week, just let it be. All that will happen now is more violence and potentially more death from both left and right. You don't broker peace with an opposition followers by canonising Trump in the eyes of his supporters.

There is no need for brokering peace with terrorists. If they break the law they will be jailed.

[J Town]

5 minutes ago, Jim1000 said:

Was there ever a swamp to drain in the first place  ?

 

Is this sarcasm? A joke?

[Neeranam]

7 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

An even more important aspect about this article of impeachment was the firm clause that bars Trump from taking any [elected/appointed] public office in the future. 

That would be a sad day for the rest of the world who love the modern day "Dallas". 

[ChouDoufu]

5 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Someone told me today if they were to impeach him he’d be stripped of the wage he’d get after getting out of office and he wouldn’t be provided with security until the end of his days. Don’t know if it’s true, though.

 

see "former presidents act"

 

https://www.everycrsreport.com/files/19980605_98-524_5719c7e830226aec8a17505871ced06bcaf84b13.pdf

 

if he resigns, or is impeached but not convicted, he keeps his benefits.

 

if convicted, he loses all benefits, although congress would probably vote to continue the security detail.

Edited January 14, 2021 by ChouDoufu

[ChouDoufu]

4 hours ago, Walker88 said:

This is just the beginning. mcconnell might delay bringing the impeachment to the Senate for trial, but it would then come under the Dem-controlled Senate next week. Getting 67 votes to convict is difficult, but if there is even a hint of more terrorism by 45's base, it will become easier. Also, the vote requires a super majority of those present, so if some repubs 'vote' with their feet, it makes it easier to get 67%.

 

Sure conviction votes from repubs seem to be Sasse, Romney, Murkowski and Thune. Likely include Shelby, Collins and Burr. Portman might be in that 'likely' group. McConnell is still deciding, as his goal is to rebuild a Party and his vote would be based on how to resurrect from the ashes something that could resonate with voters.

 

If other repubs show their true colors (100% self-serving), then we could add hawley, cruz and rubio, since all fancy themselves POTUS candidates in 2024 and would like to have 45 out of the way for good.

 

Conviction is possible.

 

45 is up against it regardless. His self-pardon, if he does it, will fail in the courts, as the US is not a monarchy. A self-pardon, theoretically, would allow President Biden to execute 45 then say 'pardon me'. Obviously we don't want that kind of power and non-accountability in the hands of anyone. Because 45 alienated pence, even if 45 resigns before next Wednesday, pence is unlikely to pardon him. pence also has ambitions for 2024, so he, too, would want 45 out of the way.

 

AG Garland is likely to pursue Seditious conspiracy charges against 45, ruby, 45, jr and Rep brooks. A host of civil suits will also be aimed at 45. Then there's NY State and Georgia, both of whom have investigations ongoing against 45. NY still awaits 45's tax returns, but given the law ("shall provide"), the new Treasury Sec and IRS Chief will likely give NY State those tax returns next Wednesday afternoon.

 

Banks have deserted 45 and are likely to call in loans. He also has at least $300 million due in 2021, and DB has already stated they will not refinance. 45 doesn't have the cash, so expect bankruptcy #7. What he owes and what he will need to pay in legal costs dwarfs even what he was able to grift off his base with his fake fraud claims and small print that allows him to do whatever he wants with any contribution less than $5000.

 

Adding more salt in the wounds the Govt of Scotland is investigating his purchase of Turnberry and other golf courses in Scotland, and if 45 cannot produce evidence of the source of the funding, Scotland can seize all of those assets. 45 might not even be able to enter Scotland, as several parliament members have produced a Bill that puts 45 on a terrorist watch list and prohibits him from entering the country.

 

I suspect 45 will look on 2020, the year he got hammered in the election, as 'the good ole days'.

 

oh, so claiming maralago as a residence wasn't just to (illegally) vote in florida?

 

it was to prevent loss of "primary residence" under bankruptcy.

 

that's winningly clever.

[J Town]

6 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

oh, so claiming maralago as a residence wasn't just to (illegally) vote in florida?

 

it was to prevent loss of "primary residence" under bankruptcy.

 

that's winningly clever.

