Would you ever seriously think about moving to Cambodia or Laos?

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

Looking at the political climate (and history), I wouldn't move to either country.

I considered both, a long time ago and rejected them as Thailand was the better option, especially when it came to thinks like healthcare, transportation (airports and roads), education (if you have kids and can afford better schools/universities) and so on. Not to mention political stability. Despite the coups and short lived terms and many recent Prime Ministers, Thailand is still way ahead of Cambodia (and Myanmar) as far as stability is concerned.

And I wouldn't trust a communist (or communist government) for an instant. Nor a dictatorial one like Cambodia has now. There is a lot of instability in the region and once the fuse is lit, it tends to spread like wildfire. (Remember the "Arab Spring" uprisings around the Middle East a few years ago ?) 

The Philippines, such as they are, are probably a safer bet (so long as you stay out the area where the Muslim terrorists are operating). Just pick your location carefully (i.e. no beach front properties on the East or North parts of the islands, where most storms are likely to hit, no low-lying property with poor drainage that will flood every time it rains, etc, etc). You'll still get the monsoons of course but for the most part shouldn't have to worry as much about the storms.

No place is perfect of course and when you read a lot of threads on TV you see a lot of people have issues no matter where they live. It's a matter of what you can live with (or without). What you are willing, or unwilling, to put up with. Nobody here can decide that for you.

I'd considered the Philippines a long time ago as well. What put me off at the time was the "long stay" visa requirement of having to have $50,000 (US) in the bank (but you had the option of "investing" that much in a condo that you could live in). It sounded like buying a condo (not a house) was the only option to keeping a large balance in the bank (indefinitely). I decided to look elsewhere.
(That requirement was what the Embassy told me back in the mid-90s. A lot has probably changed since then.)

Right now, looking around the region, it still looks to me like Thailand is the best option. You have more "conveniences" living in or near the big cities, but things tend to be more expensive. Or you can live in the boonies where things may be cheaper, but you have to a long way to the nearest hospital, shopping mall or movie theatre. 

If, for some reason, I did have to relocate to a new country, I would rather move to the Philippines instead of Cambodia or Laos. (Yes, there are options in Central America as well, which is great if all your worldly possessions can fit into a suitcase. And you can bet that once you get there, you'll find the "grass" is just as dry and dusty as it is here. Then you'll look back at Thailand and wonder why you never noticed how much greener and lusher the grass looked while you where there.)

But again, it boils down to what you are willing to do.

Great post.  I don't think there really is a comparable alternative to Thailand in this part of the world, for all its many faults.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

Hey..what happened to the chinese cuties! ????  I did note helmets on the two on the mbike :)....still scanning for the 7-11!...no vendors setting up to block the walkway?

I've not encountered any Chinese in PP or SR, but they're all over Vietnam.

Beggars and vendors trying to set up on the PP promenade are quickly moved on.

[polpott]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I've not encountered any Chinese in PP or SR

I visited early February last year. Groups of young Chinese men were everywhere in the Riverside area. My impression was there were more Chinese than Barangs out at night.

[vandeventer]

On 3/26/2021 at 12:24 PM, The Hammer2021 said:

The Thermae remained good until it relocated and its hours changed....It was still great in 93 but sometime after,  like all nightlife in Bangkok it declined especially in the 90s when the sinister dance drug scene  opened up. However, for Koreans, Javanese and Chinese Thermae is still a paradise albeit one that closes at 1am not 7am.

Yes the Thermae was great in the 60's as well. I remember the girls were your escort 24/7 for 100 baht a day in those days. And in those days life was more simple. Going to the zoo or the monkey temples was such a nice day.

[JimmyJ]

I've been interested in both countries but have been to neither.

 

Will still visit them but have ruled out living there due to my desire for quality medical care.

 

Sheryl has posted about living in Cambodia and the poor (and dangerous) medical care there.

Anyone seriously considering moving to Cambodia should do a search for her posts on that topic.

