Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[GarryP]

Evidence of charitable donations of a minimum of 5,000 Baht and the donations should not be made just before your application, they should have been made at least one year prior to filing. I made several donations over two years before filing. I had made donations before that but never kept evidence.

You need tax returns for three years, and I understand that they must be full years, so you would need to wait until January 2016 before you could file as 2012 would not count for you.

I doubt very much whether your application would trigger an audit but surely if you are running a company, it would be best to keep your house in order anyway.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I was also a director of a Thai company, and my citizenship application did not elict any kind of unusual interest or audit.

I had one charitable donation of 20,000 baht. I doubt there is any amount fixed as being "acceptable", and don't believe it plays a significant part in the approval process. Just a box to be ticked.

[GarryP]

I was also a director of a Thai company, and my citizenship application did not elict any kind of unusual interest or audit.

I had one charitable donation of 20,000 baht. I doubt there is any amount fixed as being "acceptable", and don't believe it plays a significant part in the approval process. Just a box to be ticked.

In the list of documents provided by SB, it clearly states that it must be a minimum of Baht 5,000 and the donation should not have been made immediately or close to the application date.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Ah, I stand corrected.

[Arkady]

I am hoping to start on this road shortly and need some advice if you would be so kind:

I wonder if anyone knows the currently acceptable amount of money you need to prove you have donated to a Thai charity as part of the application? I remember hearing it was 4000 Baht, is this still the case?

Also I understand I have to provide my income receipts for three calendar years - I received my work permit in July 2012 so does this mean I can submit 2012-2014 or do I need to wait until 2015 so that I have 3 full calendar years?

I am a Director of a Thai company, will this cause an audit on my company? I have no big issue with that but a friend of mine who is a lawyer had his application rejected for receiving payment as a commission on a housing sale he had helped someone with and his entire application was rejected because his work permit didn't allow him to receive commissions. So I would rather know in advance and get my house in order.

Thanks for the help.

Garry is correct regarding the charitable donations and the three years. You need three fiscal (calendar) years of notarised tax receipts.

I am surprised to hear about the applicant who was rejected due to an audit of his company and the commission income issue. If this is true, perhaps they took exception to the commissions because being a broker (except when dealing with overseas clients) is one of the professions prohibited to foreigners in the Royal Decree limiting professions for foreigners and the definition of a broker is some one who receives fees. However, it makes no sense because the company is not prohibited from receiving commissions and it was the company that received the commission, not the foreign employee.

You should aware that, if you own any shares at all in your employer's business, you are required to submit complete financial statements for the company. A simple way to avoid this additional layer of paperwork and scrutiny is to transfer your shares to some one else pro tem. I worked for a listed Thai company at the time and was told that I would have had to submit complete audited statements of the company, if I owned a single share. Just to avoid the paperwork and be above board I sold the small position I had beforehand.

[jimmiejackson]

Thanks for all the advice. For charitable donations I will be fine in that case.

In regards to points for the salary level (I am married to a Thai) is it based on the past 3 years or can I hike it up before application to get maximum points? Seems like due to my age and no PR status I'll need all the points I can get!

As for my company, of course I keep things in order however I will offload my shares anyway to save the paperwork hassle.

I think my friend was in fact applying for PR as his interview was at CW so I guess there was probably a more detailed examination involved and I don't know the intimate details honestly.

Looks like I've got another year to wait. Oh well, seems like patience will be a virtue in this process anyway.

Edited December 5, 2014 by jimmiejackson

[Neeranam]

I'm part way through the citizenship application process. I've submited doccuments to special branch and been interviewed. I've registered on the yelllow tabien baan and I've registered a thai name change. I've also had the interview with the NIA. My question is about the doccument needed by the British Embassy to state that you will be wiling to give up British citizenship if necessary. Will the British Embassy accept the doccument I received from Special Branch to process this? The last time I went to the British Embassy to as about this they said they were very hesitant to issue such a doccument. Has anyone had any experience with this as part of their citizenship application?

Thanks in advance

You make a statutory declaration at the Embassy. You write it out by hand and submit it. The wording I used is as follows:

Declaration

I, Mr. XXXXXXXXXXX, holder of British Passport No. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX issued by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office on X February XXXX, am a British citizen resident at ADDRESS Bangkok, 10260, Thailand.

