If one gets the Sinovac vaccine ...

[Bangkok Barry]

On 5/1/2021 at 1:45 PM, Oxx said:

 

Forgive my being sceptical, but I'm not sure that a report from the South China Morning Post is the most reliable or independent of sources for this.

 

Papers such as the CMP tend to rely very largely on agency copy for their content. Basically, all the staff do is copy and past. That's been my experience in my travels as a journalist, anyway.

[GreasyFingers]

31 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Sinovac is supposed to be 4 weeks apart (28 days).  Astra Zeneca anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks.

Have just spoken to a friend in Australia who has had the first shot of AZ and has been told it might be up to four months before he gets the second. He was expecting 4 weeks when given the first.

[khunPer]

On 5/1/2021 at 7:34 AM, Oxx said:

If one gets a Covid vaccination in Thailand, as it stands there's a high chance it'll be the Sinovac vaccine, and one has no choice over which vaccine one receives.

Most likely you'll get a AstraZeneca vaccine, if vaccinated in the general vaccination roll out, but you cannot choose.

 

Private hospital vaccination might be an option, but not available before later.

[Disillusioned One]

On 5/1/2021 at 12:56 PM, Sheryl said:

I am going to the US in July

 

I am curious, do you know what type of verification is being accepted by the airlines and US officials of an administered vaccine?

[DJ54]

Thanks to all for some good reading... I hope the decision on vaccines are purely medical and no political twists...

 

When will soylent green be available... ha ha 

[Sheryl]

8 minutes ago, Disillusioned One said:

 

I am curious, do you know what type of verification is being accepted by the airlines and US officials of an administered vaccine?

None, they are not requiring vaccination. Just negative COVID test. And completion of an "attestation form".

 

The "attestation" just swears that you have had a negative COVID test.

 

Most airlines at this point seem to base requirements on what the destination country requires.  And I haven't seen any that require proof of vaccination as of now. May change, with time, of course. Not enough peopke vaccinated yet tio make it feasible now.

 

US is never going to restrict entry of its own citizens for lack of vaccination, would be politically almost impossible to do that in US.

 

 

[Denim]

I found this video useful in clarifying some aspects of the vaccine program objectives with regards to their efficacy.

 

 

[tao40]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/3/20-4714_article

Does not quantify risk, just proves that transmission can and does occur inflight in  some cases

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7016e1.htm

modeling exercise only. There are others as well. These look only at inflight though and do not factor in the risk at the airport and in boarding/disembarkation

 

It is impossible in any case to quantify rate of infection since it will vary greatly by individual flight depending on whether any infected people are inboard and if so how many; how infectious they are; whether they (and you) wear a mask; seating arrangements etc etc etc.

 

What I can tell you is that you are going to be safer if

• passengers were required to show a negative COVID test
• mask wearing is required and enforced both in the plane and in the airport
• middle seats are kept empty
• you fly business r first class. This not only means better spaced seats but most importantly means you can avoid the crowded embarkation/disembarkation and crowds at security checks in the airport etc

For me, I am going to go business class and I would recommend that if possible. And of course wear a good quality mask

DARPA in the U.S did a study to get a more accurate idea of the risks involved in traveling commercial air, & catching COVID-19. They found that the risks are pretty minimal, due to the high filtration standards on commercial airlines, & because of how the air ventilation flows through the cabins. Hope that puts some people at ease! 

[superal]

30 minutes ago, Denim said:

I found this video useful in clarifying some aspects of the vaccine program objectives with regards to their efficacy.

 

 

Thanks , very informative and having watched the video I am surprised that comparison charts are published in the above mode because it is really inaccurate data  .

[Letseng]

On 5/1/2021 at 7:56 AM, Sheryl said:

Actually if you are able to get vaccinated here it will likely be AZ not Sinovac.

 

Sinovac is being used just as a temporary measure until AZ is available. Ukess you live at ground zero of a hot spot you are unlikely to be offered Sinovac,

 

As to getting vaccinated with different vaccines, the simple answer is no one knows because it has not been researched. There is a trial underway now in the UK on a regime where one dose is AZ and the other Pfizer but it will be some time before results are available. And that is not the same as getting a full course of one vaccine followed by a full course of another. They haven't called the trial off so presumably there are no obvious early adverse effects being seen, is the most that can be said, and again that is with just 1 injection of each of 2 different vaccines.

