Use monthly transfer to satisfy income requirement

[tjansen]

Hello, I have a question about replacing the former Embassy letter with monthly transfers, and I am hoping to get the usual informed assistance from Thaivisa Forum members.

 

-I am a US citizen, currently using 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for my visa retirement extension.

-I had used the incomer voucher letter from my US embassy for a few years until that option was removed.

-I live in Ratchaburi province and use the Immigration office in Ratchaburi.

-QUESTION 1: Can I personally transfer, monthly, at least 65,000 baht into my bank account in a single transaction each month for a period of twelve months initially, then continuing on into the future, to satisfy the income requirement for retirement extension of my visa?

-QUESTION 2: Is it permissible to transfer a portion of that money back out of my account ongoing?

 

I am hoping to hear from anyone with either direct experience doing this or certain knowledge of someone doing it. Thank you very much in advance.

 

Sincerely,

Tom Jansen

 

[ubonjoe]

You can apply for a extension by showing 12 months of transfers from abroad that are 65k or more.

After the 65k baht is in your account you do what your want with it. I suggest if you want to transfer some of it out of the country I suggest you do a domestic transfer to another account before doing a foreign transfer.

[tjansen]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You can apply for a extension by showing 12 months of transfers from abroad that are 65k or more.

After the 65k baht is in your account you do what your want with it. I suggest if you want to transfer some of it out of the country I suggest you do a domestic transfer to another account before doing a foreign transfer.

ubonjoe, your answer is very useful. Thanks a lot.

Can I use the "income combined with bank account" method with transfers? e.g. 32.5k per month (65/2) and 400,000 in the bank with all of the proper account aging.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, tjansen said:

Can I use the "income combined with bank account" method with transfers? e.g. 32.5k per month (65/2) and 400,000 in the bank with all of the proper account aging.

You can use the combination option to reach a total of income and money in bank for 2 months to reach a total of 800k baht.

You example only totals to 790k baht..

[natway09]

Hardly worh the effort & transfer fees. If you have the requirement in a Thai bank now 

my suggestion is let it be, Immigration look at history & if it is the same becomes easier.

Everytime you move monies it costs more & they do not like having to check & verify 12 transactions all the time. Be careful of the exchange rate, if the US drops one month to below the minimum 

creates more problems (it happened to me once & nearly set off the scrutinizers 555)

[Tanoshi]

My 2 cents worth.

 

1. Transferring funds back and forth isn't financially the sensible thing to do.

Transfer fees and exchange rates two ways will account for a sizeable chunk of your income.

 

2. If your considering a change, do not make it part way through an extension period.

Make sure the change is made on the extension renewal date and ensure it complies for the previous and next due extension.

i.e If you used the 800K in the bank method ensure the 800K remains in the account for 3 months following the renewal.

 

3. Combination method available, but keep the funds part in the account for the whole year.

Example:

Extension due in April 2021.

Renew extension with current proof of funds (800K)

In March 2021, start transferring  say 34,000 BHT per month.

After 3 months withdraw 400K, leaving the remaining 400K in the bank account.

At the following extension renewal date (Apr 2022- applying early March)

a). You have complied with the previous extension requirements of the previous year (800K for 3 months)

b). For the 2022 extension you are providing proof of 400K in a Thai bank throughout the year and 12 x monthly overseas transfers of 34K. Total for year 804,000 THB, which meets the criteria for the combination method. (Funds and income totalling 800K for the year).

 

The above example is what I advised 3 British expats to do when the UK Embassy ceased the Income letters and they were forced to transfer 800K to a Thai bank account for their 2019 extensions. They didn't like the idea of leaving 800K dormant for 5 months in a Thai bank account.

They did exactly as I described and advised above and renewed their extensions in 2020 without any issues using the combination method.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Tanoshi

[thaikahuna]

Transferwise is an economical method to move money into Thailand but as yet, cannot transfer it back out.

[Peter Denis]

You received absolutely correct advice by UbonJoe and Tanoshi.

But there are three important other aspects that need to be taken into consideration before embarking on that switch from the 800K funds-in-bank method to the +65K monthly-income transfer method (or the combination method).

1 - Be aware that at many Immigration offices they now require you providing evidence of 12 months of transfers when using the +65K monthly-income transfer method.  So in your case that would mean that you would have to be transferring the funds on a monthly basis from abroad for more than 1 year before you can even consider to switch.  This because at the moment of application for your next 1-year permission to stay, the Immigration officer would first check whether you met the requirements during the preceding year (in your case that would be the +800K / +400K funds-in-bank method).

And then he would check whether you meet the requirements for your new 1-year extension of stay application.  And that's where you would need to show that you transferred monthly income from abroad during 12 months when your IO uses that criterion (previously 2 or 3 months were allowed for a first time application of the method).

2 - Also be aware that when using the monthly income-transfer method, that you would need to provide evidence that those transfers originated from abroad.  But the immigration officer handling your application can also ask you to provide evidence of the SOURCE of that income (e.g. a pension statement, rental income or income from interests/dividends - and some IOs only accept a pension statement as source of foreign income).  The background/intent of IO asking for the source of the foreign income, is to block a 'carrousel' of transferring the funds in-out of the country (and it looks that that is what you try to do).

3 - Finally be aware that the combination method is not accepted by all IOs, and if they do, some IOs (e.g. Phuket) have minimum requirements for the funds-in-bank part.

 

>> Considering the above, you should definitely enquire at your local IO on how they would handle a switch from Funds-in-Bank to Monthly Income transfer method (especially whether they require 12 of such transfers at the moment of application) and whether they accept the combination method, and if so what additional requirements (if any) they apply when using that method.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Peter Denis

[wwest5829]

On 1/20/2021 at 12:15 AM, tjansen said:

Hello, I have a question about replacing the former Embassy letter with monthly transfers, and I am hoping to get the usual informed assistance from Thaivisa Forum members.