In connection with my recent application for naturalization as a Thai citizen, I do solemnly and sincerely swear that I intend to renounce my British citizenship when I have received permission from the competent Thai authorities to become naturalized as a Thai citizen.

The Consular officer who endorsed the declaration, simply smiled. It is declaration of intent, not something you will be held to.

Do you need to translate this to Thai?

I was unaware this was even needed as the UK allow dual citizenship.

[NewlyMintedThai]

It's the Thai side that wants you to "intend" to give up your original citizenship.

[GarryP]

I'm part way through the citizenship application process. I've submited doccuments to special branch and been interviewed. I've registered on the yelllow tabien baan and I've registered a thai name change. I've also had the interview with the NIA. My question is about the doccument needed by the British Embassy to state that you will be wiling to give up British citizenship if necessary. Will the British Embassy accept the doccument I received from Special Branch to process this? The last time I went to the British Embassy to as about this they said they were very hesitant to issue such a doccument. Has anyone had any experience with this as part of their citizenship application?

Thanks in advance

You make a statutory declaration at the Embassy. You write it out by hand and submit it. The wording I used is as follows:

Declaration

I, Mr. XXXXXXXXXXX, holder of British Passport No. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX issued by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office on X February XXXX, am a British citizen resident at ADDRESS Bangkok, 10260, Thailand.

In connection with my recent application for naturalization as a Thai citizen, I do solemnly and sincerely swear that I intend to renounce my British citizenship when I have received permission from the competent Thai authorities to become naturalized as a Thai citizen.

The Consular officer who endorsed the declaration, simply smiled. It is declaration of intent, not something you will be held to.

Do you need to translate this to Thai?

I was unaware this was even needed as the UK allow dual citizenship.

You make the declaration in English and once endorsed by your Embassy it needs to be translated and certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, if I remember correctly. I will check agai9n tomorrow.

Edited December 7, 2014 by GarryP

[Arkady]

I'm part way through the citizenship application process. I've submited doccuments to special branch and been interviewed. I've registered on the yelllow tabien baan and I've registered a thai name change. I've also had the interview with the NIA. My question is about the doccument needed by the British Embassy to state that you will be wiling to give up British citizenship if necessary. Will the British Embassy accept the doccument I received from Special Branch to process this? The last time I went to the British Embassy to as about this they said they were very hesitant to issue such a doccument. Has anyone had any experience with this as part of their citizenship application?

Thanks in advance

I am not quite sure how you could have got as far as the NIA interview without submitting this document, unless you applied before 2010. Since then it has been a requirement and Special Branch will not complete your application without it and the NIA usually interview applicants right at the end of the vetting process which takes 2-3 months after application. I think that a few applicants might have been required to submit the declaration retroactively, if they had applied but not yet been interviewed at the MOI at the start of 2010. Is this your situation?

The declaration does need to be translated to Thai with the translation certified and the signature of the consular official notarised by the MoFA. Make sure you ask your embassy for the Thai spelling of the consular official, especially if it is a Thai. Otherwise your translator will just come up with their own Thai spelling and the MoFA will reject the translation, if the spelling of the Thai name doesn't coincide with what they have on file. Getting this from the British Embassy after having the first translation rejected was like pulling teeth a few years ago.

[Big Guns]

I'm part way through the citizenship application process. I've submited doccuments to special branch and been interviewed. I've registered on the yelllow tabien baan and I've registered a thai name change. I've also had the interview with the NIA. My question is about the doccument needed by the British Embassy to state that you will be wiling to give up British citizenship if necessary. Will the British Embassy accept the doccument I received from Special Branch to process this? The last time I went to the British Embassy to as about this they said they were very hesitant to issue such a doccument. Has anyone had any experience with this as part of their citizenship application?

Thanks in advance

I am not quite sure how you could have got as far as the NIA interview without submitting this document, unless you applied before 2010. Since then it has been a requirement and Special Branch will not complete your application without it and the NIA usually interview applicants right at the end of the vetting process which takes 2-3 months after application. I think that a few applicants might have been required to submit the declaration retroactively, if they had applied but not yet been interviewed at the MOI at the start of 2010. Is this your situation?

