Democrats argue Trump planted seeds of Capitol attack with false election claims

[webfact]

Democrats argue Trump planted seeds of Capitol attack with false election claims

By David Morgan and Richard Cowan

 

A protester is seen near a giant screen as it airs advertisements in support of convicting former U.S. President Donald Trump as the second day of his impeachment trial begins in Washington, U.S., February 10, 2021. REUTERS/Leah

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrats on Wednesday argued Donald Trump planted the seeds for the deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol long before Jan. 6 with false claims the 2020 election was stolen, and said lawmakers had an obligation to hold the former president accountable.

 

The House of Representatives has charged Trump, a Republican, with inciting an insurrection by exhorting thousands of supporters to march on the Capitol on the day Congress was gathered to certify Democrat Joe Biden's electoral victory.

 

The rioters stormed the building, sending lawmakers into hiding and leaving five people dead, including a police officer.

 

The nine Democratic House managers prosecuting the case for impeachment, an uphill task in an narrowly divided Senate, said on Wednesday the incitement started long before Jan. 6.

 

"Trump realized last spring that he could lose the November election and began planting seeds of anger among his supporters by saying he could lose only if it was stolen," said Representative Joseph Neguse.

 

"If we are to protect our republic and prevent something like this from ever happening again, he must be convicted."

 

Representative Joaquin Castro cited what he called blatant acts of political intimidation against election workers in states Trump was losing. In Philadelphia, Atlanta and Milwaukee, Castro said, Trump's supporters tried to use armed force to disrupt the counting of votes.

 

U.S. Representative Joseph Neguse, an impeachment trial manager, argued Donald Trump planted the seeds for the deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol long before Jan. 6 with false claims the election was stolen, and said lawmakers had an obligation to hold the former president accountable.

 

“They believed it was their duty to quite literally fight to stop the count,” Castro said.

 

Trump's actions threatened a hallmark of American democracy, the peaceful transfer of power, the Democratic managers said.

 

"This case is not about blaming an innocent bystander for the horrific violence and harm that took place on Jan. 6," lead manager Jamie Raskin said as he opened the proceedings. "This is about holding accountable the person singularly responsible for inciting the attack."

 

Democrats face long odds to secure a conviction, which could lead to a vote barring Trump from seeking public office again. A two-thirds majority in the Senate must vote to convict, which means at least 17 Republicans would have to defy Trump's still-potent popularity among Republican voters.

 

Republican Senator Ron Johnson, a Trump ally, told reporters at a break that the proceedings would become "pretty tedious."

 

"This is a political exercise," he said.

 

On Tuesday, just six out of 50 Republican senators broke with their caucus to vote that the trial could move ahead even though Trump's term ended on Jan. 20.

 

In an Ipsos poll for Reuters that was released on Wednesday, 47% of respondents said Trump should be convicted while 40% said he should not, with opinions split along party lines.

 

The trial in the Senate is not the only probe Trump faces after leaving the White House and losing the presidential protections that shielded him from prosecution.

 

Prosecutors in Georgia’s biggest county have opened a criminal investigation into Trump’s attempts to influence the state’s election results after he was recorded in a Jan. 2 phone call pressuring the Secretary of State to "find" enough votes to overturn his Georgia loss.

 

FIRST AMENDMENT

Trump's lawyers, who will have 16 hours to deliver their side of the argument after the House managers are finished, argue that the former president's rhetoric is protected by the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech, and that the individuals who breached the Capitol were responsible for their own criminal behavior.

 

They also say the trial is politically motivated.

 

"We are really here because the majority in the House of Representatives does not want to face Donald Trump as a political rival in the future," Bruce Castor, one of Trump's lawyers, told senators on Tuesday.

 

It was still not clear whether either side would present witnesses, but Democratic Senator Dick Durbin told CNN on Wednesday: "We have plenty of witnesses. We have 100 witnesses sitting in the chairs and the senators."