Supporting ANYTHING 45 does is anything BUT clever. His supporters all got played (except for the billionaires which I guarantee are not on this forum!).

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

The anti Trump crowd in DC has become totally unhinged and the American people see it.  An over emotional reaction to a speech where Trump said he wanted a peaceful protest.  A long trial in the Senate will only help Trump and hurt Nancy and gang. More facts will come out. Pelosi, operating on emotion only, has guaranteed Trump's exoneration and reelection in 2024.

The anti-Trump crowd has become unhinged?  As opposed to the calm and rational pro-Trump crowd that stormed the Capitol building?  You've got to be kidding!  Or trolling.

 

Why would the Senate trial be long; there is only one impeachment count and the evidence is obvious and fresh in everyone's memory.

Edited January 14, 2021 by heybruce

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Get rid of the hate speech and misinformation from the right, and the left will accordingly back down.  Easy.

I haven’t seen any widespread misinformation by the left. And certainly not that “we are living on a flat earth controlled by Hugo Chavez and a group of aliens eating little children” gaga-doodoo. 
 

 

[GSFISM]

8 hours ago, polpott said:

This isn't a given. First the Senate must uphold the impeachment by 2/3rds majority, then an application to the Senate can be made to bar him from holding Federal office for life which requires a simple majority to pass, which would almost certainly pass now the Democrats hold the Senate.

 

McConnell is privately advocating this as it would wash that man right out of their hair, essential if the currently fractured Republican Party is to reunite and move forward as one.

 

It would also serve to remove any hopes of his base that their glorious leader will make a comeback. The Trump cult is a personality cult, remove the leader and the cult dies.

 

 

The Tea Party movement began in 2009 during Obama's first term..Unfortunately it was hijacked by Republican swamp critters.. The movement itself went on to elect Trump. It lives on as near 75 million Americans voted for Trump picking up a notable percentage of minorities and Democrats along the way..Even if Trump goes down they will find a replacement..To many Americans are fed up with the antics of DC..It would not surprise me to see another third party movement  

[Berkshire]

3 minutes ago, GSFISM said:

The Tea Party movement began in 2009 during Obama's first term..Unfortunately it was hijacked by Republican swamp critters.. The movement itself went on to elect Trump. It lives on as near 75 million Americans voted for Trump picking up a notable percentage of minorities and Democrats along the way..Even if Trump goes down they will find a replacement..To many Americans are fed up with the antics of DC..It would not surprise me to see another third party movement  

Sure, that'd be good.  A third party....the Trump party.  That would ensure that the Republicans (and the new Trump party) never win another election again. 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

More daft posturing. The guy will be out in a week, just let it be. All that will happen now is more violence and potentially more death from both left and right. You don't broker peace with an opposition followers by canonising Trump in the eyes of his supporters.

You also don't broker peace by forgiving someone who basically attempted a coup. 

A message needs to be sent and that message is extremism in any form will not be tolerated. Violence will be punished according to the law. Those attempting to overthrow a democratically elected government will face the full force of the law.

NO ONE, not even the POTUS himself is above the law. This needs to be shown to the country and indeed the world. 

[natway09]

Although I can never see an "Ex President" ever going to jail in these times would be good 

if gets the tag "can never stand for public office again.

Job done senate

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, natway09 said:

Although I can never see an "Ex President" ever going to jail in these times would be good 

if gets the tag "can never stand for public office again.

Job done senate

Of course not normally and I agree the odds are against it, but if any U.S. president ever does get sent to the hoosegow it would be him. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

You also don't broker peace by forgiving someone who basically attempted a coup. 

A message needs to be sent and that message is extremism in any form will not be tolerated. Violence will be punished according to the law. Those attempting to overthrow a democratically elected government will face the full force of the law.

NO ONE, not even the POTUS himself is above the law. This needs to be shown to the country and indeed the world. 

Yes there need to be consequences. There was a terrorist attack on democracy incited by this U.S. president. If that is let go, then they basically won. 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

Let it go in the same way the Trump acolytes let the lost election go?

