3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Regardless, before modern medicine could save people, they died of many different diseases. Only those with an immune system that could defeat the viruses survived. It's called survival of the fittest.

Lol, what do you actually mean by "regardless"? You just used it to reiterate your earlier, off-target comment. No one in the thread said immune systems are make-believe. We all know they keep us alive. But no offense, we knew that all along. My point is that thinking we only get infected when our immune systems are weak is inane. You can't make your immune system stronger and stronger until there are no viruses it can't defeat. It doesn't work that way.

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Did you even read the article? I never said it was about covid, but about prions which are apparently in some of the corona vaccines. If the vaccine causes an unintended disease it's going to be stopped regardless if it prevents corona.

Apparently? Are yiu saying that there is no way if knowing, of analising whether there are prions in the Covid-19 vaccines?

 

 

THE DISPATCH FACT CHECK

Could the mRNA Vaccines Lead to an Increase in Neurodegenerative Disorders?

 

The author of an article claiming such is a noted vaccine opponent.

haya Himmelman

Apr 8

 

A viral Facebook post suggests that the messenger RNA vaccines produced by Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna could lead to an increase in prion disease years from now. The post relies on a screenshot of a purported research article from J. Bart Classen, who writes that “we will see a rise in prion disease in 5-40 years.”

 

Read more: https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/could-the-mrna-vaccines-lead-to-an

19 hours ago, meechai said:

 

Perhaps but the topic is on Covid Vaccines & perhaps mRNA in this case but..........

 

The Fact of the matter regarding Covid mRNA Vaccine & testing is they began testing on Humans in March 2020
 

Quoted from National Health Institute

 

Is is your comments about the 10 year testing (not on Covid vaccine) etc that is misleading & in fact irrelevant

to any covid vaccine discussions

If in fact the Covid mRNA Vaccine had been tested for 10 years on Humans it would

easily have passed  FDA Approval & not just have "authorized for emergency use" which is a far cry

from approved. Why? Because the lack of data...lack of track record in HUMAN trials

 

Take it or not is all fine & well & is each persons choice but the cheer leading is unearned

 

 

 

Your response shows that you really do not understand the basic concept of mRNA vaccine and that a delivery system is not the same as immune response intent. You also wish to change the concept of clinical trial to something it is not.

 

The mRNA is a platform for delivery of the vaccine, and is like the key to a lock. Each virus is like a lock with different cylinders. The mRNA vaccine is a key that matches the cylinders. Change the cylinder array and key must be modified. Because the format it was developed for cancer treatment, it is very specific to the target. This is why it is much less likely to make the bad impact of other vaccines, the adverse reaction. This is also why it is so effective.

 

Now you make argument that because the SARS COV19 did not have specific long term clinical trial it is unacceptable. Do you know why there is SARS name in virus?  It is because the pandemic virus is a SARS virus and actual name is SARSCov-2. The work for SARS Cov-1 vaccine started 10+ years ago. Then, Ebola, Zika and MERS.  All same platform, all same concept. I see article explaining how much of HIV vaccine work  benefited the SARS Cov-2 vaccine also. That’s 40 years of research.

 

Do you object to flu vaccine as well? Every year the flu vaccine is modified to respond to the new variants identified. The annual vaccine is produced with less clinical trial activity than that for SARS Covid19 vaccine. Annual flu vaccine has safety trial, but not long term efficacy trial, because there is no need because platform is long established.  Why you not make effort to look  for examples of how the mRNA  vaccine was being tested?  Easy to see and find, yes?  Bahl, K. et al. Preclinical and clinical demonstration of immunogenicity by mRNA vaccines against H10N8 and H7N9 influenza viruses. Mol. Ther. 25, 1316–1327 (2017). This is a report of a clinical vaccine trial using directly injected, non-replicating, nucleoside-modified mRNA against an infectious pathogen.

 

And yes, the Covid19 vaccines had a relatively shortened approval process because the platform was already known and proven.  Maybe you start with reading what Emergency Approval Authorization is and does.  It does not waive  safety requirement. . Having  the EUA designation is not that unique. In the USA, you can go look at the list of 100+ emergency use approvals. Some date back 10+ years+ and still are in effect, and include;

Anthrax EUAs

Ebola Virus EUA

Enterovirus D68 (EV-D68) EUA 

Freeze Dried Plasma EUA

H7N9 Influenza EUA 

Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus (MERS-CoV) EUA

Nerve Agent EUA 

Zika Virus EUA 

 

How about you explain what the risk of mRNA vaccine is in respect to other type of vaccine and why if the platform is so dangerous and so bad that it has been used successfully and safely in humans for 10+ years.  What is wrong with the platform? Why is the conventional vaccine format better?  All drugs and vaccines have potential for adverse reactions, but the mRNA technology has reduced this potential. Your arguments are like those who rejected seatbelts beause in a few cases seatbelts were implicated in crash injuries.