 

The Senate trial could conclude as early as Saturday or Sunday, according to a senior Senate aide.

 

Some Democrats had expressed concern that a prolonged trial could delay progress on Biden's agenda, including a proposed $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief package.

 

Biden was not planning to watch the trial, the White House said. Asked on Tuesday about the proceedings, the president said he was focused on his own job.

 

"The Senate has their job; they're about to begin it. I'm sure they're going to conduct themselves well," he said.

 

Trump is the first U.S. president to be impeached twice. His first impeachment trial, which stemmed from his efforts to pressure Ukraine to investigate Biden, ended in an acquittal a year ago in what was then a Republican-controlled Senate.

 

No U.S. president has ever been removed from office via impeachment. Bill Clinton was impeached in 1998 and Andrew Johnson in 1868 but they also were acquitted. Richard Nixon resigned in 1974 rather than face impeachment over the Watergate scandal.

 

(Reporting by Richard Cowan and David Morgan, additional reporting by Karen Freifeld and Jan Wolfe; writing by Sonya Hepinstall; Editing by Scott Malone and Alistair Bell)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-02-11

 

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[J Town]

This is one of the darkest times in US politics. Watching the hours of the timeline in how this spun out and the actions of both the former president and Giuliani to stop the certification process, it's clear the former president was attempting a coup.

 

He's not on trial, the (R) Senate is, and we already know they will vote in fear of what the base will do to them if they vote based on the evidence.

[OneMoreFarang]

Americans waited far too long to prosecute Trump. If any leader of any other country would have behaved like Trump at home we can be sure that Americans would have criticized such behavior and maybe even started sanctions against such a country.

Trump told lies even before he was elected. And then he told more lies. And then the spineless GOP politicians didn't convict him for his Ukraine behavior. And then he got even bolder and he invented the lie about stolen elections many month before those elections happend. And finally he started the insurrection in Washington DC. And it seems most GOP politicians still don't want to convict him. What do those politicians want? More of Trump? Really?

Everybody who still continues to enable Trump should go to jail. That's what they do with traitors all over the world.

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, J Town said:

This is one of the darkest times in US politics. Watching the hours of the timeline in how this spun out and the actions of both the former president and Giuliani to stop the certification process, it's clear the former president was attempting a coup.

 

He's not on trial, the (R) Senate is, and we already know they will vote in fear of what the base will do to them if they vote based on the evidence.

The senators took an oath to uphold the constitution. That's their job.

If they don't do that then all those senators should be prosecuted.

[Tug]

It’s a no brainer he’s guilty as sin I sincerely hope more republicans put country first not a failed trustfund baby man from NY city that beeing said we will certainly get them on record 

[J Town]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

The senators took an oath to uphold the constitution. That's their job.

If they don't do that then all those senators should be prosecuted.

The only legal "prosecution" that can be done is to vote them out (the ones running for re-election) in 2022. The US has become far too litigious a country, laws favoring the plaintiffs. Common sense has flown the coop.

[mtls2005]

The glove fits.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, J Town said:

The only legal "prosecution" that can be done is to vote them out (the ones running for re-election) in 2022. The US has become far too litigious a country, laws favoring the plaintiffs. Common sense has flown the coop.

Then what's the point of that oath if they can just ignore it without any consequences? 

[J Town]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

<snip>

What do those politicians want? More of Trump? Really?

<snip>

They want to stay in power at all cost.

 

[J Town]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

Then what's the point of that oath if they can just ignore it without any consequences? 

EXACTLY!

[vandeventer]

Trump will win easily> You can't remove him from office if he is already gone. And by chance something stupid happens and he gets impeached, watch out Hillary and Obama as the Republican will be coming for you.

[Sujo]

3 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Trump will win easily> You can't remove him from office if he is already gone. And by chance something stupid happens and he gets impeached, watch out Hillary and Obama as the Republican will be coming for you.