 

I am in this dilemma myself though with a twist in that I am going to the US in July. I can get Pfizer or Moderna in US easily enough but may also have the chance to get AZ in Thailand first (though probably only the first injection not the second unless things start up sooner than I think they will).

 

I would rather have Pfizer or Moderna. But I would also rather be immunized before getting on a long international flight. And I will face recommended self-isolation and other restrictions in the US if I arrive unvaccinated.

 

I have researched this up and down, bottom line is no on knows/can say the effect of getting 2 different vaccine series. However it is known that it is safe to be vaccinated if you have already had COVID which leads me to think that it is probably  also be safe to be vaccinated with a different vaccine months after getting vaccinated with another. But that is just my own best guess, it is not hard fact and if I do this (as I may) it will be at my own risk.

 

 

Germany is vaccinating Pfizer as 2nd jab after AstraZ. They are not waiting for research results.

EU is discussing acceltance of Sinovac, SputnikV. Both vaccines are being used by Serbia and Hungary. 

[andersonat]

22 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

The South China Morning Post is Hong Kong based where, despite the pressure from the north, does still have a high degree of press freedom.

 

  ---  There's currently a "high degree of press-freedom" in Hong Kong ? ...   --   That idea is laughable. 

 

 

[connda]

Over 60 - probably AZ.
Under 60 - probably Sinovac. 

You're mileage may vary.  It depends on if you want the "free" shot or if you plan to purchase a shot.  If you're paying money???

[Kiujunn]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

 

What I can tell you is that you are going to be safer if

• passengers were required to show a negative COVID test
• mask wearing is required and enforced both in the plane and in the airport
• middle seats are kept empty
• you fly business r first class. This not only means better spaced seats but most importantly means you can avoid the crowded embarkation/disembarkation and crowds at security checks in the airport etc

For me, I am going to go business class and I would recommend that if possible. And of course wear a good quality mask

All of the above plus:

 

Daylight flight. People are not able to wear their masks correctly when sleeping. 

 

Non-stop or stop in low-incidence country,  e.g. Taipei, Inchon. Not Doha or Dubai.

If the flight has a stop at a hub: additional passengers may come from where?  Check it. If they all come from Korea it's certainly better than a mix of the whole world like at the Arab hubs.

 

Don't eat on the flight. Avoid the bathrooms. Tell the flight attendants not to talk to you. 

 

Carry alcohol gel and spray, use liberally. Disinfect finger-print readers before putting your fingers on them.

 

At the airport, I wear glasses or safety goggles, sometimes gloves. The airport is probably the most dangerous part of your trip.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, andersonat said:

23 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

The South China Morning Post is Hong Kong based where, despite the pressure from the north, does still have a high degree of press freedom.

 

1 hour ago, andersonat said:

 

  ---  There's currently a "high degree of press-freedom" in Hong Kong ? ...   --   That idea is laughable. 

 

 

Perhaps I should have added 'compared to China' and for the moment it does enjoy a lot more freedom. Of course we all know it isn't going to last for ever. ????

 

[RocketDog]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/3/20-4714_article

Does not quantify risk, just proves that transmission can and does occur inflight in  some cases

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7016e1.htm

modeling exercise only. There are others as well. These look only at inflight though and do not factor in the risk at the airport and in boarding/disembarkation

 

It is impossible in any case to quantify rate of infection since it will vary greatly by individual flight depending on whether any infected people are inboard and if so how many; how infectious they are; whether they (and you) wear a mask; seating arrangements etc etc etc.

 

What I can tell you is that you are going to be safer if

• passengers were required to show a negative COVID test
• mask wearing is required and enforced both in the plane and in the airport
• middle seats are kept empty
• you fly business r first class. This not only means better spaced seats but most importantly means you can avoid the crowded embarkation/disembarkation and crowds at security checks in the airport etc

For me, I am going to go business class and I would recommend that if possible. And of course wear a good quality mask

I read a very long article months ago that was impressively researched but I have no link. 

 

The punchline was that the airports and associated ground travel and restaurants carry a significantly higher risk of infection than the flight. 

At least in crowded airports (are there any?) common sense would incline one to believe that. 

[Disillusioned One]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

None, they are not requiring vaccination. Just negative COVID test. And completion of an "attestation form".

