Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Arkady]

16 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Does anyone know of General Anupong remains as the Minister of Interior?

 

Your roughly the same time as me from since paperwork was sent. I was told last March.

However, I'm only 16 months since application. Just shows there are no hard and fast times.

 

 

 

Gen Anuphong is still interior minister, although technically in caretaker status following the election. In past that has sometimes meant that minister’s didn’t sign anything but this government doesn’t seem to feel constraints of that type.

[qualtrough]

null

On 4/8/2019 at 9:31 AM, MrPatrickThai said:

Oh, not true, I'm a man! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_gFF-z9OS8

[Big Guns]

I've been a Thai citizen for 1 and a half years now and my biggest frustration occurred yesterday. I wonder if anyone more knowledgeable has any useful suggestions. I was informed by Rayong tax department that they no longer issue cheques for tax rebates and I had to register for prompt pay. I used my SCB App and it wouldn't let me register. I trotted along to my SCB branch to be told that my account stated I had a British passport (despite the fact I had made an appointment at that branch and changed the status 3 months ago). They told me to return the next day which I did and brought my doccumentation to show I was a Thai national and the Royal Gazette publication. I sat in the bank for an hour. Finally I received a phone call from a person at SCB to say that prompt pay was for Thai people only and I wasn't Thai I'd only changed nationality. My wife spoke to them and it transpires that because my Thai ID number starts with the number 8 and not a 3 prompt pay which was created by the BOT won't accept it. Is this just incompetence by the BOT or am I a 2nd class citizen? Any suggestions would be welcomed.

[GarryP]

12 minutes ago, Big Guns said:

I've been a Thai citizen for 1 and a half years now and my biggest frustration occurred yesterday. I wonder if anyone more knowledgeable has any useful suggestions. I was informed by Rayong tax department that they no longer issue cheques for tax rebates and I had to register for prompt pay. I used my SCB App and it wouldn't let me register. I trotted along to my SCB branch to be told that my account stated I had a British passport (despite the fact I had made an appointment at that branch and changed the status 3 months ago). They told me to return the next day which I did and brought my doccumentation to show I was a Thai national and the Royal Gazette publication. I sat in the bank for an hour. Finally I received a phone call from a person at SCB to say that prompt pay was for Thai people only and I wasn't Thai I'd only changed nationality. My wife spoke to them and it transpires that because my Thai ID number starts with the number 8 and not a 3 prompt pay which was created by the BOT won't accept it. Is this just incompetence by the BOT or am I a 2nd class citizen? Any suggestions would be welcomed.

Pardon my French, but ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. The bank does not know what it is talking about. I bank with Bangkok Bank and updated my records two or so years ago after I gained Thai citizenship. I also signed up for PromptPay for the very same reason as you. I was waiting and waiting for my tax rebate check, but because it was taking so long I decided to go with PromptPay. I signed up and within a couple of days my account was credited with my tax rebate. This year again, no problem, my account was credited with my rebate. Like you and all the rest of us, my Thai ID starts with 8. It is absolutely no problem with PromptPay. It is purely incompetence of your bank. They are giving you false information. 

 

    

[yankee99]

27 minutes ago, Big Guns said:

I've been a Thai citizen for 1 and a half years now and my biggest frustration occurred yesterday. I wonder if anyone more knowledgeable has any useful suggestions. I was informed by Rayong tax department that they no longer issue cheques for tax rebates and I had to register for prompt pay. I used my SCB App and it wouldn't let me register. I trotted along to my SCB branch to be told that my account stated I had a British passport (despite the fact I had made an appointment at that branch and changed the status 3 months ago). They told me to return the next day which I did and brought my doccumentation to show I was a Thai national and the Royal Gazette publication. I sat in the bank for an hour. Finally I received a phone call from a person at SCB to say that prompt pay was for Thai people only and I wasn't Thai I'd only changed nationality. My wife spoke to them and it transpires that because my Thai ID number starts with the number 8 and not a 3 prompt pay which was created by the BOT won't accept it. Is this just incompetence by the BOT or am I a 2nd class citizen? Any suggestions would be welcomed.