 

PH

I get your point though it's flawed. Trump did lose the election yet he claimed he won. Trump did incite a terrorist attack on democracy. All the democrats are insisting on (and thankfully a growing number of republicans) is that there be consequences for that under the rule of law. In other words there is no moral, legal, or ethical equivalence between those two things whatsoever.  

Edited January 14, 2021 by Jingthing

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, J Town said:

One more time:

I was moving out of the family house in a week. Today, I pushed my grandma down the stairs, killing her. My parents want to call the cops and hold me accountable for my actions. I tell them what will that do to help unify the family? See how that works?

 

 It looks like you're attempting to jump to "healing" and "unity" without passing through "accountability" and "consequences."

Please go back and finish "accountability" and "consequences" before trying to load "healing" and "unity."

 

your analogy is wrong.

 

you tell the cops it's pointless to arrest you.  it's too late to prosecute because by that time you'll have already moved into a new apartment.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

I use to live in a small, rural town in the US.  I was in the bank and overheard a heated exchange going on. 

 

It was an older white guy, young Asian gal on his arm, arguing with bank employees that he had every right to send money to this Nigerian because he was going to get 20,000 USD.  It was guaranteed. 

 

More people started chiming in, but he wouldn't budge.  He was sure he'd get money by just wiring over a few hundred dollars.

 

Dumb and dumber.  Just like some of Trump's supporters.

That is very funny but you got to feel for people that have legitimate reasons to wire money to Nigeria.

[onthedarkside]

A number of flame comment, off-topic and bickering posts have been removed, along with replies.

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, J Town said:

It coming to light some Republican politicians led groups throughout the capitol building, pointing out the best places to terrorize. If this is so, it is textbook treason and should be dealt with as such.

Death penalty? 

[J Town]

2 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

your analogy is wrong.

 

you tell the cops it's pointless to arrest you.  it's too late to prosecute because by that time you'll have already moved into a new apartment.

Here, I'll simplify the analogy.

 

Trump is going away.

Trump did bad. VERY bad.

People capable of critical thinking want to hold him accountable.

People who drank the Koolaid say, "No, peace & love."

 

Easy peasey?

[J Town]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Death penalty? 

I'm against that. As harsh as, though, just below hanging.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, J Town said:

I'm against that. As harsh as, though, just below hanging.

Me too but I was wondering if that was the penalty for treason. 

[Phulublub]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I get your point though it's flawed. Trump did lose the election yet he claimed he won. Trump did incite a terrorist attack on democracy. All the democrats are insisting on (and thankfully a growing number of republicans) is that there be consequences for that under the rule of law. In other words there is no moral, legal, or ethical equivalence between those two things whatsoever.  

For the avoidance of doubt, I was not advocating Dems break the law just because the Tumpists did so.  I am suggesting that they do not ignore those actions,but take lawful steps to combat them.

 

PH

[J Town]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Me too but I was wondering if that was the penalty for treason. 

I'd have to look it up, but I DO know the death penalty IS on the table for treason but during time of war. I believe Congress hasn't declared war since Vietnam because the gubmint has to pay more to wounded vets in time of war. We have conflicts now, not wars.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Me too but I was wondering if that was the penalty for treason. 

Despise Trump as I do, I don’t see a case for treason, even the Rosenbergs were not charged with treason.

 

Conspiracy to sedition and incitement of a coup are more likely.

[J Town]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Despise Trump as I do, I don’t see a case for treason, even the Rosenbergs were not charged with treason.

 

Conspiracy to sedition and incitement of a coup are more likely.

trea·son

/ˈtrēzən/

noun

the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

 

I dunno, looks like treason to me.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It will be interesting to see whether the fallout from the Trump inspired insurrection and resulting impeachment ends up falling more broadly on some Republicans in the House of Reps.

 

Some House Democrats Have ‘Real Concern’ GOP Colleagues May Have Aided Capitol Attack

 

A growing number of House Dems are calling for an investigation into whether their GOP colleagues aided Trump’s supporters during the Capitol riot.

 

WASHINGTON — A growing number of House Democrats are calling for an investigation into whether their Republican colleagues aided President Trump’s supporters who violently stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 in an effort to overturn the results of last year’s election. 

 

Rep. Cedric Richmond, D-La., told Yahoo News that many of his Democratic colleagues are discussing the possibility Republican House members played a role in the attacks. 