 

Thank you for the explanation.

[Rhys]

On 5/1/2021 at 2:59 PM, expatjustice said:

It all depends on each personal's situation. 

 

If you are a high risk person (be it because of age, underlying disease, ...) you'd be better off with one of the most effective vaccines, either Pfizer or Moderna (the ones using mRNA). 

 

If you are a very young person, in a very low risk gap (such as myself), you might as well get Sinovac, a vaccine which uses the same technique that has been used in vaccines for a long time and has been proven safe. It may not be as effective, but given that originally you already were in a low risk group, it's not like it will make a difference...

 

IMO mRna is a new technique, which has not been tried in humans before, And nobody knows what will happen X years from now (almost for sure nothing). But it is my opinion that if I don't have the need for one of those more effective vaccines, I'd rather not take it. 

 

And besides I am looking forward to returning to China without quarantine, so in my case I am praying to get SinoVac here in Thailand.

 

AstraZeneca is also apparently not recommended for young people, while SinoVac is not recommended for senior citizens. 

 

I will be checking in with my nephologist, but in a recent research article advocates for patient with Chronic Kidney Disease that the mRNA based vaccine would be a more safe choice?  Cheryl what are your thoughts?  Thus in Thailand it would be a while for access to this mRNA vaccine?

 

 

[Oxx]

5 hours ago, Rhys said:

I will be checking in with my nephologist

Probably better off checking with a nephrologist.  (Nephrology is the scientific study of clouds.)

[Sheryl]

10 hours ago, Rhys said:

 

I will be checking in with my nephologist, but in a recent research article advocates for patient with Chronic Kidney Disease that the mRNA based vaccine would be a more safe choice?  Cheryl what are your thoughts?  Thus in Thailand it would be a while for access to this mRNA vaccine?

 

 

 

i haven't heard this and don't know why it would be so,

 

No guarantee mRNA vaccines wil lever be available in Thailand and even less guarantee you can specify what vaccine you get anytime in the forseeable future.

[Oxx]

53 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

No guarantee mRNA vaccines wil lever be available in Thailand and even less guarantee you can specify what vaccine you get anytime in the forseeable future.

 

Does that mean you're completely discounting the possibility of private hospitals being able to buy vaccines from abroad?

[Captain Monday]

On 5/2/2021 at 6:16 AM, Kiujunn said:

All of the above plus:

 

Daylight flight. People are not able to wear their masks correctly when sleeping. 

 

Non-stop or stop in low-incidence country,  e.g. Taipei, Inchon. Not Doha or Dubai.

If the flight has a stop at a hub: additional passengers may come from where?  Check it. If they all come from Korea it's certainly better than a mix of the whole world like at the Arab hubs.

 

Don't eat on the flight. Avoid the bathrooms. Tell the flight attendants not to talk to you. 

 

Carry alcohol gel and spray, use liberally. Disinfect finger-print readers before putting your fingers on them.

 

At the airport, I wear glasses or safety goggles, sometimes gloves. The airport is probably the most dangerous part of your trip.

Talking on planes should be banned.

[Pmbkk]

On 5/1/2021 at 6:56 AM, Sheryl said:

Actually if you are able to get vaccinated here it will likely be AZ not Sinovac.

 

Sinovac is being used just as a temporary measure until AZ is available. Ukess you live at ground zero of a hot spot you are unlikely to be offered Sinovac,

 

As to getting vaccinated with different vaccines, the simple answer is no one knows because it has not been researched. There is a trial underway now in the UK on a regime where one dose is AZ and the other Pfizer but it will be some time before results are available. And that is not the same as getting a full course of one vaccine followed by a full course of another. They haven't called the trial off so presumably there are no obvious early adverse effects being seen, is the most that can be said, and again that is with just 1 injection of each of 2 different vaccines.

 

I am in this dilemma myself though with a twist in that I am going to the US in July. I can get Pfizer or Moderna in US easily enough but may also have the chance to get AZ in Thailand first (though probably only the first injection not the second unless things start up sooner than I think they will).

 

I would rather have Pfizer or Moderna. But I would also rather be immunized before getting on a long international flight. And I will face recommended self-isolation and other restrictions in the US if I arrive unvaccinated.