I am not thai and have prompt pay with kasikorn also for tax refund. I set it up online or the app and my telephone number cant remember exactly. Just open a another account which will probably save you some aggravation 

[Big Guns]

Cheers Garry I feel a lot better being the victim of commercial bank incompetence rather than racism from the Central Bank. I've just literally sent and email to the Bank of Thailand asking for confirmation of their position. If SCB can't resolve this I'll be shifting to Bangkok Bank.

[aidenai]

3 hours ago, Big Guns said:

My wife spoke to them and it transpires that because my Thai ID number starts with the number 8 and not a 3 prompt pay which was created by the BOT won't accept it. Is this just incompetence by the BOT or am I a 2nd class citizen? Any suggestions would be welcomed.

SCB really don't know what they are talking about. I have had PromptPay since it was first introduced. However, my PromptPay account is linked to my mobile phone number. In my case the Revenue Department wanted it to be linked to my Thai ID. No problem. Went to my bank, KrungThai, and a second PromptPay account based on my Thai ID has been added.

[NewlyMintedThai]

If they can’t figure it out, open a new account at a new bank. Problem solved!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Big Guns]

After doing some research & talking to a friend who is a bank exec it turns out the issue isn't with BOT. SCB are misinforming me. In fact the Thai ID card can start with the digits 1-9 SCB simply haven't applied for number 8 for their Promptpay (which naturalised Thai citizens have) & there would be a cost involved with changing it. I'll try Kasikorn next week as I have an account there.

[yankee99]

1 hour ago, Big Guns said:

After doing some research & talking to a friend who is a bank exec it turns out the issue isn't with BOT. SCB are misinforming me. In fact the Thai ID card can start with the digits 1-9 SCB simply haven't applied for number 8 for their Promptpay (which naturalised Thai citizens have) & there would be a cost involved with changing it. I'll try Kasikorn next week as I have an account there.

Kasikorn can be done online and you can use your phone number in lieu of a id. 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, Big Guns said:

After doing some research & talking to a friend who is a bank exec it turns out the issue isn't with BOT. SCB are misinforming me. In fact the Thai ID card can start with the digits 1-9 SCB simply haven't applied for number 8 for their Promptpay (which naturalised Thai citizens have) & there would be a cost involved with changing it. I'll try Kasikorn next week as I have an account there.

I am sure there that Promptpay is available to all Thai ID cards with no additional cost to the bank due to the ID card prefixes.  It is also available to foreigners.  If there really is a cost, it can't be significant and they should pay it.  At other banks you can sign up without fuss for Promptpay online or at ATM machines, regardless of ID card prefix.  

[Arkady]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:32 AM, Big Guns said:

I've been a Thai citizen for 1 and a half years now and my biggest frustration occurred yesterday. I wonder if anyone more knowledgeable has any useful suggestions. I was informed by Rayong tax department that they no longer issue cheques for tax rebates and I had to register for prompt pay. I used my SCB App and it wouldn't let me register. I trotted along to my SCB branch to be told that my account stated I had a British passport (despite the fact I had made an appointment at that branch and changed the status 3 months ago). They told me to return the next day which I did and brought my doccumentation to show I was a Thai national and the Royal Gazette publication. I sat in the bank for an hour. Finally I received a phone call from a person at SCB to say that prompt pay was for Thai people only and I wasn't Thai I'd only changed nationality. My wife spoke to them and it transpires that because my Thai ID number starts with the number 8 and not a 3 prompt pay which was created by the BOT won't accept it. Is this just incompetence by the BOT or am I a 2nd class citizen? Any suggestions would be welcomed.

 

That person at the bank should have been asked to explain what is the legal difference between Thai people and those who have merely changed their nationality to Thai, supporting their argument with citations from the constitution and Nationality Act.

[Neeranam]

I had a funny situation at the tax office yesterday. There is a foreigner fast track desk, as the woman there is married to a foreigner.

