Would you ever seriously think about moving to Cambodia or Laos?

[BritManToo]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

 No, not really.  It's quite a worry.

No need to worry, something  always turns up.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Britman, Thailand has gotten itself well expensive. The minimum wage wars saw to that. Are we on the same page?

I don't believe we are.

Thailand has only got cheaper for me, when I first purchased my her house, interest rates were 6.25%, now they're 4.75%. Petrol was 33bht/ltr, now it's 26bht/ltr. The condo I rented in 2010 for 5kbht/month is still 5kbht/month in 2021. My full Moon Dark wine coolers are still 28bht, bread flour is still 32bht/kg. Now I have solar power my electric bill is down to 400bht/month. 

 

I've not seen any significant cost rises in the past 12 years (apart from pork +50% and hookers +300%). Now my daughter has finished university (and I've cut her off from any more cash handouts), I'm quids in.

 

back on topic,

I like Cambodia, my pal pays $250/month for a very nice condo in Kampot, yearly VISA $300 no silly paperwork. But I'd live in Siem Reap or Phnom Penh if I were to be forced to jump the good ship Thailand.

Edited April 2, 2021 by BritManToo

[williet98248]

US expat.  I live in Phuket for 18 years.   I liked Cambodia.  Kampot, Battambang are my favorites.  SR too touristy and PP too big.  Kampot is probably where I would end up; on the river estuary and beaches close by.  I now have a Thai wife with a good job and I also have a job here or I would pick up for Cambodia.  I thought the Cambodian girls a bit more shapely than the typical skinny Thai ladies.  Bigger boobs.  My opinion. Very friendly people, food was fine, housing cheap.  Infrastructure not so good.  Buying a car practically out of the question.  20 year old Honda CRV;  US $1000.  Thailand $4000.  Cambodia  $10,000.  Chinese have ruined Sihanoukville and starting on other areas as well.  Stuck in Thailand but but would move if possible.

[FritsSikkink]

No

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I think most retired expats at least eventually learn that they have no residence security here. That's the deal they offer. Take it or leave it  Other countries that have retirement status schemes often offer at least some or even lifetime residence security. 

 

It amazes me how so many "invest" in Thailand, either financially, or emotionally, or both, yet without a fair and reasonable pathway to Thai residency, the visa can be cancelled or revoked, or they change the goal posts to get the visa, and one is no loner able to reside in Thailand.  

 

A fair system would be something like if someone has maintained extensions to stay for say 7 years, then they should be given the option of gaining residency in Thailand.  At least this would offer them long term security for being able to reside in Thailand.  

 

Currently, you can buy property here, but it's the visa that allows you to reside in it, and visa requirements can change with the stroke of a pen in Bangkok.  

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

It amazes me how so many "invest" in Thailand, either financially, or emotionally, or both, yet without a fair and reasonable pathway to Thai residency, the visa can be cancelled or revoked, or they change the goal posts to get the visa, and one is no loner able to reside in Thailand.  

 

A fair system would be something like if someone has maintained extensions to stay for say 7 years, then they should be given the option of gaining residency in Thailand.  At least this would offer them long term security for being able to reside in Thailand.  

 

Currently, you can buy property here, but it's the visa that allows you to reside in it, and visa requirements can change with the stroke of a pen in Bangkok.  

Yeah.

Amazing.

"Invested" here myself objectively aware of the risk but I didn't really understand how residence insecurity was going to FEEL until after it was too late. Speaking only for myself it doesn't feel good.

 

I agree they should offer real residence for very long term continous extenders if for no other reason than compassion and understanding that so many will have nothing to return to.. But I think we know they won't. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Jingthing

[simon43]

Here in Laos, the normal period to wait before PR is ten years, but they have a reduced time requirement of 3 years for scientists.  Later this year, I'll be on my 3rd annual business visa - so I better start making enquiries in the PR direction to see if it's a real possibility or not.