 

 

I am not interested in living in Capital cities and I have never read reports of health care in Laos but I'm assuming it's poor.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by JimmyJ

[simon43]

26 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

... I have never read reports of health care in Laos but I'm assuming it's poor.

 

Your assumption is entirely correct!

[cyril sneer]

On 3/27/2021 at 8:58 AM, Johnny Mac said:

Cambodia -No chance. It's an absolute cesspit, just filthy. It's also full of the lowest dregs of Western society one can imagine. I went to PP a few years ago, the main area where the 'expats' drink was like a zombie movie. You just knew you were rubbing shoulders with paedos, crooks and god knows what other form of sub-human scum.

spot on from my experience going there

[gunderhill]

Too  many Khmer  Rouge  memories for me.

[gunderhill]

2 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

spot on from my experience going there

Gary  Glitter  likes  it.

[canthai55]

As some - not many - have said in this thread - Life is what you make it.

Those that say - "It's ...(hot, boring, yada yada yada) have only themselves to blame.

Just got back from a 2 day bike trip. Was it hot - Yes. Was it dusty - Yes.

Was it Fun - for Sure Yes. Great scenery, wash off in the waterfall mid-day, hotel had a pool and aircon. So come 1500 I am all cool again.

Waiting for the clock to say beer o'clock ... reminds me of my days in Pattaya when I first came here. Falangs sitting on the steps of 7-11 at 0800 with a beer, looking like they had just been run over.

Flock, Fight, or Hold the Light

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

Just got back from a 2 day bike trip. Was it hot - Yes. Was it dusty - Yes.

Was it Fun - for Sure Yes. Great scenery, wash off in the waterfall mid-day, hotel had a pool and aircon. So come 1500 I am all cool again.

Well done you,

I just had a baked potato and chilli with a wine cooler for breakfast at 8:30am.

That was also fun, and hot, but not dusty.

Edited March 30, 2021 by BritManToo

[fusion58]

Both countries have nice locations to visit, but dealing with the many fronts on which Thailand is underdeveloped is already challenging enough for me, so living in either Laos or Cambodia would be out of the question, I'm afraid.

[simon43]

3 hours ago, fusion58 said:

Both countries have nice locations to visit, but dealing with the many fronts on which Thailand is underdeveloped is already challenging enough for me, so living in either Laos or Cambodia would be out of the question, I'm afraid.

I live in north Laos.  I think the only challenging aspect that could occur would be if I needed decent medical care - it would maybe need Medivac to Thailand (I'm insured for this of course).  Hence the importance of staying healthy, not riding my motorbike fast or drunk etc.

 

Bu other challenging aspects?  There aren't any for me.  Sure, there's no Century 21 shopping centre, there's no beach.  But having lived by the beach in Phuket for many years, I don't miss the sea. I visit the Kuang Si waterfalls just outside town and swim there.

 

[Rimmer]

Off topic post has been removed:

 

Would you ever seriously think about moving to Cambodia or Laos?

[Leaver]

18 hours ago, fusion58 said:

Both countries have nice locations to visit, but dealing with the many fronts on which Thailand is underdeveloped is already challenging enough for me, so living in either Laos or Cambodia would be out of the question, I'm afraid.

 

Do you have a Plan B just in case you are not able to live in Thailand in the future?  If so, where is it?    

[thequietman]

On 3/26/2021 at 12:41 PM, WineOh said:

Did you get the address mate? I’m thinking about taking a trip to cambodia after all this is over ????

He just told you !   At some traffic lights...... pay attention that man. ????

[Jingthing]

On 3/31/2021 at 8:41 PM, Leaver said:

 

Do you have a Plan B just in case you are not able to live in Thailand in the future?  If so, where is it?    

I think that is always a legitimate concern for all expats in Thailand that don't have permanent residence or Thai citizenship, which is of course the vast majority.

