Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[NewlyMintedThai]

The King's signature does appear on the document. Whether he actually signed it himself, or if it was signed by a secretary or a machine...who knows.

[PattayaPhom]

100 pages. Quick question. When is best time to apply as tax payments are crucial. ?

[Chrisbinbkk]

100 pages. Quick question. When is best time to apply as tax payments are crucial. ?

I dont tgunk it matters as long as you got your past tax returns in there... I am handing mine in next month, and then prepare for a few years of waiting

[samran]

You'll need the tax papers for the previous year. So if you apply January 2015 you'll need your 2014 tax return done too.

[PattayaPhom]

You'll need the tax papers for the previous year. So if you apply January 2015 you'll need your 2014 tax return done too.

THX

[Arkady]

You'll need the tax papers for the previous year. So if you apply January 2015 you'll need your 2014 tax return done too.

THX

If you have three years' of tax receipts, you can apply any time but, if you are getting to the end of the year, bear in mind you will probably be asked for more documents that take you some time and take into the next January which will mean you have to get the latest tax year notarised. You can file for tax as soon as you get the tax document certifying the amount of tax deducted from your company, usually by end January, and it will usually take a couple of weeks or more for the RD to process it and be able issue you the notarised tax receipt you need. Bear in mind that the monthly salary shown in your letter of employment times 12 needs to match the income you have paid tax on for the last of the 3 years' tax returns you submit. No point in arguing that you got a pay rise or bonus or have submitted a joint tax return with your wife. They want to see evidence that the two match. At least that was my experience but check with SB first that is still the case. This type of wrinkle is another reason for applying in Bkk, as provincial offices are unlikely to know about this sort of thing which can get you rejected or knocked back by the MOI for further verification of documents.

[GarryP]

You'll need the tax papers for the previous year. So if you apply January 2015 you'll need your 2014 tax return done too.

THX

If you have three years' of tax receipts, you can apply any time but, if you are getting to the end of the year, bear in mind you will probably be asked for more documents that take you some time and take into the next January which will mean you have to get the latest tax year notarised. You can file for tax as soon as you get the tax document certifying the amount of tax deducted from your company, usually by end January, and it will usually take a couple of weeks or more for the RD to process it and be able issue you the notarised tax receipt you need. Bear in mind that the monthly salary shown in your letter of employment times 12 needs to match the income you have paid tax on for the last of the 3 years' tax returns you submit. No point in arguing that you got a pay rise or bonus or have submitted a joint tax return with your wife. They want to see evidence that the two match. At least that was my experience but check with SB first that is still the case. This type of wrinkle is another reason for applying in Bkk, as provincial offices are unlikely to know about this sort of thing which can get you rejected or knocked back by the MOI for further verification of documents.

Yes, this applied to me. I had to include my bonus and then divide by 12 when preparing my salary confirmation letter. This was so that it conformed with my tax return.

[Cheops]

You'll need the tax papers for the previous year. So if you apply January 2015 you'll need your 2014 tax return done too.

THX

If you have three years' of tax receipts, you can apply any time but, if you are getting to the end of the year, bear in mind you will probably be asked for more documents that take you some time and take into the next January which will mean you have to get the latest tax year notarised. You can file for tax as soon as you get the tax document certifying the amount of tax deducted from your company, usually by end January, and it will usually take a couple of weeks or more for the RD to process it and be able issue you the notarised tax receipt you need. Bear in mind that the monthly salary shown in your letter of employment times 12 needs to match the income you have paid tax on for the last of the 3 years' tax returns you submit. No point in arguing that you got a pay rise or bonus or have submitted a joint tax return with your wife. They want to see evidence that the two match. At least that was my experience but check with SB first that is still the case. This type of wrinkle is another reason for applying in Bkk, as provincial offices are unlikely to know about this sort of thing which can get you rejected or knocked back by the MOI for further verification of documents.

Yes, this applied to me. I had to include my bonus and then divide by 12 when preparing my salary confirmation letter. This was so that it conformed with my tax return.

How can you manage this when the salary rises on yearly base, meaning that of course the salary which I paid tax on 3 years ago was based on the salary before 2 or 3 increases??? I can manage a salary confirmation letter which include the bonus (does the bonus really needs to be added in the monthly salary and can't it just say the monthly salary = blabla and the bonus is blabla ??) for 1 year, but how to manage this for 3 years back?