Oh dear.

 

conviction can also bar him from office in future, so that is the reason for the trial.

 

He is already impeached, twice. This 2nd time happened when he was in office.

 

Why would hillary or obama care, they are not running for any office anyway.

[Blue Muton]

8 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Oh dear.

 

conviction can also bar him from office in future, so that is the reason for the trial.

 

He is already impeached, twice. This 2nd time happened when he was in office.

 

Why would hillary or obama care, they are not running for any office anyway.

Quite. And one of the basic requirements for a trial is wrongdoing, which there is no evidence of either of them doing.

[J Town]

1 minute ago, Blue Muton said:

Quite. And one of the basic requirements for a trial is wrongdoing, which there is no evidence of either of them doing.

Oh GAWD don't go there! Plenty of evidence to take this SO FAR OFF TOPIC that the universe might implode!

[Mama Noodle]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Trump's lawyers, who will have 16 hours to deliver their side of the argument after the House managers are finished, argue that the former president's rhetoric is protected by the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech, and that the individuals who breached the Capitol were responsible for their own criminal behavior.

 

They also say the trial is politically motivated.

 

This is quite literally the honest truth of it all. Trump didn't tell anyone to storm the capital and his rhetoric is certainly no more or less extreme than the people trying to prosecute him. 

[phantomfiddler]

Absolutely wonderful that america now has the government it deserves ????

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

This is quite literally the honest truth of it all. Trump didn't tell anyone to storm the capital and his rhetoric is certainly no more or less extreme than the people trying to prosecute him. 

And as soon as the Capitol was stormed Trump raced to send reinforcements to protect it from the angry mob...just kidding.

[wwest5829]

12 hours ago, J Town said:

The only legal "prosecution" that can be done is to vote them out (the ones running for re-election) in 2022. The US has become far too litigious a country, laws favoring the plaintiffs. Common sense has flown the coop.

Or "Recall' where available but that depends on citizens taking action.

[vandeventer]

1 hour ago, phantomfiddler said:

Absolutely wonderful that america now has the government it deserves ????

I don't think Americans deserve the life they will be having in the next 4 years no matter what party their with. Changes are coming too fast with all these executive orders 53 so far. More than any president in American history within the first 2 weeks of office. America doesn't need a Dictator they need a President.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

I don't think Americans deserve the life they will be having in the next 4 years no matter what party their with. Changes are coming too fast with all these executive orders 53 so far. More than any president in American history within the first 2 weeks of office. America doesn't need a Dictator they need a President.

That's why we dumped trump. We don't need a dictator. 

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

I don't think Americans deserve the life they will be having in the next 4 years no matter what party their with. Changes are coming too fast with all these executive orders 53 so far. More than any president in American history within the first 2 weeks of office. America doesn't need a Dictator they need a President.

Most of those executive orders are undoing those of Trump's. So it's not so much doing as undoing.

[ExpatOK]

The bottom line is President Trump did nothing wrong. He never ordered any kind of violent demonstration.

 

President Trump should have never been impeached.  Just like last time, his not guilty verdict is certain.  

 

If the Democrats really want to unite the country, they should call this whole thing off and apologize to the American people.  That would be a start.

[Jeffr2]

5 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Trump will win easily> You can't remove him from office if he is already gone. And by chance something stupid happens and he gets impeached, watch out Hillary and Obama as the Republican will be coming for you.

It's not about removing him from office. It's about misconduct while in office.

 

Why deflect to Hillary and Obama? That's bizarre.

[Jeffr2]

27 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

I don't think Americans deserve the life they will be having in the next 4 years no matter what party their with. Changes are coming too fast with all these executive orders 53 so far. More than any president in American history within the first 2 weeks of office. America doesn't need a Dictator they need a President.