[balo]

On 4/1/2021 at 4:39 PM, shdmn said:

I think the Philippines is very much an up and comer with all the money they are spending on infrastructure right now.  The PI is kind of in that sweet spot Thailand was in 15 years ago, where it's still cheap and yet not full blown 3rd world.  Also, less visa hassles and anti-foreigner sentiment compared to Thailand.

 

Still not a safe country , the crime rate is high and too many murders of Westerners.  I just feel safer in Thailand, yes lots of problems here too, but you really have to watch your back in the Philippines. 

2 days ago my countryman , an expat was murdered in cold blood in Eastern Visayas, on a small island.  Someone shot him in the head, it was a simple robbery. 

norwegian-national-found-dead

 

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, balo said:

 

Still not a safe country , the crime rate is high and too many murders of Westerners.  I just feel safer in Thailand, yes lots of problems here too, but you really have to watch your back in the Philippines. 

2 days ago my countryman , an expat was murdered in cold blood in Eastern Visayas, on a small island.  Someone shot him in the head, it was a simple robbery. 

norwegian-national-found-dead

 

A very sad and strange story

the man lived in an isolated house but with his pinay wife, their sibling and parents and they even hired a security guard, still the guy was shot in the head at night alone in his bed?

 

Where were all the others members of the family? And the guard?

 

I am sorry but i can not ''buy'' the robbery story, it seems obvious the guys had no money or he was really stingy, look at the house it's a slum, police should investigate the family  (particularly if the wife is a pretty young one, and also the guard, it's relatively easy to see the link and who was the problem)

Edited April 2, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[balo]

23 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

I am sorry but i can not ''buy'' the robbery story, it seems obvious the guys had no money or he was really stingy, look at the house it's a slum,

You do not know the full story like I do.   He was on holiday , just renting the place for a few days.    Reported in local Norwegian news.  He owns a house in Norway and not poor at all.  Yes it could be more than a robbery , but my understanding is he had a good wife and he took good care of them. 

I think this was a very random incident, and not the first time I've heard about foreigners getting robbed and shot. 

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by balo

[kingofthemountain]

3 minutes ago, balo said:

You do not know the full story like I do.   He was on holiday , just renting the place for a few days.    Reported in local Norwegian news.  He owns a house in Norway and not poor at all.  Yes it could be more than a robbery , but my understanding is he had a good wife and he took good care of them. 

I think this was a very random incident, and not the first time I've heard about foreigners getting robbed and shot. 

 

That's not at all what it's said in the article

i am more inclined to trust you as you seem to know this guy

but it's really a shame the ''journalists'' are not able to write correctly some basics facts

 

''Naval COP Police Major Michael John Astorga identified the victim as Svein Hakonse y Ingar, 63, married, a Norwegian National who is temporarily residing in the said place with his wife, child, parents and sibling.''

 

And

 

''Acting on the said report the local police immediately responded and went to the house of the victim which is isolated from the barangay proper and located in the mountainous area. Upon arrival at the house of the victim, the responding police found that the victim was lying lifeless inside his house with a gunshot wound on his jaw.'' 

 

finally:

 

''

She added that she learned that the couple has built a house in the isolated part of the barangay but it has a road in front of the house.

Chairwoman Monchedora continued that the couple did not inform the barangay about their building of a house, but they always saw them passing at the barangay hall riding their vehicle.

She added that aside from the couple’s siblings and parents they also hire a security guard.''

 

[Jingthing]

On 4/1/2021 at 9:55 PM, shdmn said:

Brand new modern foreigner friendly condos in Mactan Newtown Cebu are going for quite cheap right now but that may just be temporary.  I think you can rent a one bedroom there for about $400 US a month right now.  I wouldn't have considered it before that new bridge.  It will be a lot easier getting over to Cebu city once that is opened, maybe later on this year.

 

This video explains more of what I was talking about. Notice all the comments say these are wildly overpriced and tiny and fantasy predictions of a crash that may never come.

 

 

[mikebike]

On 3/29/2021 at 12:33 AM, Leaver said:

 

And which country made them that way?  ????

Their home country...

