Earth is losing ice faster today than in the mid-1990s, study suggests

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Ignoring hydrogen seems to be a theme today. You ignored my question about whether extracting hydrogen at an economically competitive rate is a proven technology which is the objection you raised against batteries.

I don't recall saying batteries are not a proven technology- perhaps you can quote where I said that? My objection has always been that they are polluting to make and dispose of and the raw materials are often apparently sourced from countries where the workers are exploited. The main point is that using hydrogen negates the necessity to use big batteries at all.

Hydrogen production is certainly proven, and I already pointed out that as it became more commonly used it would be cheaper to make.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

battery cars are not great at all.

hydrogen is the future, and if coupled with nuclear power it's zero emissions and limitless

Once fusion reactors come on line there will be no need to even consider batteries, as electricity price will be substantially reduced and producing hydrogen will become economic IMO.

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't recall saying batteries are not a proven technology- perhaps you can quote where I said that? My objection has always been that they are polluting to make and dispose of and the raw materials are often apparently sourced from countries where the workers are exploited. The main point is that using hydrogen negates the necessity to use big batteries at all.

Hydrogen production is certainly proven, and I already pointed out that as it became more commonly used it would be cheaper to make.

The technology to extract hydrogen economicilly s not proven yet. I And when it does get proven the smart money is betting on wind and solar power to do the extracting since their cost per kwh is so low and as a way of storing excess electricity generated in excess of demand.  Without renewables, hydrogen as a significant fuel is a dead end.

Since you claimed hydrogen as a fuel is proven technology in the context of comparing it to batteries, I assumed you meant that as an advantage enjoyed by hydrogen.

[Jeffr2]

38 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

battery cars are not great at all.

hydrogen is the future, and if coupled with nuclear power it's zero emissions and limitless

Battery cars, over their entire lifetime, are less polluting than gas/diesel ones...overall...

[Solinvictus]

I blame corporate greed. Some folks continue to go against the grain as far as the amount of pollution  placed into the atmosphere. Regardless it's not good.

 

Some folks are more outspoken and well versed regarding unregulated corporate capitalism. Others, well, they watch the TV box too much..

[Jeffr2]

6 minutes ago, Solinvictus said:

I blame corporate greed. Some folks continue to go against the grain as far as the amount of pollution is placed into the atmosphere. Regardless it's not good.

 

Some folks are more outspoken and well versed regarding unregulated corporate capitalism. Others, well, they watch the TV box too much..

This is what happens when properly qualified people are in charge of a country.

 

https://earther.gizmodo.com/joe-biden-is-throwing-the-weight-of-the-government-behi-1846133937

 

Joe Biden Is Throwing the Weight of the Government Behind Electric Vehicles

 

President Joe Biden is using one of the most powerful tools at his disposal to speed up the electric vehicle transition: the purchasing power of the federal government. On Monday, he announced he’s phasing out the federal government’s use of fossil fuel-powered cars, replacing them with an all-electric fleet, during a briefing about his “Buy American” executive order.

 

“The federal government also owns an enormous fleet of vehicles, which we’re going to replace with clean electric vehicles made right here in America, by American workers,” he said.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

“The federal government also owns an enormous fleet of vehicles, which we’re going to replace with clean electric vehicles made right here in America, by American workers,” he said.

How much of other people's money is that going to cost?

 

I'd like to see a military Hummer that can run on batteries. Recharging during a battle would be such fun.

[Rimmer]

A completely off topic post has been removed

[tgw]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Battery cars, over their entire lifetime, are less polluting than gas/diesel ones...overall...

 

the problem is in "over their lifetime".

another problem is that they are only "slightly less polluting".

third problem is that electric vehicles still cannot replace traditional vehicles that are used the most, i.e. run for a long time every day or have to cover long distances.

 

the effort put into electric vehicles would have been better invested in hydrogen.

nuclear plants could run at full capacity 24h/24 to produce hydrogen, and hydrogen can be stored, contrary to electricity.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How much of other people's money is that going to cost?

 

I'd like to see a military Hummer that can run on batteries. Recharging during a battle would be such fun.

If it was a choice between not buying any vehicles or electric vehicles you might have a point.  But the choice is between internal combustion powered vehicles and electric vehicles.  Auto fleet companies are already switching to electric vehicles because their have much lower maintenance costs more than make up for the additional purchase price. 