The declaration does need to be translated to Thai with the translation certified and the signature of the consular official notarised by the MoFA. Make sure you ask your embassy for the Thai spelling of the consular official, especially if it is a Thai. Otherwise your translator will just come up with their own Thai spelling and the MoFA will reject the translation, if the spelling of the Thai name doesn't coincide with what they have on file. Getting this from the British Embassy after having the first translation rejected was like pulling teeth a few years ago.

My interview with NIA was about 2 weeks or so after submitting the documents to special branch which was in October this year. The lawyer was very surprised at how quick it was. Literally they phoned my wife on the Tuesday and I had to attend on the Thursday. I'll go to the embassy on Monday for the declaration, I would have got it before submitting my doccuments to special branch but the embassy didn't give very useful advice last time I was there. Can the declaration be typed or hand written?

[GarryP]

I'm part way through the citizenship application process. I've submited doccuments to special branch and been interviewed. I've registered on the yelllow tabien baan and I've registered a thai name change. I've also had the interview with the NIA. My question is about the doccument needed by the British Embassy to state that you will be wiling to give up British citizenship if necessary. Will the British Embassy accept the doccument I received from Special Branch to process this? The last time I went to the British Embassy to as about this they said they were very hesitant to issue such a doccument. Has anyone had any experience with this as part of their citizenship application?

Thanks in advance

I am not quite sure how you could have got as far as the NIA interview without submitting this document, unless you applied before 2010. Since then it has been a requirement and Special Branch will not complete your application without it and the NIA usually interview applicants right at the end of the vetting process which takes 2-3 months after application. I think that a few applicants might have been required to submit the declaration retroactively, if they had applied but not yet been interviewed at the MOI at the start of 2010. Is this your situation?

The declaration does need to be translated to Thai with the translation certified and the signature of the consular official notarised by the MoFA. Make sure you ask your embassy for the Thai spelling of the consular official, especially if it is a Thai. Otherwise your translator will just come up with their own Thai spelling and the MoFA will reject the translation, if the spelling of the Thai name doesn't coincide with what they have on file. Getting this from the British Embassy after having the first translation rejected was like pulling teeth a few years ago.

My interview with NIA was about 2 weeks or so after submitting the documents to special branch which was in October this year. The lawyer was very surprised at how quick it was. Literally they phoned my wife on the Tuesday and I had to attend on the Thursday. I'll go to the embassy on Monday for the declaration, I would have got it before submitting my doccuments to special branch but the embassy didn't give very useful advice last time I was there. Can the declaration be typed or hand written?

Assuming you are British, there is a Declaration form provided by the Embassy and you fill in the blanks with what you are declaring by hand. The information I filled in by hand is provided in my earlier post on this subject.

[Pakeha]

Regarding the declaration letter above, if one has three citizenships already how would this work? Would a letter from each respective embassy need to be provided or would just one suffice?

[ubonjoe]

I would think it would only be the one they know about which would be the one used for the application.

[Arkady]

Regarding the declaration letter above, if one has three citizenships already how would this work? Would a letter from each respective embassy need to be provided or would just one suffice?

I doubt whether this is a serious post based on a personal situation but there are people with dual nationality who have applied for Thai nationality. If you are anywhere close to being qualified, you already know the answer to this. You will have a tabien baan and a work permit and maybe an alien book and a residence book, all of which state your nationality which will have to correspond to the passport you have been using to enter the country which will have your visa in it. If you were so stupid as to flash more passports and nationalities at them, you probably would need more declarations.

[Pakeha]

It's a serious question. I'm no where near applying but with a thai wife, 3 half thai children and (newly acquired) land in Thailand the time to apply is getting nearer. It's still some years away as we don't currently live in Thailand. My wife was at the local Amphur the other day and they showed her a document stating a 3 year time frame living here for me to get citizenship. My wife said they seemed to think it would be pretty straight forward for me. This was a bit of a surprise to me.

[Pakeha]

But feedback noted re declaring multiple passports. Thank you. I don't consider myself stupid - Just trying to make informed decisions about how to proceed so as not to cause myself any grief.

[samran]

It's a serious question. I'm no where near applying but with a thai wife, 3 half thai children and (newly acquired) land in Thailand the time to apply is getting nearer. It's still some years away as we don't currently live in Thailand. My wife was at the local Amphur the other day and they showed her a document stating a 3 year time frame living here for me to get citizenship. My wife said they seemed to think it would be pretty straight forward for me. This was a bit of a surprise to me.