 

“I would hope no member did this, but the truth is there are more questions than answers; what kind of communications did people have with members? Did members give them a heads up about certain things like which entrances to use or other intelligence before or during the attack?” Richmond asked, adding, “That’s a real concern and I’ve heard many people talk about that.”

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/house-democrats-concern-republicans-riot-capitol_n_5fffa4dec5b6c77d85ecbc9f

 

 

Democrats demand investigation of whether Republicans in Congress aided Capitol rioters

 

Even as Democrats on Wednesday impeached President Trump, they turned their attention to allegations that Republican members of Congress encouraged last week’s attempted insurrection, possibly providing help that enabled the mob who stormed the Capitol.

 

“Their accomplices in this House will be held responsible,” Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) said in a speech during the impeachment debate, without mentioning specific members or allegations.

 

In the days since the Jan. 6 attack, immediately preceded by Trump’s remarks at a rally, a number of Democrats have pointed to speeches, tweets and videos that they have said raised questions about whether the attackers may have been inspired or helped by Republican members of Congress.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/republicans-capitol-rioters/2021/01/13/9737a336-55e2-11eb-a931-5b162d0d033d_story.html

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It will be interesting to see whether the fallout from the Trump inspired insurrection and resulting impeachment ends up falling more broadly on some Republicans in the House of Reps.

 

Some House Democrats Have ‘Real Concern’ GOP Colleagues May Have Aided Capitol Attack

 

A growing number of House Dems are calling for an investigation into whether their GOP colleagues aided Trump’s supporters during the Capitol riot.

 

WASHINGTON — A growing number of House Democrats are calling for an investigation into whether their Republican colleagues aided President Trump’s supporters who violently stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 in an effort to overturn the results of last year’s election. 

 

Rep. Cedric Richmond, D-La., told Yahoo News that many of his Democratic colleagues are discussing the possibility Republican House members played a role in the attacks. 

 

“I would hope no member did this, but the truth is there are more questions than answers; what kind of communications did people have with members? Did members give them a heads up about certain things like which entrances to use or other intelligence before or during the attack?” Richmond asked, adding, “That’s a real concern and I’ve heard many people talk about that.”

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/house-democrats-concern-republicans-riot-capitol_n_5fffa4dec5b6c77d85ecbc9f

 

 

Democrats demand investigation of whether Republicans in Congress aided Capitol rioters

 

Even as Democrats on Wednesday impeached President Trump, they turned their attention to allegations that Republican members of Congress encouraged last week’s attempted insurrection, possibly providing help that enabled the mob who stormed the Capitol.

 

“Their accomplices in this House will be held responsible,” Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) said in a speech during the impeachment debate, without mentioning specific members or allegations.

 

In the days since the Jan. 6 attack, immediately preceded by Trump’s remarks at a rally, a number of Democrats have pointed to speeches, tweets and videos that they have said raised questions about whether the attackers may have been inspired or helped by Republican members of Congress.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/republicans-capitol-rioters/2021/01/13/9737a336-55e2-11eb-a931-5b162d0d033d_story.html

 

There may be a perfectly innocent explanation for the following but I'm sure it's going to be investigated:

 

Panic buttons in Ayanna Pressley’s office had been ‘torn out’ before the Capitol riot, chief of staff says

As rioters began to storm the Capitol building in Washington, D.C., last week, Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley’s staff barricaded the doors to their office — and made a startling discovery.

“Every panic button in my office had been torn out — the whole unit,” Sarah Groh, Pressley’s chief of staff, recalled to The Boston Globe.

The buttons had been used before, and Groh said she had not switched offices since then. 

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2021/01/13/ayanna-pressley-office-panic-buttons

 

Pressley is one of the  original members of The Squad along with AOC, Omar, and Tlaib and has been a target for Trump and the alt-right.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, J Town said:

trea·son

/ˈtrēzən/

noun

the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

 

I dunno, looks like treason to me.

That’s not what the law says about treason.

 

Trump’s actions wrt the failed coup are far more aligned with sedition than treason.

His actions wrt to certain foreign nations, and one in particular, are another matter.