On 5/9/2021 at 6:56 AM, covidiot said:

Oh, right. I should be dead then, so I won't complain about the vaccine not being tested.

The vaccines have met all necessary safety requirements. 

On 5/8/2021 at 9:21 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

What is the difference between the vaccines for them and the vaccine for corona? They were developed over a long period of time and are generally understood to be safe, while the corona vaccine wasn't and isn't.

The SARS Cov-2 vaccine was not invented yesterday. Oxford was working on its since the SARS 1 crisis. The mRNA platform has been in use for 10+years. There are fewer adverse reactions per person reported with these vaccines than other vaccines. If these vaccines were so dangerous we would see tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people dead or injured since hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated and we have not.

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

The vaccines have met all necessary safety requirements. 

Yeah sorry, I don't mean to persuade you that they haven't. Some other posters on here don't feel that way. Personally, I have decided that I will get it soon. 

 

 

33 minutes ago, covidiot said:

Yeah sorry, I don't mean to persuade you that they haven't. Some other posters on here don't feel that way. Personally, I have decided that I will get it soon. 

 

"that's it. i'm done talking about covid. i'm retiring my account. "

 

Promises, promises.

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

The SARS Cov-2 vaccine was not invented yesterday. Oxford was working on its since the SARS 1 crisis. The mRNA platform has been in use for 10+years. There are fewer adverse reactions per person reported with these vaccines than other vaccines. If these vaccines were so dangerous we would see tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people dead or injured since hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated and we have not.

 

How many people were actually injected with an mRNA serum before 2020?

 

• Although relatively easy and quick to produce compared to traditional vaccine-making, no mRNA vaccine or drug has ever won approval.

 

Source:  https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

 

There may be few short term side effects, but there were few (if any) short term side effects to thalidomide.

 

I don't make any claims either way, unlike some who do make claims based on wishful thinking, the assurances of very vested entities, and zero (0, zip, zing, nada) historical data.  It'll be years before we know the long term effects of the vaccines, the shutdowns, and the printing of trillions of dollars, Euro and other currencies to compensate for the reaction to the disease.  Which, taken together, may be a lot worse than the disease itself had it just been allowed to run its course.

 

On 5/1/2021 at 9:01 AM, rcuthbert said:

I was getting my prescription refilled at Banglamung hospital, so I asked the doctor if only the elderly and infirm needed to worry about Covid. He told me that the new variants can sicken the young and the healthy. He added that things could get a lot worse.

The UK is just begining to emerge from a very difficult period with a very high death toll - 100,000 plus - following a 6 month lockdown and massive vaccination programme. To date there has been no evidence to suggest that the age profile for either infections or serious illness has changed significantly. Indeed, a key part of the success in bringing the death rate down, now to almost zero, has been the rigorous insistence on vaccinating by age groups, starting with the oldest and most vulnerable.  The first impressive results became clear when the 80s, the 70s then the 60s had been vaccinated in large numbers. To do this the government has had to resist considerable pressure from interest groups to jump the queue; police, public sector employees etc, with the sole exception being given to front line health and care workers. This has paid off massively. People are no longer getting seriously ill in large numbers. With all due respect to the hospital doctor mentioned by the OP, one suspects that he was probably just following the time honoured medical convention that caution is always to be preferred. Even here in the UK, despite the success of the vaccination programme, the medico-statistical junta have persuaded the politicians that we must wait until mid June to get any real freedom back.

1 hour ago, impulse said:

Which, taken together, may be a lot worse than the disease itself had it just been allowed to run its course.

Look at what is happening in India.

That is the disease running it's course.

5 hours ago, impulse said:

 

How many people were actually injected with an mRNA serum before 2020?

 

• Although relatively easy and quick to produce compared to traditional vaccine-making, no mRNA vaccine or drug has ever won approval.