You'll need three years of work permits and tax returns, as well as a few other things to even be eligible to apply. And you'll be applying to Police Special Branch, so I'm not sure what document the Ampur is waiving about.

The police have a time frame of about 180 days from memory for all the documents in the application to be assessed before it is passed to the MOI. After then it is a black hole - with waits from 3/4 years upwards a common starting point. All this time you'll need to be working with a work permit.

Not ideal I know, but what your wife saw is probably quite misleading.

[Pakeha]

Thanks samran. At the Amphur they had a big book which I gather provided guidelines for various policies. It was an Amphur master copy so we couldn't take it. This was in a small rural Amphur so I wouldn't expect they will know the detail of the process. No farangs around here.

[Oasis]

Thanks samran. At the Amphur they had a big book which I gather provided guidelines for various policies. It was an Amphur master copy so we couldn't take it. This was in a small rural Amphur so I wouldn't expect they will know the detail of the process. No farangs around here.

Dear Pakeha,

I fully agree with Samran. He is in right direction to advice you. As I have gone through all this process.

Oasis

[Arkady]

Thanks samran. At the Amphur they had a big book which I gather provided guidelines for various policies. It was an Amphur master copy so we couldn't take it. This was in a small rural Amphur so I wouldn't expect they will know the detail of the process. No farangs around here.

If you want detailed information, there is no substitute for going to Special Branch at National Police HQ in Bangkok. They are the only dedicated police unit that handles applications for nationality. District offices have nothing to do with the process, except for issuing ID cards to people who have been approved.

[Arkady]

Naturalisations Women with Thai husbands Subtotal

2005 50 68 118

2006 10 232 242

2007 141 236 377

2008 163 44 207

2009 0 4 4

2010 7 145 152

2011 40 8 48

2012 35 77 112

2013 153 23 176

2014 100 408 508

Total 699 1245 1944

Avg p.a. 69.9 124.5 194.4

Above is the record of citizenship approvals announced in the Royal Gazette over the last 10 years, excluding lists of formerly stateless minorities and displaced Thais in border areas. So 2014 yielded a bumper crop of the combined numbers, although it was far from a record number of naturalisations (i.e. all applications not on the basis of being married to a Thai man).

Naturalisations should pick up next year, since the MoI took the unusual step of announcing on 10th October 2014 that a further list of 272 applicants had been approved for naturalisation by the minister and their files had been forwarded to the Palace. According to the Nationality Act the King needs to countersign applications for naturalisation under Section 10 and approved applicants then have to swear an oath of allegiance at police national HQ. The King's countersignature and the oath of allegiance are not required by wives of Thai men applying under Section 9.

[Oasis]

Naturalisations Women with Thai husbands Subtotal

2005 50 68 118

2006 10 232 242

2007 141 236 377

2008 163 44 207

2009 0 4 4

2010 7 145 152

2011 40 8 48

2012 35 77 112

2013 153 23 176

2014 100 408 508

Total 699 1245 1944

Avg p.a. 69.9 124.5 194.4

Above is the record of citizenship approvals announced in the Royal Gazette over the last 10 years, excluding lists of formerly stateless minorities and displaced Thais in border areas. So 2014 yielded a bumper crop of the combined numbers, although it was far from a record number of naturalisations (i.e. all applications not on the basis of being married to a Thai man).

Naturalisations should pick up next year, since the MoI took the unusual step of announcing on 10th October 2014 that a further list of 272 applicants had been approved for naturalisation by the minister and their files had been forwarded to the Palace. According to the Nationality Act the King needs to countersign applications for naturalisation under Section 10 and approved applicants then have to swear an oath of allegiance at police national HQ. The King's countersignature and the oath of allegiance are not required by wives of Thai men applying under Section 9.

And, this year new batch is adding up to this list, those been interviewed last year.

Oasis

[samran]

just a quick note.

I went down to SB during the last week and found out my wifes name along with 35+ other women was forwarded to the 'big committee' for final approval. Apparently it went okay, and we are waiting for the minutes to be summarised and then forwarded to the Minister. So good news I guess though timeframes are a little unclear still.