Oh, and how to manage then some special bonus or overtime payment which are far from regular? Of course those will be included in the tax payment, but not on the salary confirmation letter.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Cheops

[Arkady]

The MOI just needs to see a letter confirming that your current monthly salary is the income declared in your prior year tax filing divided by 12. Only the prior year matters here, not the first and second years. The logical thing would be a certified break down of your prior year income plus your current monthly salary, which I offered, but they don't want that. That this makes no sense is not a factor and Special Branch have heard all the arguments about pay rises, bonuses, time off between job changes and joint tax return with wife before. They will just smile politely and repeat the number that has to be in your salary letter for them to proceed with your application. If you can't get your company to cooperate with this quirky bureaucratic requirement, you are in trouble. You are lucky to be warned about this in advance. Most people have found out the hard way when they are stunned to be told to get their salary letter redone with the "correct" number. In my case I had to get another salary letter nearly three years later due to a mistake made by Special Branch in their covering letter that referred to the wrong clauses in the Act. So I had to go through the process with the company a second time. It is all part of what makes this a very special process and a worthy achievement when you get to the finishing post.

[sas_cars]

The MOI just needs to see a letter confirming that your current monthly salary is the income declared in your prior year tax filing divided by 12. Only the prior year matters here, not the first and second years. The logical thing would be a certified break down of your prior year income plus your current monthly salary, which I offered, but they don't want that. That this makes no sense is not a factor and Special Branch have heard all the arguments about pay rises, bonuses, time off between job changes and joint tax return with wife before. They will just smile politely and repeat the number that has to be in your salary letter for them to proceed with your application. If you can't get your company to cooperate with this quirky bureaucratic requirement, you are in trouble. You are lucky to be warned about this in advance. Most people have found out the hard way when they are stunned to be told to get their salary letter redone with the "correct" number. In my case I had to get another salary letter nearly three years later due to a mistake made by Special Branch in their covering letter that referred to the wrong clauses in the Act. So I had to go through the process with the company a second time. It is all part of what makes this a very special process and a worthy achievement when you get to the finishing post.

The new IM Gen. Anupong is in office now. Let's see how he goes about clearing the backlogs of PR and Citizenship applications.

[Arkady]

Thai nationality approved for 369 wives

The Nation October 11, 2014 1:00 am

Interior Minister Anupong Paochinda has approved Thai nationality for 369 women married to Thai men - some of whom had been waiting for nationality for several years.

The grants had to be carefully considered as the process was about national security, although the rights of those waiting for nationality was also important, Anupong said yesterday.

The name list was posted on the Department of Provincial Administration website to stop the women from being exploited by state officials or others.

It will be submitted to the Office of the Cabinet Secretary and announced in the Royal Gazette soon.

Another group of 272 immigrants received Thai nationality on Wednesday, Anupong said.

[Arkady]

There are slightly more detailed accounts of what Anuphong said in Thai media, e.g. from Nation TV Online http://breakingnews.nationtv.tv/home/read.php?newsid=737905〈=T&cat=. I have been able to find the list of 369 wives on DoPA's website but there is an announcement here http://www.dopa.go.th/index.php/information/knowlege/2817-2014-10-10-12-09-13. I expect the website staff havn't caught up with their new boss yet but we will probably see the list next week.

Looking at the wording of these announcements it looks as if the 369 wives are applicants who have already been signed off on by HMK and made their oaths of allegiance at SB because he says that the list will be submitted to the cabinet secretariat for announcement in the Royal Gazette soon.

The announcement goes on to say that another group of 272 applicants for naturalisation under Sections 10, 11 and 12 were approved on 8 October. It implies, but doesn't specify, that these are at the same stage, i.e. ready for announcement in the RG. Since the Thai wording mentions Sections 10 and 11, I can't find the list of them on the website either but assume these 272 are foreign nationals, not displaced Thais but they could be ordinary stateless persons who get naturalised from time to time in large blocs. Mentioning them next to the 369 wives under Section 9, who are clearly foreign nationals, strongly suggests that the 272 are also foreign naturals.

The short announcement on DoPA's website contains some interesting wording. It says that the list of names of the wives is to be published on DoPA's website to prevent state officials or other persons from taking advantage of them. Presumably Anuphong is concerned that government officials or lawyers, knowing in advance who is on the list, could contact the applicants and tell them a new quota has opened that they get applicants on to it for a couple of hundred thousand baht, as we heard was done by sharp lawyers acting on behalf of PR applicants just before the large batches were approved in 2011. This could happen, I suppose, but the reality is that applicants who know they have been approved by the King are not very vulnerable to this type of extortion, as they know they will have to appear in the RG sooner or later and it usually doesn't take more than a few months. The weak points in the process are, in fact, the long wait for interview at DoPA and the waiting time for the interior minister's signature after that.

Anyway the fact that Anuphong is showing determination to reduce waiting time and eliminate opportunities for extortion is a good sign. In the Thai wording it was mentioned that many applicants have waited 5-7 years, with the clear implication that this is too long, although he acknowledges the need for carefully vetting on grounds of national security.