Changes that are desperately needed to undo all the damage Trump did with his executive orders.  Trump was trying to become a dictator just like all the one he praised. Which were many.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, ExpatOK said:

The bottom line is President Trump did nothing wrong. He never ordered any kind of violent demonstration.

 

Perhaps Trump didn't pull the trigger (storm the Capitol) himself. But he spent months falsely claiming a fraudulent election, whipped up his supporters to a frenzy with those false, debunked claims, then summoned them to Washington DC to challenge Congress and try to overturn the election results, and told them to fight and "it's gonna be wild."  If he didn't pull the trigger, he did everything else but.

 

And, it's not like everyone couldn't see exactly what Trump was aiming for before it even happened:

 

"George Conway, the husband of President Donald Trump's former counselor Kellyanne Conway, said he is concerned Trump is fueling threats of violence ahead of a January 6 protest in support of the president.

 

"Trump is out there now tweeting stuff like, 'it's gonna be wild on January 6th,'" said Conway during a Monday appearance on MSNBC's Morning Joe. "He's inviting and retweeting tweets about people coming to Washington to do Lord knows what. And, you know, it's going to be groups like the Proud Boys...and QAnon, and all the crazies."

 

"On the message boards, apparently, there are basically threats of violence," Conway continued. "And this is a scary thing."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/george-conway-criticizes-trump-fueling-threats-violence-this-scary-thing-1558775

 

AND

 

"President Trump invited his followers to D.C. a month ago, promising them it’s “gonna be wild.”

 

They planned the riots openly on social media for weeks, bragging about how many guns they’d bring and the mayhem they’d set off.

 

They came by the thousands, and outside the White House, Trump rallied them to march on the Capitol on Wednesday, reassuring them that “after this, we’re going to walk down there, and I’ll be there with you.” (He wasn’t.)"

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/did-you-see-the-law-enforcement-response-to-the-rioters-taking-over-the-capitol-this-is-what-white-privilege-looks-like/2021/01/07/499eddf4-5099-11eb-83e3-322644d82356_story.html

 

I'd argue, all of the above fits well into the "did something wrong" category.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pique Dard]

15 hours ago, webfact said:

Democrats argue Trump planted seeds of Capitol attack with false election claims

it's obvious! the facts speak for themselves , yet as said before, trump will be  acquitted! we are in the usa, remember! so democrats are just waisting their time, as far as i'm concerned

[Thakkar]

8 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

This is quite literally the honest truth of it all. Trump didn't tell anyone to storm the capital and his rhetoric is certainly no more or less extreme than the people trying to prosecute him. 

Trump supporters wearing Trump gear, heeding Trump’s call to gather on the 6th at a Trump rally where Trump spoke, after which they stormed the Capitol building with Trump flags chanting Trump! Trump! Trump!

 

But I guess we’ll never know who inspired them and their actions.

[Sujo]

10 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

This is quite literally the honest truth of it all. Trump didn't tell anyone to storm the capital and his rhetoric is certainly no more or less extreme than the people trying to prosecute him. 

Maybe you should listen to those that stormed the capitol, no not antifa.

 

then again, try watching the trial and your misrepresentations are answered.

 

Tell me about the dems inciting terrorism. I have asked you before for links.

[Pique Dard]

6 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

The bottom line is President Trump did nothing wrong. He never ordered any kind of violent demonstration.

 

President Trump should have never been impeached.  Just like last time, his not guilty verdict is certain.  

 

If the Democrats really want to unite the country, they should call this whole thing off and apologize to the American people.  That would be a start.

i read twice, three times, four....8 times, until i realized this was not a mirage! but i'm stil  wondering

[J Town]

10 hours ago, vandeventer said:

I don't think Americans deserve the life they will be having in the next 4 years no matter what party their with. Changes are coming too fast with all these executive orders 53 so far. More than any president in American history within the first 2 weeks of office. America doesn't need a Dictator they need a President.

President Biden has said more than once he's not putting new law in place, he's removing the terrible policies of the former president.