Pattaya to become the next Miami and on a par with Singapore and Dubai, says mayor

[Harveyboy]

..Miami my ass

Edited February 11, 2021 by Harveyboy

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/10/2021 at 5:09 PM, wasabi said:

 They want to get rid of the Red Light districts, be my guest I hope they can improve it, but I can see very little to replace it that will ever make it a hot destination.

If you think the Thai people that make loadsacash from the farang bar scene are going to give it away in favour of ?????????????????? you must be smoking the same stuff as the mayor, IMO.

At least you realise that there isn't anything to replace it with that would make big spenders come to a grotty, broken city with polluted sea.

As for those that support a casino, casinos are magnets for prostitutes. I'm pretty sure there are a few in Las Vegas.

[pepi2005]

They could start by removing the 10,000+ potholes and other car/motorbike traps across the city,

and by stopping to allow the conversion of the few remaining green spots into useless 'condo' buildings!

[Andrew65]

3 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Miami - sex, drugs and crime.
Dubai - concrete jungle where 90% of the population are foreign workers and being drunk in public (or kissing in public) can land you in jail for months before being deported and blacklisted.
Singapore - where failing to flush a toilet, improperly disposing of chewing gum or spitting on the sidewalk can get you caned (seriously).

Pattaya is close to Miami already, just with poorer roads and fewer hurricanes. Miami looks great in the movies but the reality is probably not something you'd want to aspire to.

If it ever started resembling Dubai, I'd leave. Quickly. I've spent a fair bit of time there during the 10 years I was working in Afghanistan. I started arranging my flights so as to spend as little time there as possible. 
(Note - Dubai is basically bankrupt. It has no oil, unlike the other Emirates. It survives off of massive cash infusions from those other Emirates. When oil prices drop, or the oil dries up, Dubai will collapse as it literally has nothing to offer except very high end shopping for the very rich. You see what has happened in Thailand when the tourism spout was turned off. Dubai wouldn't fare much better as there simply isn't enough uber-rich people who'd want to go there to see nothing but sand and closed businesses.)

Singapore ? There's a pipe dream. It'd take decades (generations even) to get rid of the corruption here and start getting competent control of the infrastructure (i.e. to fix the ****ing roads/sidewalks and drainage systems) and then educate the population (to stop throwing garbage everywhere and using every wall and bush as a toilet) and you certainly wouldn't get away with starting to cane people to force compliance.

Keep in mind as well the "demographic" that Thailand seems to think is going to be their saviour as far as tourism is concerned. 
Massive hordes of low end Chinese and Indians tourists.

Because that has worked so well so far. (Sarcasm intended.)

Massive hordes of Chinese and Indians also flock to places like Dubai and Abu Dhabi.
As workers, not as tourists.

Can't see them flocking to a "Dubai-like Pattaya" to stay in 5 star luxury hotels and shop at the finest (and most expensive) shops on the planet. (Also keep in mind the utter failure of all the schemes Thailand has been trying to use to attract the "uber rich" crowd here already, starting with the Elite Card all the way to the current "Special Tourist" and "Medical" visas aimed at the jet set crowd.)

They had their cash cow and were milking it for all it was worth, but decided that they didn't like the colour of the cow (too "white") and, despite the massive amount of corruption in the country, they decided they didn't like the flavour of the milk (too "sexy"). 

Got to love a place where they think money from the sex industry is "dirty" but apparently have no problem at all with drug money and bribes and kick-backs.

There are few cities in the world that one would want to emulate. London ? Paris ? New York ? Tokyo ? Rome ? Vancouver ?
 All of them have the "seedy underbelly" that Pattaya seems to think they can just snap their fingers and make disappear. 

Pattaya has to develop it's own identity and realize that no matter what they do, not matter how they visualize it and try to frame it, it is always going to have a "seedy side". Maybe if they actually incorporated that into their thinking, instead of trying to eliminate it, they could actually find a workable solution that would allow them to market the city as "family friendly (with a wild side)".

Over a decade ago, when Walking Street was still in it's glory days, we had a thread where we listed all the things people could do in the city without ever stepping into a go-go bar (or even going to Walking Street at all). I think we had 80+ places/things to do where you wouldn't even see a beer bar (except maybe in passing). I'm sure the list would be even larger now (assuming everything is open and running).