[samran]

Didn't see anything relevant to us, nor has my wife received anything in the mail, but perhaps it is time to go have a chat to the moi people about the status if my wife's application.

Good to know the backlog is being seen to. Hopefully more to come.

Edited October 11, 2014 by samran

[shrimpythailand]

Congratulations.

I wish i could someday also become a Thai citizen, atleast i now know it is a possibility.

Can you please post some details like:

- how old you are?

- was there a minimum salary?

- how long have you been here?

- how long have you been a PR?

- how good is your Thai?

- when you went through the process were there many others doing the same thing?

P.S. Ignore the jealous posters saying stuff like "Who would want it?" and "Whats the big deal about owning land and a business?"

I bet if they could get Thai citizenship they'd jump at the chance.

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=759

Article says 80,000 bt per month salary or if married to a thai only 30,000 bt per month

[Arkady]

Congratulations.

I wish i could someday also become a Thai citizen, atleast i now know it is a possibility.

Can you please post some details like:

- how old you are?

- was there a minimum salary?

- how long have you been here?

- how long have you been a PR?

- how good is your Thai?

- when you went through the process were there many others doing the same thing?

P.S. Ignore the jealous posters saying stuff like "Who would want it?" and "Whats the big deal about owning land and a business?"

I bet if they could get Thai citizenship they'd jump at the chance.

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=759

Article says 80,000 bt per month salary or if married to a thai only 30,000 bt per month

The minimum salary for males married to Thais is B40,000 per month, not B30,000. The link from the Phuket Gazette is from 2004 and is now out of date because it pre-dates the 2008 amendments to the 1965 Nationality Act. There is plenty of more up-to-date, accurate information earlier in this thread.

[Arkady]

I have now located the 369 wives on DOPA's website DOPA 369 wives Oct 2014.pdf

I haven't read through the entire list but, at first glance, a lot of women from neighbouring countries, especially Burma, which is unusual, and also quite a few addresses from the provinces and not just Phuket, Chiang Mai etc. That is also unusual. I noticed hardly any farangs which is normal.

Looking at the Nationality Act in the light of this list I see something that I never noticed before. That is that there seems to be no requirement for wives applying to adopt their husbands' Thai nationality under Section 9 to be countersigned for by the King or to make an oath of allegiance. Those provisions under Section 12 and 12.1 seem only to apply to applicants for naturalisation. Earlier I assumed that this list of wives had been approved by the previous minister and the King were just waiting for their names to appear in the RG but the long list of names and the unusal profile of nationalities and provinces made me wonder. Now I am taking the view that these are more likely names that have received ministerial approval for the first time and the next stage is publication in the RG. (Can any wives who have got citizenship under Section 9 confirm that there are no further steps between ministerial approval and publication in the RG?) This view would explain why Anuphong wanted to publish the names on the DOPA website because they would otherwise not know they have been approved by the minister and he, presumably, feels they would be open to extortion from officials or lawyers claiming they can get them approved by the minister. It's highly unlikely that applicants who know they have been countersigned for by the King and made their oaths of allegiance would be vulnerable to extortion.

This interpretation would also explain why no list of the 272 applicants for naturalisation approved by the minister on 8 October has been published on DOPA's website. It seems more likely that Anuphong has given them the first level of ministerial approval and they will be forwarded to the palace as the next step. If this is the case, even if he thought they were also vulnerable to extortion, it would be inappropriate to publish the names before HMK has signed. He said that the names of the 369 wives were being forwarded to the cabinet secretariat for publication in the RG but didn't say the same for the 272 naturalisation applicants that he had approved two days earlier. He simply said they would be processed according to the law.

Maybe I have got this wrong and I don't wish to raise any false hopes but that is what I think has happened.

[samran]

Arkady, how have you gone in the past when you went down to MOI and asked about the latest update on your application. Are they generally helpful? I think it might be worth a trip if so.

[Arkady]

Arkady, how have you gone in the past when you went down to MOI and asked about the latest update on your application. Are they generally helpful? I think it might be worth a trip if so.

The first time I just showed up at the MOI at the suggestion of the police after I was informed there was a mistake in my application (made by the police). Initially they were rather frosty at the unannounced visit but it was mainly because they were annoyed with the police. Then they warmed up and the head of dept saw me and explained exactly what the problem was and how to correct it which took another 6 months but it worked. The second time I got a call directly from the MOI to bring along my old WP for verification about 10 days before my interview. That was due to another mistake by the police who declined to include copies of the old WP with the application for reasons unexplained. (I have heard of several people who had to take along their old WPs to the MOI who need to verify that applicants have been working legally for 3 years before applying. So it only applies if you changed jobs within that 3 year period. Those applying now should insist that the police include their old WPs to save this trouble.)