 

However, there were Thais at the counter so I took a ticket as there were a couple of vacant desks. A woman came up to me and using sign language told me to put it back and go to the foreigner desk. I said that I spoke Thai and not to be scared. She would have none of it and asked me where my wife was!! I asked why, as she doesn't work!

 

 

Hopefully, next year I'll be able to use the foreign desk, as a Thai.

 

I had to pay the being late fee by my mobile Krung Thai app.

 

They said they no longer send cheques, but would send the refund to my bank account. I don't think I have prompt pay.

No doubt, I'll have to go back.

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:32 AM, Big Guns said:

Finally I received a phone call from a person at SCB to say that prompt pay was for Thai people only and I wasn't Thai I'd only changed nationality.

Personally, I'd put this on social media, and formally complain to the bank.

 

[bkk_bwana]

Citizenship is based on a points system.  Having a yellow book is not on the list of requisites. For the sake of a couple of trips to Bangkok, which you have to do anyway, there is no use in trying to beat the system.  Don't underestimate how much they know about you!

[bkk_bwana]

32 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Personally, I'd put this on social media, and formally complain to the bank.

 

To register for Prompt Pay you need a 13 digit ID number.  Nothing to do with nationality.

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, bkk_bwana said:

  Having a yellow book is not on the list of requisites. 

Yes, it is.

[ubonjoe]

53 minutes ago, bkk_bwana said:

To register for Prompt Pay you need a 13 digit ID number.  Nothing to do with nationality.

I am registered for Prompt Pay without a ID number. I have Bangkok Bank accounts and registered when it first started to keep them from bugging me about doing it.

[dbrenn]

On 4/11/2019 at 12:32 PM, Big Guns said:

Finally I received a phone call from a person at SCB to say that prompt pay was for Thai people only and I wasn't Thai I'd only changed nationality. 

I registered Prompt pay with SCB without any problems, so it sounds like you have encountered one ignorant employee making up an excuse, rather than a bank policy. If people hesitate when I exercise my rights as a Thai, (which very seldom happens) I explain ever so politely, and with reverence, that his Majesty King Bhumibol very graciously approved my Thai citizenship by signing it into law. I like to see their blood boil when I tell them that this means I am legally no different from them, and that we are all subordinate to the law and have no choice but to obey it. Works for me though, and they do what they have to do.

 

Either raise hell with the employee's manager or just open another account using your Thai ID. Takes just a few minutes. I actually converted all my bank accounts into Thai ones by showing my Thai ID as a replacement for my British passport that was used to open them.

[yankee99]

2 hours ago, bkk_bwana said:

Citizenship is based on a points system.  Having a yellow book is not on the list of requisites. For the sake of a couple of trips to Bangkok, which you have to do anyway, there is no use in trying to beat the system.  Don't underestimate how much they know about you!

Points is only one of the many requirements. If they don't require a yellow book from you i guess you are lucky. I believe everyone here that has applied needed a book. 

[GarryP]

43 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

Points is only one of the many requirements. If they don't require a yellow book from you i guess you are lucky. I believe everyone here that has applied needed a book. 

Yes, I was informed that I could not apply without one. I no longer have the document list, but it was definitely listed there. 

Just found a list on the Special Branch website and posted it below. I accept no responsibility for the content.

 