Pattaya can easily accommodate both the "family" and the "single guy" tourist demographics. Not all "families" are as stuck up about the "sin" side of the city as some would have you believe. More than a few of them like to take a peek at the "naughty" side of the nightlife and yes, that includes the "single female" crowd as well.
But the reality is, if they don't want to, they don't have to. NOTHING forces them to go there or do anything (though some would have you believe otherwise as that suits their agenda).

(Like Paris in the old days. No one was forced to buy the "naughty" post cards but lots of people did any ways. Or Amsterdam. No one is forced to smoke pot in a coffee shop or have an intimate encounter with one of the women in the Red Light district, but plenty of people go there any ways just to have a "peek" at what all the fuss is about.)

Especially when you consider that the "family" tourists would (mostly) be looking at daytime activities and tourist attractions while the "other" tourists are (mostly) looking at late night venues.
And the few people who get outraged at seeing some young honey strolling through a mall on the arm of some geriatric are usually a) "few" and b) jealous (that they don't have some young stud pampering them).

One of the great problems of today is that anyone can be offended by anything and it instantly becomes a national (or international) headline. Like when you see an article about some celebrity in tears because someone tweeted that she looked fat in her muumuu. Never mind that it was one tweet out of 10,000, it becomes a headline.
Just like how if a couple dozen people are upset with the "sinful" side of Pattaya, it's a headline.

Ignoring the millions of people that apparently have no problem at all with what the city has to offer.

They should make headlines like that, but that would require them to be honest.

"10 people don't like the sin in Pattaya but millions don't care what they think."

Very well put.

If in the space of a month, all of the sex trade was wiped out in Thailand, what would happen to tourist numbers? Halved? Although they might not say it, I think many Thais would like it if it did disappear.

 

[jacko45k]

On 2/10/2021 at 11:46 AM, Surelynot said:

..........perhaps he is referring to the astronomically high murder rates and ruinous drug culture?

When I was in Miami I found it scary.

[Brian Hull]

It might be possible, long term, but not until Thailand is run by young businesslike technocrats instead of ageing and ineffective tin soldiers. The present government couldn't come up with workable and sensible visa plans for tourists and retirees even before COVID.

[Andrew65]

1 minute ago, Brian Hull said:

It might be possible, long term, but not until Thailand is run by young businesslike technocrats instead of ageing and ineffective tin soldiers. The present government couldn't come up with workable and sensible visa plans for tourists and retirees even before COVID.

An old Ozzie friend was working for a Japanese company in BKK a year or 2 ago. It was a multi-billion Baht oil/gas project. The Japanese bosses had to deal with a man in uniform when discussing technical/financial etc details. They ended up knocking the project on the head completely, rather than having to deal with such people.

[spidermike007]

No. No. No. No. No matter how much they dream, it will not happen. Why? Because the authorities do not grasp the concept of sacrifice. 

 

For instance:

 

If we compare the national tax system of Dubai, the UAE with the other traditional schemes and taxation practices, one can distinguish some features and properties. In particular, taxation in Dubai, the United Arab Emirates fully eliminates many obligatory taxes, which are withdrawn from businesses and private individuals on the territory of the other countries. 

The peculiarities of Dubai tax regulations have become a major incentive for attraction the significant investment inflows from abroad.

 

Smart policy. 

 

https://atton-consulting.com/en/uae-taxation-system

 

They say they want rich tourists. What sacrifices are the ministers willing to make, to get them? Rich tourists like to spend money when they travel. And they cannot do that here, as they do not like getting taken for a ride. Most wealthy people are smart with their money. Thailand could be making a fortune on a 20% luxury tax. Instead of the 100% or more, which discourages most people from buying. How many people do you see in the luxury stores here? They are almost always completely empty. Inane. Beyond Inane. Dumb policy. Same goes for the anemic wine industry here. 

 

Thailand needs the world, 20x more than the world needs Thailand. Are they addressing critical issues, like the air and water quality, traffic safety, public transportation on the southern islands, rapid rail transport, and the lack of law enforcement? No. Nothing, and I mean less than zero is being done.

 

Lower luxury taxes to 20%, and wine taxes to a reasonable 70%, and you have a chance at attracting rich tourists. Without that kind of sacrifice, you are throwing ideas into a gale force wind. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by spidermike007

[Andrew65]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

No. No. No. No. No matter how much they dream, it will not happen. Why? Because the authorities do not grasp the concept of sacrifice. 