[Henryford]

If and when Thailand makes it impossible to stay here Cambodia will be my first choice.

[Henryford]

18 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

It amazes me how so many "invest" in Thailand, either financially, or emotionally, or both, yet without a fair and reasonable pathway to Thai residency, the visa can be cancelled or revoked, or they change the goal posts to get the visa, and one is no loner able to reside in Thailand.  

 

A fair system would be something like if someone has maintained extensions to stay for say 7 years, then they should be given the option of gaining residency in Thailand.  At least this would offer them long term security for being able to reside in Thailand.  

 

Currently, you can buy property here, but it's the visa that allows you to reside in it, and visa requirements can change with the stroke of a pen in Bangkok.  

 

I agree it's a risk to commit to Thailand, certainly more so now than before. I took the risk 15 years ago and and more than happy i did. Even if they kicked me out now i probably have had my "moneys worth". If you are interested in the entertainment scene there is nowhere that compares to Thailand. If i was doing it now though i would think long and hard.

[AlfHuy]

36 minutes ago, Henryford said:

 

I agree it's a risk to commit to Thailand, certainly more so now than before. I took the risk 15 years ago and and more than happy i did. Even if they kicked me out now i probably have had my "moneys worth". If you are interested in the entertainment scene there is nowhere that compares to Thailand. If i was doing it now though i would think long and hard.

With now, you mean .... soft and short.????

[shdmn]

What is the appeal of Kampot?  No beach, no shopping, few restaurants, and a few backpackers passing through on their way to Vietnam.  I would be bored to death there.  May as well just live in Issan.

Edited April 3, 2021 by shdmn

[Burma Bill]

3 hours ago, Henryford said:

Cambodia will be my first choice.

 Thank you. I live in Siem Reap and at the moment, vast infrastructure work is being done to modernize the roads, drainage, telecommunications and mains water systems whilst there are no international tourists. Yes, it is noisy, dusty and inconvenient with road closures but when completed will be of great benefit in the future when tourists return. I have been informed by Khmer friends that the river flowing through central Siem Reap, at the moment just a muddy trickle, will be dredged to provide a deeper channel with free flowing water so that tourist boats will be able to offer sightseeing tours. New embankment work is currently in progress. Own photo taken from my apartment of our street alongside Wat Bo in central Sala Kamreuk Commune:-  

Edited April 3, 2021 by Burma Bill
additional information

[Jingthing]

27 minutes ago, shdmn said:

What is the appeal of Kampot?  No beach, no shopping, few restaurants, and a few backpackers passing through on their way to Vietnam.  I would be bored to death there.  May as well just live in Issan.

Easy visa?

[balo]

14 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

She added that she learned that the couple has built a house in the isolated part of the barangay but it has a road in front of the house.

He probably built a house for her family, we can agree on that. 

But he is from the small town of Sandefjord here in Norway. He lived half the year in the Phils and spent the summer months in Norway .

I would think his wife also would be returning back with him after the pandemic . I really hope they find the murderer, some people will kill for $100.   I would never stay  in a remote area on an island over there.  You think it will never happen to you. 


        

[Leaver]

14 hours ago, mikebike said:

Their home country...

 

I don't think so.

 

Many came here to retire after finishing their working life.  Probably selling up assets in their home country before moving here. 

 

They came here with some money in their pocket and expecting a pleasant retirement.  They broke the simply, but goldens rules, and ended up broke, now drinking their days away in the cheapest bars they can find.   

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, Henryford said:

 

I agree it's a risk to commit to Thailand, certainly more so now than before. I took the risk 15 years ago and and more than happy i did. Even if they kicked me out now i probably have had my "moneys worth". If you are interested in the entertainment scene there is nowhere that compares to Thailand. If i was doing it now though i would think long and hard.

 

Do you think you would make the same decision in 2021 as you did 15 years ago?

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Do you think you would make the same decision in 2021 as you did 15 years ago?