Tasks to acquire Thai nationality
Tel : 02-205-1901  , 02-252-1714
Documents that are required when applying for Thai nationality
1	Five (5) copies of the Alien Book (every page that has information recorded)
2	Five (5) copies of the Certificate of Residence (every page that has information recorded)
3	Five (5) copies of the Work Permit (every page that has information recorded)
4	Five (5) copies of the House Registration for the whole family (Applicant, partner and  any children)
5	Five (5) copies of the  Passport , including old Passports  (every page that has information recorded)
6	Twelve (12) Photohraps, 2x2.5 showing the applicant dressed politely (Males dressed in suit
	with necktie and Females dressed politely )
7	Five (5) copies of the Marriage Registration (Translated into Thai in case of foreign language)
8	Proof of Money Deposit in the bank of certificate from the bank that money has been
	deposited (Should not be less than 80,000 Baht)
9	Proof of Charity Donation (Not less than 5,000 Baht and the money should be donation
	long time ago and not just in time to support the citizenship application)
10	Proof of filling Personal Income Tax  (PND 91)  for the applicant during the 3 previous years.
	Has to be certified and stamped bye the Revenue Department  Please note that if the application
	is filed in the beginning of the year, you have to wait until around March to get the PND 91 for
	the previous year.
11	One(1) copy of  Proof of Company Registration for the commercial establishment where the
	the applicant working, such as Affidavit Licenses Certificate of Company Registration,List of
	Shareholders , Value-Added Tax Registration Certificate(PP20) and other related documents
12	Copy of Corporate Tax (PND50)for the previous 3 years in the case the applicant has shares in a
.	limited liability company or partnership. Please note that if the application is file in the beginning of the
	year, then you have to wait until around March to get the PND 50 for the previous year.
	the previous year.
13	Letter of Employment that state position of the applicant in accordance with the work permit and
.	monthly salary in accordance with filed taxes for the year the application is filed, from the company
	the applicant working. The Letter must be signed by an authorized person in the Companny
14	Two (2) copies of the Personal ID Card or Alien book of the married partner
15	One(1) copy of Children's Birth  Certificate.if the applicant has change names or surnames
	document elating to these must  also be provided. Evidence of Education for each child.
16	One(1) copy of Personal IDCard and House Registration for (2)grantor who guarantee
	the applicant's behavior and assets (2 persons that are not relatives )
17	Certificate of Legal Age according to the laws in the applicants country of origin (Certified by
	Embassy or Consult ). Translated to Thai.

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, bkk_bwana said:

To register for Prompt Pay you need a 13 digit ID number.  Nothing to do with nationality.

Or a phone number.  Although I expect that would not work for tax rebates.

[bkk_bwana]

16 hours ago, GarryP said:

Yes, I was informed that I could not apply without one. I no longer have the document list, but it was definitely listed there. 

Just found a list on the Special Branch website and posted it below. I accept no responsibility for the content.

 

Tasks to acquire Thai nationality
Tel : 02-205-1901  , 02-252-1714
Documents that are required when applying for Thai nationality
1	Five (5) copies of the Alien Book (every page that has information recorded)
2	Five (5) copies of the Certificate of Residence (every page that has information recorded)
3	Five (5) copies of the Work Permit (every page that has information recorded)
4	Five (5) copies of the House Registration for the whole family (Applicant, partner and  any children)
5	Five (5) copies of the  Passport , including old Passports  (every page that has information recorded)
6	Twelve (12) Photohraps, 2x2.5 showing the applicant dressed politely (Males dressed in suit
	with necktie and Females dressed politely )
7	Five (5) copies of the Marriage Registration (Translated into Thai in case of foreign language)
8	Proof of Money Deposit in the bank of certificate from the bank that money has been
	deposited (Should not be less than 80,000 Baht)
9	Proof of Charity Donation (Not less than 5,000 Baht and the money should be donation
	long time ago and not just in time to support the citizenship application)
10	Proof of filling Personal Income Tax  (PND 91)  for the applicant during the 3 previous years.
	Has to be certified and stamped bye the Revenue Department  Please note that if the application
	is filed in the beginning of the year, you have to wait until around March to get the PND 91 for
	the previous year.
11	One(1) copy of  Proof of Company Registration for the commercial establishment where the
	the applicant working, such as Affidavit Licenses Certificate of Company Registration,List of
	Shareholders , Value-Added Tax Registration Certificate(PP20) and other related documents
12	Copy of Corporate Tax (PND50)for the previous 3 years in the case the applicant has shares in a
.	limited liability company or partnership. Please note that if the application is file in the beginning of the
	year, then you have to wait until around March to get the PND 50 for the previous year.
	the previous year.
13	Letter of Employment that state position of the applicant in accordance with the work permit and
.	monthly salary in accordance with filed taxes for the year the application is filed, from the company
	the applicant working. The Letter must be signed by an authorized person in the Companny
14	Two (2) copies of the Personal ID Card or Alien book of the married partner
15	One(1) copy of Children's Birth  Certificate.if the applicant has change names or surnames
	document elating to these must  also be provided. Evidence of Education for each child.
16	One(1) copy of Personal IDCard and House Registration for (2)grantor who guarantee
	the applicant's behavior and assets (2 persons that are not relatives )
17	Certificate of Legal Age according to the laws in the applicants country of origin (Certified by
	Embassy or Consult ). Translated to Thai.