 

For instance:

 

If we compare the national tax system of Dubai, the UAE with the other traditional schemes and taxation practices, one can distinguish some features and properties. In particular, taxation in Dubai, the United Arab Emirates fully eliminates many obligatory taxes, which are withdrawn from businesses and private individuals on the territory of the other countries. 

The peculiarities of Dubai tax regulations have become a major incentive for attraction the significant investment inflows from abroad.

 

Smart policy. 

 

https://atton-consulting.com/en/uae-taxation-system

 

They say they want rich tourists. What sacrifices are the ministers willing to make, to get them? Rich tourists like to spend money when they travel. And they cannot do that here, as they do not like getting taken for a ride. Most wealthy people are smart with their money. Thailand could be making a fortune on a 20% luxury tax. Instead of the 100% or more, which discourages most people from buying. How many people do you see in the luxury stores here? They are almost always completely empty. Inane. Beyond Inane. Dumb policy. Same goes for the anemic wine industry here. 

 

Thailand needs the world, 20x more than the world needs Thailand. Are they addressing critical issues, like the air and water quality, traffic safety, public transportation on the southern islands, rapid rail transport, and the lack of law enforcement? No. Nothing, and I mean less than zero is being done.

 

Lower luxury taxes to 20%, and wine taxes to a reasonable 70%, and you have a chance at attracting rich tourists. Without that kind of sacrifice, you are throwing ideas into a gale force wind. 

"...United Arab Emirates fully eliminates many obligatory taxes"
Ireland also effectively did this. They have a corporate rate of 12.5%, companies like Apple pay barely 1%. Ireland would have been in sovereign default if they hadn't of been bailed out by others.

[Keesters]

You can redesign, rebuild and make the city better but the people won't change. They'll still block sidewalks, overcharge, cheat etc etc. 

[Andrew65]

12 minutes ago, Keesters said:

You can redesign, rebuild and make the city better but the people won't change. They'll still block sidewalks, overcharge, cheat etc etc. 

In 1985 there were holes in the pavements, 1.5M X 1.5M X 1.5M, it has improved a bit since then!????

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

In 1985 there were holes in the pavements, 1.5M X 1.5M X 1.5M, it has improved a bit since then!????

The new buildings going up on 2nd Rd, at the end of Diana and heading North have effectively removed anywhere to walk on that side. Fencing is erected and motorcycles belonging to the construction workers take up another 4-5 feet. There is nowhere safe for pedestrians... and that always strikes me as Pattaya's problem.... whining about the tourists and at he same time sticking a finger up at them.

[gamini]

Although the Thais will never admit, its major attraction is it sheer decadence. There is nowhere like it in the world. It's a huge sex supermarket.  If you know where to look you could find bars with completely naked girls and live shows and everything else. I was a majority shareholder of a major hotel there and I worked there for five years. The first thing the first thing tourists asked was where was the best place to get a girl. Tourists from Muslim countries had never seen naked girl in their lives. What else is as it got other than a haven for criminals on the run and sexpats. The seawater is a brown colour and polluted. The traffic is abominable .  It's overbuilt and unattractive. There really is only one answer to attract anyone to go there and that is a casino.

[Andrew65]

30 minutes ago, gamini said:

Although the Thais will never admit, its major attraction is it sheer decadence. There is nowhere like it in the world. It's a huge sex supermarket.  If you know where to look you could find bars with completely naked girls and live shows and everything else. I was a majority shareholder of a major hotel there and I worked there for five years. The first thing the first thing tourists asked was where was the best place to get a girl. Tourists from Muslim countries had never seen naked girl in their lives. What else is as it got other than a haven for criminals on the run and sexpats. The seawater is a brown colour and polluted. The traffic is abominable .  It's overbuilt and unattractive. There really is only one answer to attract anyone to go there and that is a casino.

I hear the casino thing a lot now. I have old friends who are now living in Cambodia, what they are telling me about Sihanoukville/casinos, and mainly Chinese tourists, isn't good. They avoid Snookie completely now.

[DefaultName]

They would have to start treating foreigners better to have any chance of this.