[shdmn]

I think the Philippines is very much an up and comer with all the money they are spending on infrastructure right now.  The PI is kind of in that sweet spot Thailand was in 15 years ago, where it's still cheap and yet not full blown 3rd world.  Also, less visa hassles and anti-foreigner sentiment compared to Thailand.

Edited April 1, 2021 by shdmn

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, shdmn said:

I think the Philippines is very much an up and comer with all the money they are spending on infrastructure right now.  I think the poor infrastructure was a big reason people preferred Thailand over the PI.   Right now the PI is kind of in that sweet spot Thailand was in maybe 15 years ago where it's still quite cheap and the infrastructure was improving quite a bit.  A lot less visa hassles and anti-foreigner sentiment in general compared to Thailand as well.

Well yes and no. 

Of course right now there you can't get a new SRRV visa and those with SRRV visas which are supposed to give permanent residence can't return (OK if you're there and don't leave). But presumably that's mostly about Covid 19 (but there was also a crackdown on younger SRRV holders because so many Chinese and suspected of being spies). 

But as far as how the development is going, I do agree. 

I was there long ago (Manila, Cebu City and Dumaguete) and although I wouldn't want to live in either Manila or Cebu City Dumaguete probably got better since I've been there and I've been watching videos about Bacalod, Iloilo City, and areas in Cavite province outside Manila. As far as housing there appears to be a lot of quite cheap rentals of local style apartments but new build condos seem to be overpriced relative to their locations compared to Thailand. I like condo living because of the security. Also like Thailand, new build condos tend to be very small. But of course people need to do boots on the ground to really know. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Jingthing

[shdmn]

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well yes and no. 

Of course right now there you can't get a new SRRV visa and those with SRRV visas which are supposed to give permanent residence can't return (OK if you're there and don't leave). But presumably that's mostly about Covid 19 (but there was also a crackdown on younger SRRV holders because so many Chinese and suspected of being spies). 

But as far as how the development is going, I do agree. 

I was there long ago (Manila, Cebu City and Dumaguete) and although I wouldn't want to live in either Manila or Cebu City Dumaguete probably got better since I've been there and I've been watching videos about Bacalod, Iloilo City, and areas in Cavite province outside Manila. As far as housing there appears to be a lot of quite cheap rentals of local style apartments but new build condos seem to be overpriced relative to their locations compared to Thailand. I like condo living because of the security. Also like Thailand, new build condos tend to be very small. But of course people need to do boots on the ground to really know. 

Brand new modern foreigner friendly condos in Mactan Newtown Cebu are going for quite cheap right now but that may just be temporary.  I think you can rent a one bedroom there for about $400 US a month right now.  I wouldn't have considered it before that new bridge.  It will be a lot easier getting over to Cebu city once that is opened, maybe later on this year.

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by shdmn

[Jingthing]

Yeah Mactan outside of Cebu is interesting.

What has kind of shocked me are condo prices for teeny tiny places in very central locations in provincial cities. I don't totally get it but clearly they have a number of rapidly developing up and coming cities there. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Jingthing

[n00dle]

Not laos, but cambodia maybe, siem reap it has a wakepark. id certainly never return to the philipines to live.

 

At least the entire cambodian population doesn't pretend to speak english and thailand is easily accessible,or at least it was. 

[n00dle]

28 minutes ago, shdmn said:

I think the Philippines is very much an up and comer with all the money they are spending on infrastructure right now.  The PI is kind of in that sweet spot Thailand was in 15 years ago, where it's still cheap and yet not full blown 3rd world.  Also, less visa hassles and anti-foreigner sentiment compared to Thailand.

I thunk you have to have lived in the philipines to understand what a <deleted>hole it really is. 

 

5 years there for work between stints in thailand. Id go back for a visit, but it genuinely is sub par as a place to live and getting around is a chore.

[shdmn]

34 minutes ago, n00dle said:

I thunk you have to have lived in the philipines to understand what a <deleted>hole it really is. 

