Visa extension fraudsters: Further details emerge as Thai police go after Russian retirees who used service

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, EricTh said:

The recent case of Japanese retirees borrowing money through agents to topup the financial requirement is going to make things worse for those who abide by the rules.

 

 

 

How do you some up with that conclusion?

 

If you have all the proper evidence including funds in place and file your extensions personally, how come you are threatened?

[simon43]

[quote]

The Russian embassy has been informed of the activity of the pair who were using VK.com - a food business that acted as a front for the criminal activity.

[/quote]

 

Huh?  VK.com is the Russian equivalent of Facebook.  Even I have a page on that site.  I assume it means that this pair had a web-page on VK.com that advertised their visa services.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Having a higher-ranked, non-Immigration cop fronting this story indicates to me that some branches or individuals at the Immigration police may also be under investigation.

 

And, given the references to Pattaya in the OP, the investigatory spotlight might well be shone on the Jomtien office, at least in the first instance.

Edited March 23, 2021 by OJAS

[KarenBravo]

44 minutes ago, mosan said:

The statement is technically correct, they just didn't cover all the bases - in the unlikely event you didn't know...

 

It says what you have to show immigration which is 800k. I know you can go down to 400k after three months of getting the extension, but, the next time you visit immigration is for your next renewal, which means you have to show again 800k.

Immigration will check to make sure that you didn't go below the 400k for the designated seven months during the renewal process.

If it is the first renewal, then there would be no 400k to check.

Therefore, my post is factually correct and the news article isn't.

Edited March 23, 2021 by KarenBravo

[sammieuk1]

They had no chance with a inspector general general on the case ???? 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Let the pogroms against illegal foreigners begin! 

[2530Ubon]

15 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Let the pogroms against illegal foreigners begin! 

I'm seriously reconsidering my options! Perhaps a crackdown is looming?

I was offered a visa solution a couple of weeks ago when I got my last covid ext (well, technically they spoke to my fiance) direct from the IO. 15 months 55k

[ThailandRyan]

Putin will smooth it all over.....maybe a free millions does of the Sputnik vaccine donated to the government.  Nothing to see here folks.

[Seismic]

2 hours ago, polpott said:

Wasn't immigration that forced the embassies, the embassies took it upon themselves to stop the letters, hence the majority of embassies still provide the letters.

That is not correct and this was well explained at the time by a podcast with British Embassy staff. Immigration told foreign embassies that they had to verify that the documents provided were in fact correct and the money was actually in the bank, rather than just rubber stamp them with a 'yes we have seen it' response. The British embassy simply did not have the staff to verify the hundreds of requests each month, and rather than pay lip service to the notion and simply continue to issue the letters they decided that the requirement was simply not possible as did the other embassies who took that decision. Whether those embassies who are still issuing the letters, are in fact doing documentation checks, is another question.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

At least the Russian Embassy is on the hook for certifying the "income".

 

 

 

 

 

IIRC, the UK embassy when thy used to do the bank letters would write that they had seen the evidence presented but could not verify it. That was under the UK data protection act, and even if you authorised them they could/would not go the income provider for confirmation, probably because of the time and expense involved.

[potless]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

INN news said there was evidence of lots of fake bank documents with names from MANY passports.

Very sporting of the fakers to provide the police with all the evidence they need, incriminating themselves and their clients.

[2530Ubon]

17 minutes ago, potless said:

Very sporting of the fakers to provide the police with all the evidence they need, incriminating themselves and their clients.

I wonder if other agencies also keep a client list to update them....

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, ezzra said:

Oh Those Russians....

and for once is not "" Oh those Chinese"" ... sorry, my mistake, the "Oh those Chinese" was a couple days ago   555

 

 Big Chinese backed loan sharking operation busted in Huay Kwang

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Mavideol

[potless]

13 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

I wonder if other agencies also keep a client list to update them....

Its fine to have a client list, but keep it somewhere discreet.

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

Are they going to force them to stop providing "Income Letters", as they have with UK, USA and Australia, or is it going to be just "Oh you naughty boys" and a limpy slap on the wrist.

 

A few years ago, I've already commented it's unfair to ban just a few countries while the rest of the world can still abuse the system.

 

Let's hope Thailand stop accepting anymore letters from all embassies as they are NOT reliable at all.

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by EricTh

[Enzian]

The big problem with Thai Immigration no longer accepting the sworn statements of US citizen (and others-I don't know the list) is that it means that a certain % of us who used to rely on the affidavit system will of necessity use agents, thus ensuring a large flow of cash into the offices to be distributed according to whatever system they use. A flow and amount that is in addition to whatever was happening before. So it looks like the system was changed expressly for that reason, not to keep ex-pats honest. And given the gravy, the system can never go back.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Enzian
typo

[EricTh]

48 minutes ago, billd766 said:

IIRC, the UK embassy when thy used to do the bank letters would write that they had seen the evidence presented but could not verify it. That was under the UK data protection act, and even if you authorised them they could/would not go the income provider for confirmation, probably because of the time and expense involved.

 

I doubt the other embassies have the staff and time to verify the documents especially when they are much smaller countries than the US.

 

It is much easier to just chop a stamp on it which just takes a few seconds instead of weeks to verify it.

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

Hmmm... So are dodgy visas & extensions of stay only ok if issued through immigration or a well known visa agent?

Shame on you sir!

 

That is a quite terrible slur on a fine organisation.

 

Besides, no Thai would do something like that!

[metisdead]

Some troll posts have been removed. 

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

IIRC, the UK embassy when thy used to do the bank letters would write that they had seen the evidence presented but could not verify it. That was under the UK data protection act, and even if you authorised them they could/would not go the income provider for confirmation, probably because of the time and expense involved.

