Important Information re COVID coverage for Expats Already in Thailand

[Bkk Brian]

30 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

Thank you for your detailed follow up, it is much appreciated. The only point I would make is that international school teachers do not pay Social Fund contributions.

 

In the context of this discussion that is positive, as a non-contributor to the Social Fund was treated for free.

Your welcome. On the Social Fund point, I understand that most international schools offer private insurance but individual teachers can pay the Social Fund if they wish, at least thats the situation at this one. I know because one of my daughters in the Uk had been interested at one time to come over and teach and this was the option given to her.

[GroveHillWanderer]

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Serious legal consequences if you refuse to go to  a Field Hospital.

Potentially yes, but it doesn't seem to have been the case for a number of supposedly "hi-so" Thais  (including some highly-placed officials) who have been reported as simply self-isolating after a positive test. The article I saw that talked about this said that:

 

"The ministry is considering taking legal action against those who have refused to follow ministry regulations.”

 

74 Covid patients who refused to go to field hospitals may face prosecution

 

As yet I haven't seen any reports where they've gone beyond considering it, and actually taken any action.

[Fairynuff]

It looks as though speaking to a broker to buy the cover might be the better option. Any recommendations ?

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, theoldgit said:

 

Thanks for that, maybe you could provide the actual reference to Thai Law and the insurance companies take on it. 

I do note that you only say "they could just refuse to pay because you are not living/residing in Thailand, but just visiting, according to Thai law" and don't claim it to be a definitive answer.

Have a look at for example the Immigration Act, but other laws use nearly the same wordings.

 

The official wording in Thai laws for somebody on a temporary permit to stay, for example tourist, or non-immigrant visa/extension:

คนต่างด้าวซึ่งจะเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักรเป็นการชั่วคราว

Word by word translation: Alien who entered the Kingdom temporarily

Short translation: Visitor

 

Official wording in Thai laws for somebody with permanent residency status:

คนต่างด้าวซึ่งเข้ามามีถิ่นที่อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรโดยชอบ

Word by word translation: Alien who took up residence in the Kingdom for good

Short translation: Resident

 

Of course what I wrote is no definitive answer, it depends on the insurance company, maybe one just pays out, another might refuse to pay.

I merely pointed out that the wording in the fine print is not really clear, and based on this wording they could refuse a payout if you don't have permanent residency or a work permit.

Thus if I were to sign up for such a policy, I would contact the insurance company and have them make a clear statement if they are going to pay out even though I'm not a permanent resident.

Edited April 28, 2021 by jackdd

[Boomer6969]

 

While I would be prepared to pay upfront for a so called Hospitel, I certainly would drag my feet to pay for the privilege of staying in one of their prison camps. I just wonder how they could coerce someone who ls imprisoned anyway.

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You are ill even if asymptomatic.  Asymptomatic: Definition, Importance, and Controversy (verywellhealth.com)An asymptomatic infection is one in which a bacteria, virus, fungus, or parasite has invaded the body but has not yet caused any symptoms (like fever or a cough). Your body may fight off the invader and you may never know it was there. Or, you may develop symptoms of the illness after an asymptomatic phase. Depending on the pathogen, you may be able to spread the germs to others even though you have no symptoms

 

So with being Asymptomatic you have the virus and can spread it.  Stop living and feeding false information to others.

 

My insurance Company PCH will cover an asymptomatic case, but only up to 16k a day for room and board as no medical treatments are needed until you start to show symptoms.  You need to stop thinking that asymptomatic individuals pose no risk or threat. 

 

I think the issue for insurers - especially international ones - is (1) medical necessity and (2) what constitutes a hospital.    Nothing to do with whether one is ill or not. Just whether it is medically necessary for you to be admitted to a hospital. Note that many insurance policies will not even cover admission to a licensed nursing home, only to a hospital.  They idea is that you are in need of skilled medical care of a type that can only be provided in a hospital.

 

It is not internationally accepted medical practice to admit people with mild or asymptomatic COVID to a hospital. So this is already a potential issue, though in  practice much will depend on what the hospital puts down on the insurance forms and many people apparently have been covered while asymptomatic and in a hospital. Most international insurers seeing forms that state diagnosis COVID and treatment plan of oral antivirals, close observation etc would assume this is someone with COVID symptoms.  However if soemthing flags the fact that the person was completely asymptomatic, that  might well cause a problem.

 

"Field Hospitals" and "hospitels" obviously are not conventional hospitals (and arguably are not hospitals at all but rather quarantine facilities). It would take a special determination by the insurer to include them and  in the process of such a review it would quickly become apparent that these are for people not needing skilled medical care. and that these facilities do nto provide hospital level medical care.

 

Thai insurance companies are somewhat different as they exist in a context where mandatory hospitalization based on positive COVID test is taken for granted, an d the COVID policies were developed with this understanding.

 

 

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

It looks as though speaking to a broker to buy the cover might be the better option. Any recommendations ?

AA or Roojai.