 

I have researched this up and down, bottom line is no on knows/can say the effect of getting 2 different vaccine series. However it is known that it is safe to be vaccinated if you have already had COVID which leads me to think that it is probably  also be safe to be vaccinated with a different vaccine months after getting vaccinated with another. But that is just my own best guess, it is not hard fact and if I do this (as I may) it will be at my own risk.

 

 

 

I got my first vaccine  ( Pfizer ) in England the week before last.

 

At the same center they were giving people who had had their first AZ vaccine the Pfizer one, so in England they are currently mixing vaccines.

 

 

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, Pmbkk said:

 

I got my first vaccine  ( Pfizer ) in England the week before last.

 

At the same center they were giving people who had had their first AZ vaccine the Pfizer one, so in England they are currently mixing vaccines.

 

 

 

Several EU countries as well. And a formal clinical trial on it is underway in UK. But no results yet. However since all of these vaccines have the same effect, just using different technology to get it, and all of them are 2 dose schedules, there is reason to expect (but nto be sure) it would work fine.

 

I am less concerned about 1 shot AZ and one shot of Pfizer or Moderna than I am about a full series of one plus 1 does of another. The issue I am facing is that I am going to the US. There is almost no chance of my getting fully vaccinated in Thailand before I leave, but I might be able to get 1 dose.  If I were to get 1 dose of AZ in Thailand first and then just 1 dose of Pfizer or Moderna in the US I would then not be listed as fully vaccinated in either country (as US does not use AZ nor alow mixed vaccine types).  I would have to get the full series of Pfizer or Moderna in US, or the single dose J&J,   on top of the 1st AZ dose in Thailand to have a vaccination certificate. Or else wait for return to Thailand for the second AZ dose.

 

If I just leave it till arrival in  US then I go through the flight completely unvaccinated.

 

 

[Pmbkk]

On 5/2/2021 at 11:15 AM, GreasyFingers said:

Have just spoken to a friend in Australia who has had the first shot of AZ and has been told it might be up to four months before he gets the second. He was expecting 4 weeks when given the first.

 

I remember watching a BBC TV interview with one of the AZ vaccine medical heads.

 

This is when the UK were looking at changing the ( recommended ) interval from 4 weeks to 12 weeks between vaccinations to allow them to inoculate more people quicker with the first dose.

 

She said - and she seemed very, very clear that 12 weeks was the absolute maximum period,

[superal]

1 hour ago, Pmbkk said:

 

I remember watching a BBC TV interview with one of the AZ vaccine medical heads.

 

This is when the UK were looking at changing the ( recommended ) interval from 4 weeks to 12 weeks between vaccinations to allow them to inoculate more people quicker with the first dose.

 

She said - and she seemed very, very clear that 12 weeks was the absolute maximum period,

https://www.nhsinform.scot/covid-19-vaccine/invitations-and-appointments/how-you-will-get-the-coronavirus-vaccine

Invitation for your second vaccine dose

The second dose of the coronavirus vaccine can be given between 3 to 12 weeks after the first.

[Captain Monday]

There are many articles about mixing vaccines coming out recently may be beneficial even according to the concept of heterologous immunity.  We will hear more about this going forward for sure.

[Kiujunn]

On 5/5/2021 at 7:25 AM, Oxx said:

Probably better off checking with a nephrologist.  (Nephrology is the scientific study of clouds.)

Nice try.

 

(Hint: read again, carefully, what you wrote)

[kynikoi]

Not only that I would venture to guess that if you get a vaccine (2) you will not be allowed a different one unless or until all people are vaccinated or private hospitals are allowed to sell vaccine.

 

I can very easily see this being a thing.

 

So all those older expats that are rushing to the line app and the hospitals for a booking you might want to think twice.

[Saltire]

I am hoping that I will be able to get the Pfizer jabs at some point in Thailand.

 

My identical twin in the UK has had 2 Pfizer, we share 100% DNA and several underlying conditions so I reckon it bodes well for me. He has had no adverse effects and completed the 2nd jab about a month ago.

 

The way things are going here though, I will probably end up taking the AZ one just to lower my risk.

 

[Sheryl]

21 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Does that mean you're completely discounting the possibility of private hospitals being able to buy vaccines from abroad?

Government has refused to allow it so far.

 

No vaccine manufacturer will sell to a private hospital without written givernment consent.