You mean cut into the GT budget??

[foreverlomsak]

4 hours ago, polpott said:

Wasn't immigration that forced the embassies, the embassies took it upon themselves to stop the letters, hence the majority of embassies still provide the letters.

Yes, the UK embassy stopped doing the letters, because they were being required by Thai Authorities to validate the contents of the documentation that was being provided (not just view and accept), and under the EU Data Protection Act, they are unable to do so.

 

[polpott]

4 hours ago, Enzian said:

I thought the point was that Immigration asked the Embassies to do more than just create a sworn affidavit, to actually go back to the US  (in my case) and verify that I really had that much in my US bank accounts, and the embassy said they didn't have the manpower or authority for that, hence Immigration stopped accepting the unverified affidavits. So from that POV, Immigration forced my embassy to cease and desist, and I had to have funds wired to a bank here (rather than pay an "agent").

Immigration never stopped accepting the letters. The US embassy stopped issuing them. This was on the back of one routine meeting between the embassy consular officials and one middle ranking immigration official. The three embassies jumped at the chance of discontinuing the letters. The UK embassy in particular already performed the level of verification that was being asked for and it would have been a simple job for the other 2 embassies to change their verification methods to fall in line with all other embassies.

Edited March 23, 2021 by polpott

[polpott]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

Yes, the UK embassy stopped doing the letters, because they were being required by Thai Authorities to validate the contents of the documentation that was being provided (not just view and accept), and under the EU Data Protection Act, they are unable to do so.

 

And all other European embassies? It was a blatant lie by the UK embassy who stopped the letters because they were moving to a smaller embassy and wanted to downsize Thai staff numbers.

[GeorgeCross]

2 hours ago, Enzian said:

The big problem with Thai Immigration no longer accepting the sworn statements of US citizen (and others-I don't know the list) is that it means that a certain % of us who used to rely on the affidavit system will of necessity use agents, thus ensuring a large flow of cash into the offices to be distributed according to whatever system they use. A flow and amount that is in addition to whatever was happening before. So it looks like the system was changed expressly for that reason, not to keep ex-pats honest. And given the gravy, the system can never go back.

 

no-one is forcing expats to use agents, if they choose they may use the system already in place and just pay 1900 baht every year.

its the expats' decision themselves to supply the "gravy".

 

 

[crazykopite]

Am I to presume that it’s okay for immigration or Thai nationals to offer this service I live on one of the islands dodgy companies charge up to 45,000 baht to give you an easy passage to get a years visa all you have to produce is your passport and bank book . No medical verification or 800 k in the bank . I refuse to line agents or Immigration pockets 

[crazykopite]

5 hours ago, Seismic said:

That is not correct and this was well explained at the time by a podcast with British Embassy staff. Immigration told foreign embassies that they had to verify that the documents provided were in fact correct and the money was actually in the bank, rather than just rubber stamp them with a 'yes we have seen it' response. The British embassy simply did not have the staff to verify the hundreds of requests each month, and rather than pay lip service to the notion and simply continue to issue the letters they decided that the requirement was simply not possible as did the other embassies who took that decision. Whether those embassies who are still issuing the letters, are in fact doing documentation checks, is another question.

My understanding is that the BE only churned out 2,000 letters per year and at 3,000 +baht per letter that was considerable income

[foreverlomsak]

2 hours ago, polpott said:

And all other European embassies? It was a blatant lie by the UK embassy who stopped the letters because they were moving to a smaller embassy and wanted to downsize Thai staff numbers.

The 2 items were co-incidental, yes they were moving and wanted to downsize, but the truth is the embassy has no right to investigate your finances to validate your assertions, as was being required by Thai authorities.

 

If it was a blatant lie, by the British Embassy for their own purposes, why did the American and Australian Embassy's stop at the same time.

[polpott]

43 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

The 2 items were co-incidental, yes they were moving and wanted to downsize, but the truth is the embassy has no right to investigate your finances to validate your assertions, as was being required by Thai authorities.

 

If it was a blatant lie, by the British Embassy for their own purposes, why did the American and Australian Embassy's stop at the same time.

More to the question, why didn't most embassies stop at the same time? The original comment from the middle ranking IO was specifically aimed at the US who did no real verification, the Australians didn't do much more. It wouldn't have taken much for them to change their procedures to align with all other embassies, including the UK. They chose not to. I have already explained why the British embassy chose to go down the route that they did.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, polpott said:

And all other European embassies? It was a blatant lie by the UK embassy who stopped the letters because they were moving to a smaller embassy and wanted to downsize Thai staff numbers.

I think that in the end the UK embassy did me a favour by stopping it. I no longer go to BKK, spend 2 nights in a hotel and make 2 visits to the embassy, nor do I have the hassle of going to the Thai Post Office to get a money order.

 

I just get my pension providers to send or email me a letter, I keep a short version of my Wise/BBK transfers and the Immigration office in Kamphaeng Phet are happy with that part of the paperwork.

 

I do it all myself without an agent and at 76 I have the time to spare to do it that way.

[polpott]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I think that in the end the UK embassy did me a favour by stopping it. I no longer go to BKK, spend 2 nights in a hotel and make 2 visits to the embassy, nor do I have the hassle of going to the Thai Post Office to get a money order.

 

I just get my pension providers to send or email me a letter, I keep a short version of my Wise/BBK transfers and the Immigration office in Kamphaeng Phet are happy with that part of the paperwork.

 

I do it all myself without an agent and at 76 I have the time to spare to do it that way.

Same here. It also saved me the £52 embassy fee. I don't understand why you had to go to Bangkok though. I did everything by post, in fact, if I remember correctly, the BE refused to issue the letters in person. I also paid by cc.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by polpott