[skytrooper70]

On 2/9/2021 at 8:20 PM, Oliver Holzerfilled said:

Sorry mayor but I'll take Singapore's Four Floors of Whores over Pattaya's Three Sois of Boys anyday.

When did they reduce it to only four floors? Back in the 80's and 90's, it was Ten Floors...can't remember the name of the tower but it was directly across from the Hilton.

[Surelynot]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

When I was in Miami I found it scary.

Never been...but from I have seen on TV most of urban America seems scary!!!

Edited February 11, 2021 by Surelynot

[DBath]

We're WAY PAST this sort of article not even being funny anymore. I think we're even way past "<deleted>!!!"

[DBath]

When I think of Pattaya as Miami...Liberty City comes to mind:

[Roy A F]

A solution to the woes of Thailand and the tourist trade in particular.

Just a thought, not a proposal, as the current government is strictly against gambling in any form.

It is well documented that the tourist trade is essential to the well-being of many Thai population, that we are sure about.

Some years ago there was a topic of conversation amongst the business community and the some of the then Government, before the military took over, where the possibility of Phuket Island, being the largest earner from the tourist trade, was allowed to become a free port and customs area, together with the licensing of casinos. Similar to two close neighbours Singapore as a free port and areas of Malaysia where casinos are permitted in some areas and previously, Penang and now Langkawi as duty-free areas. It was suggested that this could not take place with the then current King in place, but maybe after the succession and the Crown Prince on the throne.

Certainly, this would make Thailand much more attractive to visitors.

This would cause some problems for the population but offset by the increase in spending by the visitors, note I don't mention tourists.

Tourists could also benefit from the improved facilities that the increased tax revenues would fund.

Cruise ships would flood the island with rich Asians to fill out the casinos, they could also buy their duty-free goods whilst here. and also the possibility of weekend gamblers flying in to enjoy the facilities.

Control would be easy and simple, although there would be some who could try to get around the law, but if the facilities i.e. Casinos and Duty-Free malls are only open to foriengers and proof would be their passport so no local gamblers. There would be no place for local gamblers to go, other than the shady dives already well known, to the authorities.

If this proved to be a financial success then other areas could be selected such as Pattaya, but that would be a lot more demanding to control than Phuket, being its an island.

[bronzedude]

It's hard to even offer a further comment on this article since I think all the posters have exhausted all the points of ridicule. Long live Soi 6! Expats rule!

[bronzedude]

2 hours ago, skytrooper70 said:

When did they reduce it to only four floors? Back in the 80's and 90's, it was Ten Floors...can't remember the name of the tower but it was directly across from the Hilton.

Ochard Tower.

[paulikens]

you havent even got pavements for pedestrians for gods sake, talk about trying to walk before you can crawl

[crosthwaite]

If you're stupid enough, anything is possible.

[spidermike007]

7 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

"...United Arab Emirates fully eliminates many obligatory taxes"
Ireland also effectively did this. They have a corporate rate of 12.5%, companies like Apple pay barely 1%. Ireland would have been in sovereign default if they hadn't of been bailed out by others.

Well, there is a balance to be found, somewhere in the middle, perhaps. Thailand is way over the top. The luxury taxes amd wine taxes absolutely decimate the higher end of the tourism market, by discouraging wealthy people from staying here. It is totally non visionary policy. They keep droning on and on and "wanting", those tourists, but where are the needed sacrifices and incentives?

[bangon04]

"Pattaya must end its reliance on foreign tourism."   Seems they have achieved that aspect of the master plan already. Time to start Phase 2.....

[zhounan]

I've been laughing for 10 minutes.

Only now have I dried my tears and can write this message.

 

God my jaw hurts!????

[Rodbayne94]

It doesn't have to be a new city, it needs to be Thailand's redlight city for adults

[desert dueller]

What a joke. Had this mob been colonized, they'd at least know how to build a proper footpath. Try that first, then bignote yourselves with pompous and vacuous pronouncements and new signage (the easy part first). Mayor and Co cleaning up the pavers on Driving Street - one day before they ripped it all up to start the underground cabling job etc. You couldn't make it up. 

[DerbyDan]

If they really wanted to do this it's better to chose a brand new site somewhere. You don't need to build off a current customer base for this kind of project. In fact it's better not too. That way the only people around are your target customers in the same income bracket and the same goals and values. Exclusitivity, security and sometimes high fences also helps.