[Dart12]

@Sheryl  what company(s) do you recommend for primary health care coverage while in Thailand?

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

@Sheryl  what company(s) do you recommend for primary health care coverage while in Thailand?

That varies greatly according ti a host of individual factors. I recommend you go through a broker, they will help you chose a policy as well as help with claims afterwards if needed.

 

I use AA brokers   www.aainsure.net

[Dart12]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

That varies greatly according ti a host of individual factors. I recommend you go through a broker, they will help you chose a policy as well as help with claims afterwards if needed.

 

I use AA brokers   www.aainsure.net

Thank you Sheryl ????

[Sheryl]

30 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Have a look at for example the Immigration Act, but other laws use nearly the same wordings.

 

The official wording in Thai laws for somebody on a temporary permit to stay, for example tourist, or non-immigrant visa/extension:

คนต่างด้าวซึ่งจะเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักรเป็นการชั่วคราว

Word by word translation: Alien who entered the Kingdom temporarily

Short translation: Visitor

 

Official wording in Thai laws for somebody with permanent residency status:

คนต่างด้าวซึ่งเข้ามามีถิ่นที่อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรโดยชอบ

Word by word translation: Alien who took up residence in the Kingdom for good

Short translation: Resident

 

Of course what I wrote is no definitive answer, it depends on the insurance company, maybe one just pays out, another might refuse to pay.

I merely pointed out that the wording in the fine print is not really clear, and based on this wording they could refuse a payout if you don't have permanent residency or a work permit.

Thus if I were to sign up for such a policy, I would contact the insurance company and have them make a clear statement if they are going to pay out even though I'm not a permanent resident.

 

There is a difference between permanent residency status which comes under Immigration law and residing in the country. For tax and insurance purposes the criteria is physically present in Thailand 6 months of the year or more. Under local insurance regulations this is what companies are required ti follow in terms of whom they can legally insure.

 

Some insurance companies might request a work permit as a short-cut method of ascertaining someone resides here but there is no law requiring it.

 

I have never heard of anyone having an insurance claim denied by a Thai insurer for lack of permanent residency or a work permit.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

I've heard comment before (from farang) who e.mailed to roojai asking for very specific answers to some of the items in their Covid 19 policy.

 

It was mentioned that roojai had answered with little delay with very clear and specific answers.

 

I compare this with my Thai son checking around several years ago for private full health insurance (before Covid) for himself, his Thai wife and 3 daughters. He got good answers for some of his questions and eventually took policies with Tokio Marine Health Insurance.

 

He got answers like the following from some companies, one a very well known 3 letter company (AIx????

 

- 'Customers not allowed to ask further questions, not polite.'

- 'No need to ask questions, just read the brochure.'

- An answer which was ambiguos and off the subject and just raised more questions.

But companies incl Roojai will get fed up with questions that can be answered by looking at the policy doc, quite a few questions like that on this thread, they only have so much time to waste. Same with people constantly ringing and emailing

Edited April 28, 2021 by scubascuba3

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

I've heard comment before (from farang) who e.mailed to roojai asking for very specific answers to some of the items in their Covid 19 policy.

 

It was mentioned that roojai had answered with little delay with very clear and specific answers.

 

I compare this with my Thai son checking around several years ago for private full health insurance (before Covid) for himself, his Thai wife and 3 daughters. He got good answers for some of his questions and eventually took policies with Tokio Marine Health Insurance.

 

He got answers like the following from some companies, one a very well known 3 letter company (AIx????

 

- 'Customers not allowed to ask further questions, not polite.'

- 'No need to ask questions, just read the brochure.'

- An answer which was ambiguos and off the subject and just raised more questions.

Insurance companies here can be really entertaining. Tried once to get a household insurance and asked for the conditions in the process. I was told I would not get any but they suggested I pay according to their offer (without conditions). Arranged through a very well known broker. ???? I invested in better surveillance instead.

 

I will try again with Roojai - seems that was really a misunderstanding / mistake on their website.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

As this topic is now becoming quite detailed, would a knowledgeable member be able to make a list of covid-19 insurers that:

 

a. Have confirmed that they will pay for field hospital/hospitel stays

b. Have confirmed that they will not pay for field hospital/hospitel stays

c. Have not confirmed their position

 

I think this would be very useful for the community.

 

Thank you

 

Will do in  a  bit, info is still coming in

[lexilis]

This is maybe a long shot but does anyone know if Thai Social Security would pay for the field hospitals/ Hospitels?

[scubascuba3]

Field hospitals just look like accomodation. UK set up similar centres but they were barely used because they couldn't equip them or get the medical staff because treatment varied a lot, so would be interesting to hear how severe the cases are going there, if minor symptoms then cost should be low......

[soalbundy]

5 hours ago, Kiujunn said:

The virus will arrive at your village by autumn,  probably less than 6 months. Compare the spread from NYC (spring 2020) to North Dakota (autumn 2020). B.117 spreads faster. 

 

Vaccination will ride to the rescue in form of Bioscience, anything faster cannot be allowed. It will arrive at your village not much after the virus has rampaged through it.

