Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[GarryP]

11 hours ago, Neeranam said:

So the 432 baht for social security is no use?

Depending on where you live, with social security you can select the hospital you use. You can only change this once a year though. However, for the 30 Baht health scheme it is tied to your house registration. You do not get a choice. For example, my social security healthcare is now tied to Hua Chiew Hospital (I could not get in at some of the other hospitals I wanted as they are already full and not accepting new social security members so I chose this one). If, however, I stopped paying into social security, my health care would fall with Public Health Center 21 Wat Thattong (unless there have been any recent changes). This is a small medical center near Ekamai. It only provides limited service and is far from being a hospital. It refers cases out to other hospitals in the 30 Baht scheme if they are unable to handle them themselves. It is not a place I would choose if I had the option. I am not saying it is bad as I know several people who have used its services and are happy with it, but its coverage is really very limited and some of the doctors seem to have been brought out of retirement. 

 

Having said that, from my experience yesterday at Chulalongkorn Hospital, I am seriously considering private insurance. It had nothing to do with the doctors and nurses as some of them are truly great. But it was absolutely packed; overflowing with people on the 30 Baht and social security schemes. I got there at 4:30 a.m. and there were at least 50 people already there in line waiting for the queue number machines to open at 5:30. By the time the machines opened there must have been 200 people or more and these were just the people that did not have prior appointments. The place was like a cattle market by 7:30. I left at 8:00 as the doctor I wanted to meet was not going to come in for some reason. I ended up catching the BTS and going to Sukumvit Hospital, where I normally go and is covered by my employers' insurance.

 

This is definitely a subject I will look into in more detail as I will be moving upcountry on retirement and I may not have much choice, if any, under the social security scheme. Under the 30Baht scheme I would be tied to a hospital that is about 300 meters from where I will be living, assuming I move my house registration from Bangkok. It is a 10 or 15 bed small town hospital with only 1 or 2 doctors. Fine for normal everyday maladies and accidents but not for anything serious. 

 

Apologies for going on so long. Did not mean to derail the topic, but it is something that new citizens should consider.             

[echrist]

21 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Could you get more than one? I've heard that can be useful.

I think you can only get one, but you can just copy the original and use it whenever it is needed. You may have to show the original but then submit a copy. I suppose you can always ask for 2. The certificate itself is kind of plain and boring. Nothing that is worth framing, in my opinion. 

[Neeranam]

13 hours ago, GarryP said:

Depending on where you live, with social security you can select the hospital you use. You can only change this once a year though. However, for the 30 Baht health scheme it is tied to your house registration. You do not get a choice. For example, my social security healthcare is now tied to Hua Chiew Hospital (I could not get in at some of the other hospitals I wanted as they are already full and not accepting new social security members so I chose this one). If, however, I stopped paying into social security, my health care would fall with Public Health Center 21 Wat Thattong (unless there have been any recent changes). This is a small medical center near Ekamai. It only provides limited service and is far from being a hospital. It refers cases out to other hospitals in the 30 Baht scheme if they are unable to handle them themselves. It is not a place I would choose if I had the option. I am not saying it is bad as I know several people who have used its services and are happy with it, but its coverage is really very limited and some of the doctors seem to have been brought out of retirement. 

 

Having said that, from my experience yesterday at Chulalongkorn Hospital, I am seriously considering private insurance. It had nothing to do with the doctors and nurses as some of them are truly great. But it was absolutely packed; overflowing with people on the 30 Baht and social security schemes. I got there at 4:30 a.m. and there were at least 50 people already there in line waiting for the queue number machines to open at 5:30. By the time the machines opened there must have been 200 people or more and these were just the people that did not have prior appointments. The place was like a cattle market by 7:30. I left at 8:00 as the doctor I wanted to meet was not going to come in for some reason. I ended up catching the BTS and going to Sukumvit Hospital, where I normally go and is covered by my employers' insurance.

 

This is definitely a subject I will look into in more detail as I will be moving upcountry on retirement and I may not have much choice, if any, under the social security scheme. Under the 30Baht scheme I would be tied to a hospital that is about 300 meters from where I will be living, assuming I move my house registration from Bangkok. It is a 10 or 15 bed small town hospital with only 1 or 2 doctors. Fine for normal everyday maladies and accidents but not for anything serious. 

 

Apologies for going on so long. Did not mean to derail the topic, but it is something that new citizens should consider.             

Thanks a lot, very helpful.

[Big Guns]

Linking in to the social security topic I've been a Thai citizen for 2 years now but as a teacher a an international school I'm excluded from social security as the government removed private & international schools from the social security scheme. The only exception is if the school volunarily joins. Is there any way I personally can opt in?