 

Source:  https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

 

There may be few short term side effects, but there were few (if any) short term side effects to thalidomide.

 

I don't make any claims either way, unlike some who do make claims based on wishful thinking, the assurances of very vested entities, and zero (0, zip, zing, nada) historical data.  It'll be years before we know the long term effects of the vaccines, the shutdowns, and the printing of trillions of dollars, Euro and other currencies to compensate for the reaction to the disease.  Which, taken together, may be a lot worse than the disease itself had it just been allowed to run its course.

 

Jeez...why would anyone recommend herd immunity.  That's been debunked many times. Why?  Millions and millions would die.  You need a better source for your news.  Stop reading conspiracy theories.  Which you've admitted you like.

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Look at what is happening in India.

That is the disease running it's course.

And some ... person... on this forum thinks that what is happening in India is funny.

5 hours ago, DoctorB said:

The UK is just begining to emerge from a very difficult period with a very high death toll - 100,000 plus - following a 6 month lockdown and massive vaccination programme. To date there has been no evidence to suggest that the age profile for either infections or serious illness has changed significantly. Indeed, a key part of the success in bringing the death rate down, now to almost zero, has been the rigorous insistence on vaccinating by age groups, starting with the oldest and most vulnerable.  The first impressive results became clear when the 80s, the 70s then the 60s had been vaccinated in large numbers. To do this the government has had to resist considerable pressure from interest groups to jump the queue; police, public sector employees etc, with the sole exception being given to front line health and care workers. This has paid off massively. People are no longer getting seriously ill in large numbers. With all due respect to the hospital doctor mentioned by the OP, one suspects that he was probably just following the time honoured medical convention that caution is always to be preferred. Even here in the UK, despite the success of the vaccination programme, the medico-statistical junta have persuaded the politicians that we must wait until mid June to get any real freedom back.

Begging the question - are the new variants a threat to the young and healthy?

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Did you even read the article? I never said it was about covid, but about prions which are apparently in some of the corona vaccines. If the vaccine causes an unintended disease it's going to be stopped regardless if it prevents corona.

There is no evidence that the Covid vaccines have anything to do with prions.

8 minutes ago, rcuthbert said:

Begging the question - are the new variants a threat to the young and healthy?

Yes.  The one is Brazil is having a huge impact on the young.  Even babies.  Same with what's happening in Michigan.  People under 60 are getting impacted. 

 

These viruses are smart.  They evolve and figure out ways to propagate and survive.  We've got a long way to go before we're out of this.  And in the end, one form or another of this virus will be with us for decades.

16 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

 

These viruses are smart.  They evolve and figure out ways to propagate and survive.  We've got a long way to go before we're out of this.  And in the end, one form or another of this virus will be with us for decades.

Through your "research" have you identified how viruses came to have brains?

NO - they are not smart.... new variants happen randomly....now they're happening frequently because the virus has infected many millions of hosts providing more opportunity for evolution to happen.  They're not smart...we, the hosts have just been acting stupidly.

5 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Through your "research" have you identified how viruses came to have brains?

NO - they are not smart.... new variants happen randomly....now they're happening frequently because the virus has infected many millions of hosts providing more opportunity for evolution to happen.  They're not smart...we, the hosts have just been acting stupidly.

If they can do what they do, they're smart.  It's a deadly enemy that needs to be taken seriously.  Sadly, many world leaders have not done this. 

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/covid-19-caused-by-a-smart-virus-that-can-find-blindspots-crucial-for-system-to-be

 

Covid-19 caused by a 'smart' virus that can find blind spots, crucial for system to be flexible to overcome challenges: Experts

 

Professor Dale Fisher, a senior infectious diseases expert at the National University Hospital (NUH), pointed to infections at nursing homes and dormitories: "I'm learning that this virus is really smart.

 

"It can find our blind spots, it can find vulnerable people, it can find areas where there's high transmission, despite our efforts."

14 hours ago, Jillie Norman said:

 

And who will be the .1%?

People born now that live over 100 years.

On 5/9/2021 at 10:30 PM, covidiot said:

Interesting comment. What did people do before Big Pharma vaccines? 

If they caught a disease they either got sick and survived or they died, but you know that.

Conspiracy post reported and removed. 

 

On 5/9/2021 at 5:30 PM, covidiot said:

Interesting comment. What did people do before Big Pharma vaccines? 

Or modern medicine. You are asking about the history of medicine, really.