More than 60 per cent of fleets would see financial gains if they transitioned to electric today

The latest EV suitability assessment from Geotab, the fleet tracking and management specialist, finds North American companies that delay fleet electrification risk a hit to their bottom line
Every day that goes by, the financial case for widespread fleet electrification grows stronger. A new study from Geotab, an Oakville, Ont.-based fleet tracking and management services firm, shows that North American companies that continue to use combustion vehicles instead of EVs are paying out hefty sums in avoidable costs

https://electricautonomy.ca/2021/01/25/electric-fleets-financial-gain/

 

Only about 27% of the federal fleet is owned by the military. And not all of those vehicles are meant for battlefield use.

 

President Biden will make entire 645k federal vehicle fleet electric

President Joe Biden has just announced that he will replace the entire US federal fleet with electric vehicles made in the US.

The US federal fleet consists of over 645,000 vehicles, according to the latest Federal Fleet Report. This includes 245k civilian vehicles, 173k military vehicles, and 225k post office vehicles.

https://electrek.co/2021/01/25/president-biden-will-make-entire-645k-vehicle-federal-fleet-electric/

[GrandPapillon]

that hideous Presidential limo, the Beast, should be made electric

 

I wonder how much that cost annually to run that "non environmental" friendly monster

 

Biden needs to dump that thing ????

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

the problem is in "over their lifetime".

another problem is that they are only "slightly less polluting".

third problem is that electric vehicles still cannot replace traditional vehicles that are used the most, i.e. run for a long time every day or have to cover long distances.

 

the effort put into electric vehicles would have been better invested in hydrogen.

nuclear plants could run at full capacity 24h/24 to produce hydrogen, and hydrogen can be stored, contrary to electricity.

If you're going to put quotation marks around something be sure you do it accurately. Jeffr2 wrote "less polluting" not "slightly less polluting."

Batteries are a lot less polluting and getting less polluting all the time.

Are Electric Vehicles Really Better For The Environment?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2019/05/20/are-electric-vehicles-really-better-for-the-environment/?sh=254e0d8176d2

As for your contention that EV's have to run for every day or cover long distance. Really, most people who drive are driving most of the day or over very long distances?  And even if that were the case, battery capacity is getting greater all the time. Solid state batteries are just beginning to come on line and should increase range dramatically. Another company is starting actual production on an electric battery that will take 5 minutes to charge. 

And keep in mind that EV's will last a lot longer than ICV's. Electric motors are a lot more durable than internal combustion engines. And the batteries have a useful auto life of at least 330,000 kilometers. Afterwards they can be either recycled or repurposed as part of an energy storage grid.

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, tgw said:

the effort put into electric vehicles would have been better invested in hydrogen.

nuclear plants could run at full capacity 24h/24 to produce hydrogen, and hydrogen can be stored, contrary to electricity.

Actually, very rapid progress is being made with electrolysis of sea water. Combine that with solar or wind, and largescale use of hydrogen is feasible. On a cost basis nuclear can't come close to competing with wind or solar.

[owl sees all]

5 hours ago, tgw said:

 

battery cars are not great at all.

hydrogen is the future, and if coupled with nuclear power it's zero emissions and limitless

Indeed!

 

But I also like air-ships and vehicles than run on light.

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

Indeed!

 

But I also like air-ships and vehicles than run on light.

And sailing ships..running on solar and beautifully trimmed sails and panels...

 

'tis but a few decades away and we will see them in their awesome majesty once again.

[Scott]

Off-topic and troll posts removed.  

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:52 PM, placeholder said:

President Joe Biden has just announced that he will replace the entire US federal fleet with electric vehicles made in the US.

The US federal fleet consists of over 645,000 vehicles, according to the latest Federal Fleet Report. This includes 245k civilian vehicles, 173k military vehicles

To take that as it is written would include every military vehicle, including those used in combat situations, which IMO would be a nonsense. Can't spend hours recharging a Hummer during a battle. Does it include tanks? I'm not sure, but a tank is certainly a vehicle, and I'd like to see the battery that can power a main battle tank.

IMO it must include trucks, and the same would apply to trucks used to transport supplies to the front line during a battle. How many charging points will there be in the sort of place battles take place, such as deserts?

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

To take that as it is written would include every military vehicle, including those used in combat situations, which IMO would be a nonsense. Can't spend hours recharging a Hummer during a battle. Does it include tanks? I'm not sure, but a tank is certainly a vehicle, and I'd like to see the battery that can power a main battle tank.

IMO it must include trucks, and the same would apply to trucks used to transport supplies to the front line during a battle. How many charging points will there be in the sort of place battles take place, such as deserts?

First off, Biden didn't say starting tomorrow, vehicles used in combat will be EV's. Given the extraordinary progress made in battery storage, who knows how much charge a battery will be able to hold by the time of the 2nd Biden administration? Also fuel cells powered by green hydrogen are a possibility.

And I notice no defense of your silly comment in that same post of "How much of other people's money is that going to cost?"