That's a good point. Destination choice is definitely influenced by the current conditions in a country and also the persons age and circumstances. If I was expatriating for the first time now rather than long ago I seriously doubt it would be to Thailand.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Jingthing

[shdmn]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Easy visa?

But why Kampot?  There is nothing there.  I know about the national park and the river that is on some backpackers radar. That is not something people would choose as a reason to live there full time. 

 

It's a small isolated town with nothing that would appeal to expats as far as I can tell.  Not much of an airport and probably not much in the way of medical care either.  The only reason I can see is that it's probably cheaper than Sihanoukville.

Edited April 3, 2021 by shdmn

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

That's a good point. Destination choice is definitely influenced by the current conditions in a country and also the persons age and circumstances. If I was expatriating for the first time now rather than long ago I seriously doubt it would be to Thailand.

 

My question was more directed at the purchase of property here.  

 

I have said in the past that the next generation of western retirees will not be replacing the current generation in the numbers we have seen in the past.  

[swissie]

After 11 pages, we might as well "take inventory". If we put all the pro's and con's into a basket and shake it, what comes out? Thailand is still a very desirable place to be for Expats (if not number 1).

- Main complaint: Thai Visa hassle. Remedy: Use an agent that has been in business for 15 years or more. They will even do your 90 day reports for you. Annual cost: Around US$ 400. Problem solved.

 

A general observation: So called 3rd world countries have tightened Long-Term Visa Legislation. (or are in the process of doing so). Clearly favouring Expats with a solid financial background. This is a global trend and will not be reversed and is not limited to Thailand.

Will the Thais throw out all the Expats some fine day? Of course not! But the effort to "contain" the "foreign-influence" is clearly visible. (Tourists yes, long term residents rather not so). To softly push Expats in the direction of a revised form of an "Elite-Visa" is likely.
 
The much cited "Plan B":

- Most Expats fit the "old age bracket". To move to Cambodia/Laos/Philippines etc at this age is adventurous to say the least and it may turn out as their last "great life experience". = Receiving 2 Aspirins after having suffered a seizure at the nearest "Hospital". Welcome to "Stone-Age-Medicine". Is that scenario part of everyones "Plan B"?

[mikebike]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I don't think so.

 

Many came here to retire after finishing their working life.  Probably selling up assets in their home country before moving here. 

 

They came here with some money in their pocket and expecting a pleasant retirement.  They broke the simply, but goldens rules, and ended up broke, now drinking their days away in the cheapest bars they can find.   

In my experience, people seldom change their personalities at retirement age...

[Henryford]

13 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Do you think you would make the same decision in 2021 as you did 15 years ago?

 

No i wouldn't. The Thai baht is too strong (43 compared to 71 when i came here). The political situation is too risky.

[simon43]

[quote]

 Most Expats fit the "old age bracket". To move to Cambodia/Laos/Philippines etc at this age is adventurous to say the least and it may turn out as their last "great life experience". = Receiving 2 Aspirins after having suffered a seizure at the nearest "Hospital". Welcome to "Stone-Age-Medicine". Is that scenario part of everyones "Plan B"?

[/quote]

 

This is indeed an important issue.  Although (touch wood!), I'm fit and healthy now (touching 62 years old), that might not be the case in the future.  My plan B would probably be to move back to Thailand (from Laos), probably Pattaya, where I'm close to decent hospitals (covered by my insurance), and can easily indulge in my fantasies that require lots of baby lotion and red rubber gloves....

Edited April 4, 2021 by simon43

[BritManToo]

12 hours ago, swissie said:

A general observation: So called 3rd world countries have tightened Long-Term Visa Legislation. (or are in the process of doing so). Clearly favouring Expats with a solid financial background. This is a global trend and will not be reversed and is not limited to Thailand.

i think covid will have changed their picky attitudes to people bringing foreign exchange.

there's gonna be a lot of empty property for the next five years

and even before covid Philippines and Cambodia were making it easier not harder

 

as far as i know only Thailand was making it harder, and that was more due to the military love for china and hatred for the west

Edited April 4, 2021 by BritManToo