Phuket retirees refused visa renewal for failing bank balance asked to apply for COVID visa

[webfact]

Phuket retirees refused visa renewal for failing bank balance asked to apply for COVID visa

By The Phuket News

 

A foreigner has an application processed at the Phuket Immigration Office in Phuket Town. Photo: The Phuket News / file

 

PHUKET: Phuket Immigration is urging all expats staying on retirement visas whose applications to renew their one-year permit to stay have been refused due to financial reasons to apply for a 60-day “COVID visa” so they can continue to stay in the country.

 

The issue came to the fore after a retired expat who has been living in Phuket on a retirement visa for nigh on 10 years informed The Phuket News that his application to renew his permit-to-stay for another year had been refused.

 

The reason given for refusing his application was that he had failed to maintain the B400,000 minimum bank balance in a Thai bank account as required by the conditions of being approved a one-year ‘extension” to his visa.

 

Full story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-retirees-refused-visa-renewal-for-failing-bank-balance-asked-to-apply-for-covid-visa-79131.php

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2021-02-24

 

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[darksidedog]

If he didn't have the money and he knew he didn't have it, I am surprised he didn't get an agent to do it for him.

Immigration have their rules, which you have to respect at the end of the day, whether you agree with them or not.

If there weren't a visa amnesty he wouldn't be being offered any new visa at all.

[LazySlipper]

Dufus

This one is on him... 

[Oldie]

4 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

If he didn't have the money and he knew he didn't have it, I am surprised he didn't get an agent to do it for him.

Immigration have their rules, which you have to respect at the end of the day, whether you agree with them or not.

If there weren't a visa amnesty he wouldn't be being offered any new visa at all.

How legal is it to use an agent to achieve something that cannot be achieved legally? 

[foreverlomsak]

I'm surprised that we haven't seen more reports of refusals for failing to keep 800,000 for 3 months after and then a minimum of 400,000 for the rest of the year. Maybe he honestly kept his head in the sand and didn't know about it, after all "it's never happened to me before" so it shouldn't happen now.

Wonder how many have already moved to agents.

 

[darksidedog]

2 minutes ago, Oldie said:

How legal is it to use an agent to achieve something that cannot be achieved legally? 

One of the quirks of Thailand. We all know it is illegal, but yet it happens continuously for many who don't have the money, or don't want to bring it to Thailand.

[foreverlomsak]

13 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

One of the quirks of Thailand. We all know it is illegal, but yet it happens continuously for many who don't have the money, or don't want to bring it to Thailand.

Or have difficulties with Immigration even though they meet all the requirements, e.g. I nearly got there when an IO insisted I must have an Embassy letter of Income (by the way I had no income they could certify) when I had over 1,600,000 in a single Thai bank account. The IO had to back down when I insisted that he show me the requirement for the Embassy letter. I never visited that particular office again.

[jackdd]

Lucky that they are offered this option, and aren't getting deported for being on overstay or being told that they have to leave.

[foreverlomsak]

37 minutes ago, Oldie said:

How legal is it to use an agent to achieve something that cannot be achieved legally? 

Very, if you use a legal Agent, but don't use an illegal Agent or you could be in hot water.

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Very, if you use a legal Agent, but don't use an illegal Agent or you could be in hot water.

What’s a legal agent vs. an illegal agent? 

[Oldie]

2 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Very, if you use a legal Agent, but don't use an illegal Agent or you could be in hot water.

I have never used an agent. So I would like to understand what exactly happens if I don't have the required money for a retirement extension and I use an agent. How does the agent achieve legally that there is no problem to get the retirement extension? 

[foreverlomsak]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Lucky that they are offered this option, and aren't getting deported for being on overstay or being told that they have to leave.

Your correct, theoretically the day they went below the 400,000 they went on overstay, for failing to meet the requirement of the current extension. That could mean on termination of the Covid extensions it's 7 days and bye bye

[foreverlomsak]

4 minutes ago, Oldie said:

I have never used an agent. So I would like to understand what exactly happens if I don't have the required money for a retirement extension and I use an agent. How does the agent achieve legally that there is no problem to get the retirement extension? 

This is one of the gray area's of agent use.

If Immigration are provided with documents that state you have the funds, an extension can be legally issued in Immigrations eyes.

However if the documents are found to be false then any extension issued on that basis is illegal (probably).

The extension could also be obtained by the provision of a "brown envelope" to waive some parts of the submission, e.g. funds, this would be both illegal and legal, illegal is the "brown envelope" part, however senior officers do have the authority to waive some requirements legally.

Clear as mud isn't it.

[Oldie]

4 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

This is one of the gray area's of agent use.

If Immigration are provided with documents that state you have the funds, an extension can be legally issued in Immigrations eyes.

However if the documents are found to be false then any extension issued on that basis is illegal (probably).

The extension could also be obtained by the provision of a "brown envelope" to waive some parts of the submission, e.g. funds, this would be both illegal and legal, illegal is the "brown envelope" part, however senior officers do have the authority to waive some requirements legally.

Clear as mud isn't it.

I begin to understand the difference between "legal" and illegal agents. If you have bad luck a "legal" agent can become an illegal agent. A very insecure way to stay in Thailand. 