I think you should be able to find out what's happening from Special Branch without trekking off to the MOI. If they can't explain, it would be worth a visit.

[Arkady]

There is some news today about DOPA setting up a nationality clinic. See http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/767837-thailand-plan-for-nationality-clinic/?p=8530025

[Mario2008]

Post containing political comment removed.

[Arkady]

Not my wording. That was from The Nation's English summary of DOPA's Thai press release.

What Anuphong was saying was that he agrees with proper screening of nationality in accordance with existing law and regulations but that taking 5-7 years to do this is unacceptable and impinges on the human rights of applicants. He has just approved 641 applicants one month into the job, vs historic rates averaging 160 a year. Give the guy a break.

Yes, publishing full names and addresses could be regarded as an invasion of privacy but that will all be published in the RG too, as anyone who applies for citizenship ought to be aware. I don't think any of them are complaining about that right now. The important aspect of publishing the names in advance, which has never been done before, is that Anuphong wants to protect them from being exploited by officials and others who might otherwise claim they can get them on the list and demand money for what they have already got. Again, please give him a break.

[skippybangkok]

Waiting since 2010. Not even a call

[Arkady]

Waiting since 2010. Not even a call

I suggest you go along to DOPA. And ask what is happening, if you can't get any information from SB. Some people who applied in 2010 have been interviewed since last year. Now is the time while the new minister is giving them a shake up. You have nothing to lose but half a day of your time.

[skippybangkok]

Thanks

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Congratulations.

I wish i could someday also become a Thai citizen, atleast i now know it is a possibility.

Can you please post some details like:
- how old you are?
- was there a minimum salary?
- how long have you been here?
- how long have you been a PR?
- how good is your Thai?
- when you went through the process were there many others doing the same thing?

P.S. Ignore the jealous posters saying stuff like "Who would want it?" and "Whats the big deal about owning land and a business?"
I bet if they could get Thai citizenship they'd jump at the chance.

http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=759

Article says 80,000 bt per month salary or if married to a thai only 30,000 bt per month

The minimum salary for males married to Thais is B40,000 per month, not B30,000. The link from the Phuket Gazette is from 2004 and is now out of date because it pre-dates the 2008 amendments to the 1965 Nationality Act. There is plenty of more up-to-date, accurate information earlier in this thread.

I have PR, for many years.

My lawyer enquired quite some years back about citizenship. He is very familiar with the subject at hand I know that he did check to ensure his knowledge was up to date (a relative worked in his office).

My lawyers response at that time - the points you would score on all categories is quite strong, but your age means no chance.

I was working at that time but retired a couple of years later. I am now 70 years old. Can the experts here please advise whether older age is still a strong barrier. Also, I am retired and therefore no local income. Is that also a barrier?

Expert advise / not opinions of what would be nice please.

Thank you.

Edited October 17, 2014 by scorecard

[GarryP]

Unfortunately, without annual income tax statements and a valid work permit you are precluded.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Unfortunately, without annual income tax statements and a valid work permit you are precluded.

Well I do have annual tax clearance documents going back many many years and I do have copies of work permits covering more than 25 years. I did hold a work permit at retirement.

[ubonjoe]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Unfortunately, without annual income tax statements and a valid work permit you are precluded.

Well I do have annual tax clearance documents going back many many years and I do have copies of work permits covering more than 25 years. I did hold a work permit at retirement.

What you had in the past will not work. You have to be currently working to apply.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Unfortunately, without annual income tax statements and a valid work permit you are precluded.

Well I do have annual tax clearance documents going back many many years and I do have copies of work permits covering more than 25 years. I did hold a work permit at retirement.

What you had in the past will not work. You have to be currently working to apply.

Thanks Ubonjoe, maybe I'll work again for a couple of years!

Can you please comment on the age factor.

Thanks.

[samran]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Unfortunately, without annual income tax statements and a valid work permit you are precluded.

Well I do have annual tax clearance documents going back many many years and I do have copies of work permits covering more than 25 years. I did hold a work permit at retirement.

What you had in the past will not work. You have to be currently working to apply.

Thanks Ubonjoe, maybe I'll work again for a couple of years!

Can you please comment on the age factor.

Thanks.

Arkady knows it best and I'm sure he'll be along to correct me if my memory serves me badly.

From memory the age factor need not be a huge concern given it is scored on a points basis - so knowledge of Thai language and other possitive attributes can counter balance things.

I also seem to recall that you'll need to be working right up to approval, not just at application.