 

-I am a US citizen, currently using 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for my visa retirement extension.

-I had used the incomer voucher letter from my US embassy for a few years until that option was removed.

-I live in Ratchaburi province and use the Immigration office in Ratchaburi.

-QUESTION 1: Can I personally transfer, monthly, at least 65,000 baht into my bank account in a single transaction each month for a period of twelve months initially, then continuing on into the future, to satisfy the income requirement for retirement extension of my visa?

-QUESTION 2: Is it permissible to transfer a portion of that money back out of my account ongoing?

 

I am hoping to hear from anyone with either direct experience doing this or certain knowledge of someone doing it. Thank you very much in advance.

 

Sincerely,

Tom Jansen

 

I have been living full time in Chiang Mai on my O-A Retirement Visa Extensions for going on 10 years now. I have only ever used the monthly income method as my US funds are invested and paying dividends. So, what I continue to do is: my dividends, RMD amounts from mt 403(b) and my current $1320.00 Social Securiety are automatically deposited in my Fidelity Account. From there, once a month I transfer $2200.00 USD via TransferWise, into my Bangkok Bank Account here in Thailand. Via TransferWise, you are given the opportunity to designated that the incoming funds are for long term stay living expenses. Bangkok Bank designates the incoming funds from abroad as an FTT transfer meeting the Immigration Requirement. Upon Extension renewal, I get the bank to supply a print out of my deposits and a letter stating the balance to present to Immigration (I use an agency). Any monthly excess goes into a separate account for emergencies and travel ... We (family of 3) rarely do not spend the 65K per month.

[Scott Tracy]

Just a thought. You would need the 800,000 in the bank 3 months prior to the extension and 2 months after...or t'other way round.... to maintain the validity of the extension. You would need 12 months of transferring 65,000 plus to a Thai account from a foreign account. I know not your circumstances, but you would need to maintain the permission to stay on the 800,000 whilst accumulating the evidence of the 65,000 per month over the 12 month period. Sounds expensive to me. What I mean is, it takes a year of transfers to qualify for the income method. Plus the maintaining of the minimum in the bank in the meantime.

 

I have done an extension on the 65000 per month method, using transferwise and I repatriate funds to the UK using Western Union. Yes, it costs money, yes it has fees and exchange rate issues, but that is the cost of living here with no Thai income, which would incur taxes anyways... 

I don't need 65,000 a month to live on, and rather than keep it in the Thai account, I use it for other purposes in the UK.

 

Sorry for all the waffle..

[Merron]

In the past you could read  following immigration order from 18 december 2018 about  monthly transfers but i can't find it back on ThaiVisa.

Mayby Ubon Joe or somebody  can help to find it back or give us a link to that  order

"Immigration order 0029-173 - 18dec18 - Supporting evidence of income for visa extension in case of family members and retirement"

 

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, Merron said:

In the past you could read  following immigration order from 18 december 2018 about  monthly transfers but i can't find it back on ThaiVisa.

Mayby Ubon Joe or somebody  can help to find it back or give us a link to that  order

"Immigration order 0029-173 - 18dec18 - Supporting evidence of income for visa extension in case of family members and retirement"

 

You can download it at number 18 here.

 

[Huckenfell]

On 1/20/2021 at 9:15 PM, thaikahuna said:

Transferwise is an economical method to move money into Thailand but as yet, cannot transfer it back out.

Yes they are very good with lowest rates and fastest service.

[mtls2005]

On 1/20/2021 at 12:15 AM, tjansen said:

-QUESTION 2: Is it permissible to transfer a portion of that money back out of my account ongoing?

 

 

 

Domestically? That is to say, from the QFT receiving account to another account in Thailand (yours or a third party)? 

 

Yes, absolutely. No restrictions AFAIK.

 

 

Can't speak to an outbound international transfer? Believe that's come up here dozens of times, so a search would yield some valuable details.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by mtls2005

[DrJack54]

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting the OP's plan.

There have been previous threads where the plan was to 'import' the 65k then send it back every month.  Bit like a yoyo.

Bit foolish in my opinion.

 

 

 

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting the OP's plan.

There have been previous threads where the plan was to 'import' the 65k then send it back every month.  Bit like a yoyo.

Bit foolish in my opinion.

Not only foolish, but also risky.  In order to avoid such 'carrousels' of transferring the 65K or 40K from abroad, and then transferring it back, to use the funds again for the next transfer, the Immigration officer can also request the applicant using the monthly income transfer method to provide evidence of the SOURCE of that income (e.g. a pension statement, rental income, interests/dividends, ...).

So if it is not a regular income source (some IOs only accept a pension statement), the application might be refused. 

Note: If OP would be using TransferWise to transfer his funds from abroad, he would need on top of the evidence that the funds originated from abroad, also would need to have the original source of the income available in case the Imm Officer handling his application asks for the SOURCE of those TW transferred funds. 

[tjansen]

Lot's of good precautions here. Thanks from several months into the future. I have been using Transferwise to build a history of transfers. From what you say,. I should also have a pension statement when I go for renewal. The reason for recyle of portion of the money is that I don't use that much money, and I prefer not to continually amass an excess of money in baht.

 

As you all probably know, Transferwise transfers "for long term stay in Thailand" deposited into Bangkok Bank are no longer certain to be coded FTT. I did a trial yesterday and it was not coded FTT.

 

Has anyone used OFX? I am preparing a trial after speaking to one of their staff. Another thing I have been unable to do with .....Wise, in spite of the fact that they instruct one to log in and get personal questions answered. 

 

Thanks to all who contributed.