They mentioned this was the third and final batch of 'backlogged' females at least following the 300+ and he 60+ recent approvals.

SB were rather happy that this all this happened. They consider themseves very efficient (which they are) while the MOI is the black hole which they laughed about.

So will see what comes next...

[GarryP]

just a quick note.

I went down to SB during the last week and found out my wifes name along with 35+ other women was forwarded to the 'big committee' for final approval. Apparently it went okay, and we are waiting for the minutes to be summarised and then forwarded to the Minister. So good news I guess though timeframes are a little unclear still.

They mentioned this was the third and final batch of 'backlogged' females at least following the 300+ and he 60+ recent approvals.

SB were rather happy that this all this happened. They consider themseves very efficient (which they are) while the MOI is the black hole which they laughed about.

So will see what comes next...

The "big committee" meeting was on 23 December 2014. I don't think you will have long to wait.

I spoke to an officer at the "little (screening) committee" interview session on 30 January 2015 and they said they were now aiming at one year from screening committee interview to ID card. Perhaps not realistic as the "big committee" meetings do not seem to be held all that frequently, but your wife has got that behind her.

The officer also told me that they would be holding more big committee meetings than usual this year. This was echoed by SB.

[aidenai]

just a quick note.

I went down to SB during the last week and found out my wifes name along with 35+ other women was forwarded to the 'big committee' for final approval. Apparently it went okay, and we are waiting for the minutes to be summarised and then forwarded to the Minister. So good news I guess though timeframes are a little unclear still.

Thanks for the update. I recall that your wife had the interview at the MOI on 6 November 2013. Am I correct?

[samran]

just a quick note.

I went down to SB during the last week and found out my wifes name along with 35+ other women was forwarded to the 'big committee' for final approval. Apparently it went okay, and we are waiting for the minutes to be summarised and then forwarded to the Minister. So good news I guess though timeframes are a little unclear still.

Thanks for the update. I recall that your wife had the interview at the MOI on 6 November 2013. Am I correct?

You have a better memory than I do! Yes, it was right towards the end of that year.

[samran]

just a quick note.

I went down to SB during the last week and found out my wifes name along with 35+ other women was forwarded to the 'big committee' for final approval. Apparently it went okay, and we are waiting for the minutes to be summarised and then forwarded to the Minister. So good news I guess though timeframes are a little unclear still.

They mentioned this was the third and final batch of 'backlogged' females at least following the 300+ and he 60+ recent approvals.

SB were rather happy that this all this happened. They consider themseves very efficient (which they are) while the MOI is the black hole which they laughed about.

So will see what comes next...

The "big committee" meeting was on 23 December 2014. I don't think you will have long to wait.

I spoke to an officer at the "little (screening) committee" interview session on 30 January 2015 and they said they were now aiming at one year from screening committee interview to ID card. Perhaps not realistic as the "big committee" meetings do not seem to be held all that frequently, but your wife has got that behind her.

The officer also told me that they would be holding more big committee meetings than usual this year. This was echoed by SB.

Gary, many thanks for your update and Intel as well. Good news if the tighter timeframes are in place. I know this has been an long process for yourself as well.

[Arkady]

One year from from interview to ID card would be most welcome. There is huge inefficiency in the process because foreigners have not been not considered to have any rights or recourse in cases which depend on the minister's discretion. The ministry took 5 months just to inform me that HMK had approved my application. Generally what has been open ended for most applicants has been getting the minister's signature which can take several years when politicians are in power, as they see no point in signing anything for free. The process whereby the bureaucrats send applications for the minister to sign is also opaque but the minister should take responsibility for that, as he can fix it if he wants to. The interview process would also have to be streamlined, as it is currently taking about 3 years plus to get to the interview. With no improvement there, minimum time would be 4 years.

The major problem is the minister's discretion in the Nationality Act. Personally I think they need to amend the law so that the minister still has discretion to approve or deny within 3 years of application but in cases with no reply after 3 years, the minister is deemed to have used his discretion to approve. That would light a fire under the bureaucrats.

BTW I am under the impression that the big committee meets about 3 times a year. I think it is pretty much a formality, as far as I know, but it is a requirement in the Act which prescribes who sits on it and that the chair is the permanent secretary.

[Oasis]

Hope we all will have good news next month, finger crossed!!!