 

Re-read my post 1 year from now.  

 

I don't even catch influenza, my body is too complicated for covid and at 73 why worry; I won't miss much.

[anchadian]

If you apply and  have been accepted for one of these covid-19 plans. are you able to cancel the policy if you are not satisfied with the policy wording? 

[pontious]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Yes, of course, that wa snever in doubt. the issue is the "Fueld Hospitals" and "hospitels"

 

But if you are wanting to be covered for care in a actual hospital, costs would well exceed what KWG pays (for me not an issue as I have other insurance). You should get the highest level medical cover you can as cost will be 200-300k in an actual hospital without major complications/ICU care and sky pretty much the limit if you end up in an ICU. Or better yet get a general health policy, as COVID is not all you need to worry about in terms of hospitalization costs.

Yes I said hospitels. I have the same April cover that you have for real insurance. Applied at AA Pattaya today - policy within 2 weeks.  AA will make a plastic card for you with the relevant details, phone numbers etc. Had to go to the office as the application is only in Thai.

[scubascuba3]

3 minutes ago, anchadian said:

If you apply and  have been accepted for one of these covid-19 plans. are you able to cancel the policy if you are not satisfied with the policy wording? 

yes the policy wording says 15 days to cancel, have a look

[Sheryl]

17 minutes ago, lexilis said:

This is maybe a long shot but does anyone know if Thai Social Security would pay for the field hospitals/ Hospitels?

I believe yes for Field Hospitals. Thais aren't paying anything and many of them come under SS especially the younger ones.

 

Recent post in this thread reports people with SS (foreigners) sent to field Hospital not having to pay anything.

 

For "hospitels" I have no idea, maybe not as I think these are basically an upscale/"luxury" alternative for those able to afford it.

[canopus1969]

16 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I don't even catch influenza, my body is too complicated for covid and at 73 why worry; I won't miss much.

It's not that anyone is worried about you dying but that you may pass on the Covis to someone else

[connda]

On 4/27/2021 at 11:34 AM, Sheryl said:

Krungthai Panich Insurance  - available through broker Roojai and possibly other brokers (not sure on that point)   https://www.roojai.com/en/covid/  Premium for 100k baht medical cover = 850 baht ; for 150k cover = 590 baht and for 200k cover = 420 baht per year. In this thread, broker Roojai confirms these policies will cover admission to a Field Hospital or hospitel:   https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1159632-did-anyone-get-the-roojai-covid-insurance/

????

[moogradod]

I followed this link https://www.roojai.com/en/covid/ for Krungthai Panich Insurance over Roojai to apply and I got as far as the first page where you have to input height and weight - in my case 184 cm and 120 kg.

 

And this is what I got:

 

Not accepted.pdf

 

So my BMI alone did not qualify me. And this is the very laughable least of "preconditions" I have.

 

[lavender19]

I bought the roojai one over two weeks ago. Still waiting for the policy to arrive

[scubascuba3]

6 minutes ago, lavender19 said:

I bought the roojai one over two weeks ago. Still waiting for the policy to arrive

you got the email policy?

[Felt 35]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

no idea, you had best ask them. And please post what you find out. Are you referring to a COVID-only policy or a general health policy?

 

This was the reply. "If you were to fall ill from Covid-19,  and end up admitted to a field hospital connected to a hospital within our network, that hospital will contact us and direct billing can be arranged in normal circumstances. However, in the case where the field hospital is not within our hospital network, then the arrangement may have to be on a pay and claim basis. 

I understand their network of hospitals, but isnt the field hospital's a addition directly from the Government and where do that fit into their network is unclear for me.????

Felt

 

[lexilis]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I believe yes for Field Hospitals. Thais aren't paying anything and many of them come under SS especially the younger ones.

 

Recent post in this thread reports people with SS (foreigners) sent to field Hospital not having to pay anything.

 

For "hospitels" I have no idea, maybe not as I think these are basically an upscale/"luxury" alternative for those able to afford it.

 

Thanks Sheryl. I am relying on my Thai SS for any serious issues. But apparently the consensus here is that we should all get one of these cheap COVID policies to cover the cost of the "hospitels" (versus the "field hospitals") if we are tested positive while asymptomatic. All these pages of comments have just confused me. I know you are very informed on these matters. Can you recommend one in particular?

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, canopus1969 said:

It's not that anyone is worried about you dying but that you may pass on the Covis to someone else

Not if I don't catch it. Stay at home, minimal contact outside.

[KannikaP]

On 4/27/2021 at 12:07 PM, tomazbodner said:

I have asked this same question to Dhipaya (got it over Roojai a year back and just extended when they offered 680 bht extension for another year)  - got no answer except promise to call back, which didn't happen for over 2 weeks now.

I emailed Roojai regarding the Dhipaya policy and got the reply

 

Thank you for contacting Roojai. We cover in a field hospital and hospital, sir but not cover if you are in hotel.

Edited April 28, 2021 by KannikaP