[foreverlomsak]

33 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

What’s a legal agent vs. an illegal agent? 

To my mind a legal agent is one that has premises and deals with Immigration and can be seen to do so, e.g. takes you to Immigration after compiling the pack of papers (maybe with items missing).

an illegal agent is somebody that takes your money and passport and comes back an hour later and says there you go.

[foreverlomsak]

3 minutes ago, Oldie said:

I begin to understand the difference between "legal" and illegal agents. If you have bad luck a "legal" agent can become an illegal agent. A very insecure way to stay in Thailand. 

Why I'm still persevering with doing it myself, but I can see the day coming when I might want to go that route, even though I can meet all current criteria.

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

One of the quirks of Thailand. We all know it is illegal, but yet it happens continuously for many who don't have the money, or don't want to bring it to Thailand.

well it's all legal and above board, until it isn't. Don't ask, don't tell. 

[jackdd]

1 minute ago, Oldie said:

I begin to understand the difference between "legal" and illegal agents. If you have bad luck a "legal" agent can become an illegal agent. A very insecure way to stay in Thailand. 

I think if legal or illegal only depends on if the applicant fulfills the requirements or not.

The "a senior IO can waive the requirements" is most likely only a Thaivisa forum myth and isn't actually done. Waiving any requirements would leave the IO open prosecution, so why should he do this...

If an applicant doesn't fulfill the requirements and uses an agent I'm sure that the agent fakes the required documents and the IOs gets paid to oversee this. If there should ever be an internal investigation, the name of the agent won't show up anywhere, the IO will say he couldn't see that the documents are faked, and the applicant will be pointed at for having applied with fake documents.

[KeeTua]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

One of the quirks of Thailand. We all know it is illegal, but yet it happens continuously for many who don't have the money, or don't want to bring it to Thailand.

I think I've read somewhere that the decision to extend permission to stay is up to the IO, there is leeway without breaking the law. Making exceptions on a case by case basis directly with the person applying for permission to stay would be a slippery slope for Immigration. Hiring an agent as a middleman may not be such a bad idea.

[sweatalot]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

One of the quirks of Thailand. We all know it is illegal, but yet it happens continuously for many who don't have the money, or don't want to bring it to Thailand.

if I had such an agent visa I couldn't sleep peacefully. Who guarantees that the next crack down  will not invalidate all such visas and make me and the agent a criminal offender ?

Edited February 24, 2021 by sweatalot

[Pilotman]

3 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

I think I've read somewhere that the decision to extend permission to stay is up to the IO, there is leeway without breaking the law. Making exceptions on a case by case basis directly with the person applying for permission to stay would be a slippery slope for Immigration. Hiring an agent as a middleman may not be such a bad idea.

It is a very good idea to use an agent.  Don't try to fight the system, learn to live within it. 

[foreverlomsak]

2 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

if I had such an agent visa I couldn't sleep peacefully. Who guarantees that the next crack down  will not invalidate all such visas and make me and the agent a criminal offender ?

probably only you as that is the only details recorded, the agents are only doing what you tell them so will probably get away without penalty.

[donnacha]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

Very, if you use a legal Agent, but don't use an illegal Agent or you could be in hot water.

The correct woke term is "undocumented Immigration Officer".

[foreverlomsak]

1 minute ago, donnacha said:

The correct woke term is "undocumented Immigration Officer".

too many letters to type I'll stick to agent, everybody understands who you mean.

[donnacha]

Just now, foreverlomsak said:

too many letters to type I'll stick to agent, everybody understands who you mean.

Whoosh!

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, Oldie said:

How legal is it to use an agent to achieve something that cannot be achieved legally? 

Its legal as that aspect iswaived by senior IO.

[exparte]

In my 20 years in Thailand, I have never used an agent for doing a visa in Thailand. I have been on a Business Visa, Married Visa and Retirement visa. The Retirement visa is the easiest if you have the cash in the bank. Otherwise you will have to use an agent. I have a friend who uses the agent for a retirement visa; cost him 12K Baht.

 

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, exparte said:

In my 20 years in Thailand, I have never used an agent for doing a visa in Thailand. I have been on a Business Visa, Married Visa and Retirement visa. The Retirement visa is the easiest if you have the cash in the bank. Otherwise you will have to use an agent. I have a friend who uses the agent for a retirement visa; cost him 12K Baht.

 

Thank you for your advice!

 

But, with respect , there is no such visa as a retirement visa.

Edited February 24, 2021 by LosLobo

[KhunG]

I've never used an agent either, nor experienced any of the drama I read about online.  Retirement extensions based on deposit take a visit to the bank the day before and under 30 minutes at immigration the next day.  I understand that places like Jomtien and Bangkok may be more difficult due to being busier.

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, KhunG said:

 Retirement extensions based on deposit take a visit to the bank the day before

Not acceptable to some offices the bank book update and the bank letter must be dated on the day you apply, re-iterated by Phetchabun Immigration yesterday when I went to get their custom TM7 form and the other 4 Immigration supporting documents that I require to complete and submit for "Retirement", before I even get to copies of all passport and bank book pages and of course the bank letter.