[GarryP]

5 hours ago, Big Guns said:

Linking in to the social security topic I've been a Thai citizen for 2 years now but as a teacher a an international school I'm excluded from social security as the government removed private & international schools from the social security scheme. The only exception is if the school volunarily joins. Is there any way I personally can opt in?

It is my understanding that teachers do not qualify at all as per section 4, item (4)

 

Section 4: This Act shall not apply to (1), (2), (3), (4) teachers or headmasters of private schools under the law on private schools, (5) and (6)

 

However, it would be worth checking whether you can voluntarily join under Section 40 of the Social Security Act, which is for independent workers and 'workers outside the system', such as motorcycle taxis, market traders, independent laborers, etc. Originally the benefits under this section were much lower than those granted to employees of companies under the scheme, however, I understand that recently they have improved to be nearly equal to standard employee rights.

 

It seems so wrong to me that private teachers are not covered and schools are not forced to pay in to the scheme. However, once you retire you will at least qualify for the 30 Baht scheme.   

[echrist]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

It is my understanding that teachers do not qualify at all as per section 4, item (4)

 

Section 4: This Act shall not apply to (1), (2), (3), (4) teachers or headmasters of private schools under the law on private schools, (5) and (6)

 

However, it would be worth checking whether you can voluntarily join under Section 40 of the Social Security Act, which is for independent workers and 'workers outside the system', such as motorcycle taxis, market traders, independent laborers, etc. Originally the benefits under this section were much lower than those granted to employees of companies under the scheme, however, I understand that recently they have improved to be nearly equal to standard employee rights.

 

It seems so wrong to me that private teachers are not covered and schools are not forced to pay in to the scheme. However, once you retire you will at least qualify for the 30 Baht scheme.   

Is it also true that directors of companies do not qualify? 

Edited November 16, 2019 by echrist

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, echrist said:

Is it also true that directors of companies do not qualify? 

I can't see anything in the Act. However, I think that a director would be classified as an employer rather than an employee, in which case he/she would not be covered. You should check with the SSO office. 

[Neeranam]

How long does it take from the MoI interview these days until getting ID card?

[cmsally]

10 hours ago, Neeranam said:

How long does it take from the MoI interview these days until getting ID card?

So far 18 months since I passed interview and paperwork sent off to BKK. There was another round of successful female applicants announced just a few weeks ago, but I wasn't on it!

[echrist]

For all the history buffs, is there any record of the number of people from each nationality that have attained Thai citizenship (a historical list from the last 50 - 100 years, for example)? 

 

 

[echrist]

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

How long does it take from the MoI interview these days until getting ID card?

Mine took 14 months

[Neeranam]

21 hours ago, cmsally said:

So far 18 months since I passed interview and paperwork sent off to BKK. There was another round of successful female applicants announced just a few weeks ago, but I wasn't on it!

Thanks. How long has it been since you took the oath?

[cmsally]

Haven't taken an oath. I was told after file sent to BKK then I just wait for my name to be announced.

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Haven't taken an oath. I was told after file sent to BKK then I just wait for my name to be announced.

I thought everyone had to do the oath.

 

[danielcondo]

Whats the average wait between RG announcements for men ? last one came out in Aug 

[cmsally]

22 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I thought everyone had to do the oath.

 

So did I, I think I will just wait and see on that. But the head police guy who did everything said no. Very confusing.

[echrist]

30 minutes ago, cmsally said:

So did I, I think I will just wait and see on that. But the head police guy who did everything said no. Very confusing.

Maybe it's incorrect, but I heard women did not have to take the oath since they are considered as adopting their husband's citizenship instead of changing their citizenship. 

[cmsally]

21 minutes ago, echrist said:

Maybe it's incorrect, but I heard women did not have to take the oath since they are considered as adopting their husband's citizenship instead of changing their citizenship. 

That was the conclusion I reached too. Will have to see if it is true.

[samran]

21 minutes ago, echrist said:

Maybe it's incorrect, but I heard women did not have to take the oath since they are considered as adopting their husband's citizenship instead of changing their citizenship. 

That’s correct. My wife didn’t have to take the oath. Once it was announced  in the RG the you wait a few weeks for SB to basically give you an offical letter with the RG announcement printed as an addendum. You then take that to the district office and get the house registration and ID card sorted. 

[samran]

On 11/16/2019 at 11:50 AM, Big Guns said:

Linking in to the social security topic I've been a Thai citizen for 2 years now but as a teacher a an international school I'm excluded from social security as the government removed private & international schools from the social security scheme. The only exception is if the school volunarily joins. Is there any way I personally can opt in?

It’s a good topic. 
 

I run my own business and as a director I’m not eligible. I’m thinking of putting myself down as an employee of a friends company and get into the SS system that way. 
 