 

[bkk_bwana]

Interesting list.  It has certainly changed since I applied.  I guess like all these things to do with immigration, the rules and guidelines change all the time.

[bkk_bwana]

13 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Or a phone number.  Although I expect that would not work for tax rebates.

Interesting.  Since the Prompt Pay is linked to your bank account it should work for tax rebates too.... but who knows?

[jacko45k]

Just now, bkk_bwana said:

Interesting.  Since the Prompt Pay is linked to your bank account it should work for tax rebates too.... but who knows?

I recently did a tax rebate (my first) and found a bank worker who spoke really great English. I asked why I could not get the refund paid via Promptpay (which I had with another bank) and he said it was only for Thais. 

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, bkk_bwana said:

Interesting list.  It has certainly changed since I applied.  I guess like all these things to do with immigration, the rules and guidelines change all the time.

Actually nothing to do with Immigration which is not involved with the citizenship process in any way. The legal situation is, in fact, quite different. The 1975 Immigration Act is distinctly lacking in detail but provides for details to be filled in via National Police Orders which have the force of law. That means that Immigration procedures can be changed at the drop of hat. In fact nearly all the types of visa that exist today apart from tourist visas and permanent residence have been added via police orders without the need to amend the Immigration Act.

 

In contrast the 1965 Nationality Act has a lot more detail and can only be amended through acts of parliament.  Guidelines are issued infrequently by the Interior Ministry but don't actually have the force of law, unless they are ministerial regulations, as specifically provided for in the act, which they are not.  As far as I am aware, the last time the guidelines were amended was in 2009 to take into account the new provisions of the 2008 amendment of the Nationality Act by parliament that specifically provided for foreign males married to Thai women to obtain Thai nationality without 5 years' residence in the Kingdom (i.e. without permanent residence) and without knowledge of the Thai language (i.e. without having to sing the National and Royal Anthems).  However, since the guidelines are no longer to be found on SB's website, I can't be sure that there has been no change.

[Arkady]

Following Garry's post I visited SB's website and noticed that all the details to do with applying for citizenship, including the guidelines have been taken taken down.  All that is left is an Excel file listing the required documents in unspellchecked English, e.g. "Twelve (12) Photohraps, 2x2.5". The file is named in English "Tasks to acquire Thai nationality" in the website and upon saving it the name appears as "คำแนะนำ-ภาษาอังกฤษ" or "Guidelines - English", implying that it is taken from a larger guidelines file that is not posted in its entirety.

 

Most interestingly, the document that was item 17 in the 2009 list is omitted from the current list.  That is "17. Affidavit from applicant’s embassy or consulate in Thailand that demonstrates the applicant’s intention to renounce his current nationality when his application for Thai nationality is approved." Is there any significance to this omission I wonder, or was it just another error along with the copious spelling mistakes that indicate particularly slipshod work?  All the other points are effectively the same as the previous list with some slight differences in wording and enumeration.

 

BTW a house registration book has always been required to apply for nationality. If you are a permanent resident, it is a blue book. Otherwise it is a yellow book.

 

[qualtrough]

I am in the process of waiting for the MOI interview. To speed up the citizenship process I changed my yellow book to the address of a relative living in Bangkok. This was at the suggestion of the SB people. Do the people living at the yellow book address there need to notify people that I am living there? My wife and I have never done that in 25 years. I would hate to get tripped up by something like that. Nobody mentioned or asked for that during my application process to date. If so, it is quite an imposition on those people if they have to file a report every so often.

[THAIJAMES]

No don't worry it's completely unrelated.

Also you can have a yellow book in Bangkok but live somewhere else it's very normal for Thais to do that with the blue book.