 

I can tell you before the advent of medicine, pharmaceuticals, hospitals, etc, the average lifespan in Mexico was 27. I mean, I can remember that time. People in the villages would marry and have kids at 12 and 13, and a 20 year old was a village elder. I would see 25 year old grandmothers. 
 

Maybe that’s why I don’t tolerate people here disparaging modern medicine.

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Maybe that’s why I don’t tolerate people here disparaging modern medicine.

True, modern medicine keeps people alive.

 

Back in those days, they didn't have access to information about how to look after your health like there is today. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, covidiot said:

True, modern medicine keeps people alive.

Back in those days, they didn't have access to information about how to look after your health like there is today. 

I don't believe modern medicine has made much of a difference to modern health, not being half staved and having poop in your drinking water has (but that's not health care). Not to mention death by war. As for 'information on how to look after your health", everyone I know (including me) seems intent on drinking and eating themselves to death as quickly as possible.

 

I've got lots of dead friends, they all had top modern health care, and they all died PDQ after symptoms arose.

11 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Yes.  The one is Brazil is having a huge impact on the young.  Even babies.  Same with what's happening in Michigan.  People under 60 are getting impacted. 

 

These viruses are smart.  They evolve and figure out ways to propagate and survive.  We've got a long way to go before we're out of this.  And in the end, one form or another of this virus will be with us for decades.

As far as the UK is concerned there is no evidence, so far at least, that the emerging variants have a different age/risk profile. It is still the older groups that are highly vulnerable, along with those who have other health problems. This virus may well be around for the foreseable future but the idea that it is somehow 'smart' is simply wrong. It is a way of trying to make the process of evolution more comprehensible by analogy with human behaviour.   'Smart' in this context is an aid to understanding, not a valid model of the process of viral mutation.

12 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Jeez...why would anyone recommend herd immunity.  That's been debunked many times. Why?  Millions and millions would die.  You need a better source for your news.  Stop reading conspiracy theories.  Which you've admitted you like.

 

I'm glad your crystal ball says there's going to be no long term devastation left by years of unemployment, no hyperinflation created by printing trillions of fiat, no maladjusted kids left out of school for semester after semester, no wars caused by those effects, and.. and..  Because mine's a little cloudy.

 

It's reassuring that you believe that an untested vaccine scheme won't come back and bite humanity in the butt, because that's never happened before.   Though it has.  But I'm sure this time is different...   mRNA.  Modified RNA.  An experiment in genetic engineering.  That's an entire genre of horror movies.  It's been the rallying topic of fierce debate with ethicists, scientists and world bodies for decades.  But, it'll be fine.

 

You're right.  I like a good conspiracy theory.  Largely because there's substance to so many of them as history moves beyond the propaganda of the day.  UFO's have been in the news recently.  Watergate was a conspiracy theory once, as were the Pentagon papers.  Jimmy Hoffa's demise- no proof whatsoever- sheer conspiracy that he's dead.  But If I were a betting man...  So no.  I don't trust the MSM or the so called science put out by moneyed interests.  And I'd put my sources up against yours any day.

 

17 hours ago, impulse said:

 

How many people were actually injected with an mRNA serum before 2020?

 

• Although relatively easy and quick to produce compared to traditional vaccine-making, no mRNA vaccine or drug has ever won approval.

 

Source:  https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

 

There may be few short term side effects, but there were few (if any) short term side effects to thalidomide.

 

I don't make any claims either way, unlike some who do make claims based on wishful thinking, the assurances of very vested entities, and zero (0, zip, zing, nada) historical data.  It'll be years before we know the long term effects of the vaccines, the shutdowns, and the printing of trillions of dollars, Euro and other currencies to compensate for the reaction to the disease.  Which, taken together, may be a lot worse than the disease itself had it just been allowed to run its course.

 

There is no such thing as an "mRNA serum" as you imagine.  mRNA is everywhere in all your cells.  It is used to make, build, operate, and regulate almost everything in your body. It is fundamental too all life.

 

Even the food you eat contains vast amounts of mRNA.  .

 

 

21 hours ago, impulse said:

 

How many people were actually injected with an mRNA serum before 2020?

• Although relatively easy and quick to produce compared to traditional vaccine-making, no mRNA vaccine or drug has ever won approval.

Source:  https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

 

There may be few short term side effects, but there were few (if any) short term side effects to thalidomide.