 

5 years there for work between stints in thailand. Id go back for a visit, but it genuinely is sub par as a place to live and getting around is a chore.

Have you been there lately?  What it was 5 years ago and what is it today is much different in a lot of places.  I can tell you first hand that the internet and 4G coverage/speed is much better now than it was 5 years ago.

Edited April 1, 2021 by shdmn

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I think that is always a legitimate concern for all expats in Thailand that don't have permanent residence or Thai citizenship, which is of course the vast majority.

 

So many seem to think that little sticker in their passport gives them "a right" to reside in Thailand.    

 

When you seriously look at it, a retirement visa is really just a 1 year tourist visa.   

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

So many seem to think that little sticker in their passport gives them "a right" to reside in Thailand.    

 

When you seriously look at it, a retirement visa is really just a 1 year tourist visa.   

I think most retired expats at least eventually learn that they have no residence security here. That's the deal they offer. Take it or leave it  Other countries that have retirement status schemes often offer at least some or even lifetime residence security. 

[daveAustin]

Britman, Thailand has gotten itself well expensive. The minimum wage wars saw to that. Are we on the same page?

 

Never been Laos, but would not consider Cam. Great for quick vacation - love SR, temples, Pub St etc, and people in general, but just too grubby and edgy, sorry. Laos seems a lot more laidback... glad you're doing well Simon.

 

ATEOTD, though ever-burgeoning paperwork/requirements seriously suck asssssss, Thailand kicks the whole region to the curb.

[simon43]

1 hour ago, daveAustin said:

Britman, Thailand has gotten itself well expensive. The minimum wage wars saw to that. Are we on the same page?

 

Never been Laos, but would not consider Cam. Great for quick vacation - love SR, temples, Pub St etc, and people in general, but just too grubby and edgy, sorry. Laos seems a lot more laidback... glad you're doing well Simon.

 

ATEOTD, though ever-burgeoning paperwork/requirements seriously suck asssssss, Thailand kicks the whole region to the curb.

Thanks.  One positive aspect of living in Laos is the ease of paperwork.  With no 90 day reports, no TM30, and no annual visa renewal documents required, except for my passport and 2 photos - which provides me with my business visa, work permit and local ID card ==> I'm happy ????  Oh, I forgot to mention that there's no requirement for money in the bank, monthly income proof etc etc to get the visa.

 

I've been living in Luang Prabang for almost 2 years now, (after returning from living in Naypyitaw-Myanmar).  Nowhere is perfect, but LP ticks most of my boxes.

Edited April 1, 2021 by simon43

[n00dle]

11 hours ago, shdmn said:

Have you been there lately?  What it was 5 years ago and what is it today is much different in a lot of places.  I can tell you first hand that the internet and 4G coverage/speed is much better now than it was 5 years ago.

I left last year, well late 2019, narrowly missing out on being stuck there for covid. That would have ended me.

 

I lived in one of the best areas in manila, bgc. I also spent plenty of time in cebu and clarke and camsur and towns like baler and batangas and la union.

 

I had some good times, but in general it was all just wrong. 

 

As for improved internet, I was paying 2000 pesos for 9mb with globe, and after upgrading to a 3000p plan, I was blessed with 12. And the internet wasnt even my complaint. Yountslk about 4g, i certainly never saw speeds of 40 plus down or up on my phone. Lucky to get 3.

 

Being trapped in the highways for hours during any sort of holiday travel, poor, inconsistent selection of goods in the best super markets The impossibility of getting the most menial of service tasks done. And just the general attitude of the whole place is wrong. Sir. 

 

Put lipstick on a pig if you want, the philipines is broken. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by n00dle

[brewsterbudgen]

On 3/31/2021 at 8:41 PM, Leaver said:

 

Do you have a Plan B just in case you are not able to live in Thailand in the future?  If so, where is it?    

 No, not really.  It's quite a worry.