I’ll essentially pay it. His company can invoice mine, and then his company pays me a salary with SS deductions made. Do this for 6 months or a year whatever the minimum time needed is, ‘quit’ the job and then continue to make voluntary contributions.

 

We have good private insurance and always intend to do so, but having the SS as a back up isn’t a bad thing.

[Neeranam]

12 minutes ago, samran said:

I’ll essentially pay it. His company can invoice mine, and then his company pays me a salary with SS deductions made. Do this for 6 months or a year whatever the minimum time needed is, ‘quit’ the job and then continue to make voluntary contributions.

Don't quote me, but I heard it was 15 months you must work.

[Neeranam]

44 minutes ago, echrist said:

Maybe it's incorrect, but I heard women did not have to take the oath since they are considered as adopting their husband's citizenship instead of changing their citizenship. 

So much for sexual equality!

[Neeranam]

Coincidentally,  I took my daugter to a local hospital after she got bitten by a dog. 

She didnt have any ID and was charged 30 baht. She looks 18+. I tried to intervene by showing my Social Security card, but was basically ignored, as usual.

[cmsally]

15 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Don't quote me, but I heard it was 15 months you must work.

It used to be 13 months contributions. A lot of people used to get caught out as they pulled out at 12 months!!

[GarryP]

11 minutes ago, cmsally said:

It used to be 13 months contributions. A lot of people used to get caught out as they pulled out at 12 months!!

Section 39. Any person who is an insured person under section 33, has paid contribution for a period of not less than twelve months and, subsequently ceases to be insured person in pursuance of section 38(2)*, if such person wishes to continually be insured person, he or she shall, within six months from the date of his or her termination to be insured person, notify his or her statement to the Office according to the regulations prescribed by the Secretary – General.

 

*38 (2) cessation of being an employee.

 

Whatever you do, always check the the Social Security Office first as new subordinate regulations are issued from time to time. 

[cmsally]

3 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Section 39. Any person who is an insured person under section 33, has paid contribution for a period of not less than twelve months and, subsequently ceases to be insured person in pursuance of section 38(2)*, if such person wishes to continually be insured person, he or she shall, within six months from the date of his or her termination to be insured person, notify his or her statement to the Office according to the regulations prescribed by the Secretary – General.

 

*38 (2) cessation of being an employee.

 

Whatever you do, always check the the Social Security Office first as new subordinate regulations are issued from time to time. 

I remember an American friend being rejected and told she needed 13 months instead of the 12 months paid for on her year contract!

[GarryP]

1 minute ago, cmsally said:

I remember an American friend being rejected and told she needed 13 months instead of the 12 months paid for on her year contract!

I don't doubt you at all. Hence, I said to always check with SSO first. You also need to stand your ground in instances such as this as sometimes even some officers are not up to date or just don't know.

 

In my case it was Immigration. Two officers on reception at Chaengwattana told me that I was in Thailand illegally as my extension based on marriage immediately expired upon the death of my wife. I was very shaken by that, but in my heart I knew my visa remained in force up to the next extension date ( I subsequently extended based on employment). What made it even more frightening was that my citizenship application was still under consideration and it was touch and go whether I still qualified.     

[Neeranam]

28 minutes ago, GarryP said:

if such person wishes to continually be insured person, he or she shall, within six months from the date of his or her termination to be insured person, notify his or her statement to the Office according to the regulations prescribed

Good news, I heard I has to apply 1 month  after leaving my job. They told me Iast week that I have to wait until I get the lump sum payment, which could take a month, before applying for continuation of insurance.

[Medinitas]

Hi all,

 

For some time, being able to apply for Thai residence is an objective. The problem is that I cannot fulfill the salary requirement. Also, the company where I am working will not help me with the documents. The only thing I can think of is to open a company in my wife's name and that she hire me with a salary higher than 40,000B. Do you know if it is possible? Could I get a work permit with a Non O Marriage Visa in my wife's company with a job that a foreigner is qualified to work? Do you think this may be a good idea? Do you have a better idea? Could I have problems in the application when they see that I am working in my wife's company?

 

Thank you very much.

[yankee99]

2 minutes ago, Medinitas said:

Hi all,

 

For some time, being able to apply for Thai residence is an objective. The problem is that I cannot fulfill the salary requirement. Also, the company where I am working will not help me with the documents. The only thing I can think of is to open a company in my wife's name and that she hire me with a salary higher than 40,000B. Do you know if it is possible? Could I get a work permit with a Non O Marriage Visa in my wife's company with a job that a foreigner is qualified to work? Do you think this may be a good idea? Do you have a better idea? Could I have problems in the application when they see that I am working in my wife's company?

 

Thank you very much.

You can definitely apply that way. This will need to be a real company filling taxes and doing real business. 

 

SB said they're going to visit my wife's company but never did.