 

I don't make any claims either way, unlike some who do make claims based on wishful thinking, the assurances of very vested entities, and zero (0, zip, zing, nada) historical data.  It'll be years before we know the long term effects of the vaccines, the shutdowns, and the printing of trillions of dollars, Euro and other currencies to compensate for the reaction to the disease.  Which, taken together, may be a lot worse than the disease itself had it just been allowed to run its course.

 

 

Your use of Thalidomide as an illustration to support your position says so much.

Yes  the drug caused problems, but do you know why? Well, look at history, it was not approved for use in USA.

It was first introduced in Germany and  people were popping like candy and it was described as popular as aspirin.

In 1960 an  Australian obstetrician found that  the drug worked for reducing  symptom of   morning sickness. He started prescribing the drug offlabel - against recommended use. The off label use increased and  it became popular trend.  Then in 1961 after results as  morning sickness pill  became evident, the drug was banned.

How is an unapproved use of a drug and one that was not intended for use as it was,  any way comparable  to the use of a drug platform that was designed and intended as a delivery system for a vaccine?

 

You make reference of "vested interest". Ok, so public health is a  bad vested interest? Oxford University is not set up as a profit making facility. When the US government puts billions of $$ into medical research,  its interest is to protect the well being of the nation. Is that  a bad thing or something  US citizens should not expect? When Germany supported Biontech for public health research was that bad too? When Canada university and government  developed ebola vaccine and Sars vaccine that Oxford was able to take research data from,  was that a bad vested interest?

 

3 hours ago, impulse said:

I'm glad your crystal ball says there's going to be no long term devastation left by years of unemployment, no hyperinflation created by printing trillions of fiat, no maladjusted kids left out of school for semester after semester, no wars caused by those effects, and.. and..  Because mine's a little cloudy.

 

It's reassuring that you believe that an untested vaccine scheme won't come back and bite humanity in the butt, because that's never happened before.   Though it has.  But I'm sure this time is different...   mRNA.  Modified RNA.  An experiment in genetic engineering.  That's an entire genre of horror movies.  It's been the rallying topic of fierce debate with ethicists, scientists and world bodies for decades.  But, it'll be fine.

 

You're right.  I like a good conspiracy theory.  Largely because there's substance to so many of them as history moves beyond the propaganda of the day.  UFO's have been in the news recently.  Watergate was a conspiracy theory once, as were the Pentagon papers.  Jimmy Hoffa's demise- no proof whatsoever- sheer conspiracy that he's dead.  But If I were a betting man...  So no.  I don't trust the MSM or the so called science put out by moneyed interests.  And I'd put my sources up against yours any day.

 

 

I can only laugh at the double standard that is used. Those opposed to infection control measures scream against them, calling the Covid concerns hysteria. And then they throw out their own version of hysteria complaining about mental trauma of the restrictions and the impact upon economy of assistance measures. They never ever offer an  honest appraisal of the costs if nothing was done.  People have gone through much worse and recover. Ask the billions of people who have experienced famine and war over the years. The spoiled and privileged part of the world complains about the inconvenience of not being able to go to pub or take holiday. Ask victims of ISIS if they care.  Poor child in EU must go to school from home for a few months. Ask child slave worker in pakistan if they would they would trade sweat shop for opportunity to learn from comfortable home. 

 

And such nonsense calling the vaccines genetic engineering. No human dna is modified or has been modified. All that is being done is blocking of receptors so infection protein cannot attach. It is no different concept that putting plastic protector into electric socket to protect children.

 

13 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I'm glad your crystal ball says there's going to be no long term devastation left by years of unemployment, no hyperinflation created by printing trillions of fiat, no maladjusted kids left out of school for semester after semester, no wars caused by those effects, and.. and..  Because mine's a little cloudy.

 

It's reassuring that you believe that an untested vaccine scheme won't come back and bite humanity in the butt, because that's never happened before.   Though it has.  But I'm sure this time is different...   mRNA.  Modified RNA.  An experiment in genetic engineering.  That's an entire genre of horror movies.  It's been the rallying topic of fierce debate with ethicists, scientists and world bodies for decades.  But, it'll be fine.

 

You're right.  I like a good conspiracy theory.  Largely because there's substance to so many of them as history moves beyond the propaganda of the day.  UFO's have been in the news recently.  Watergate was a conspiracy theory once, as were the Pentagon papers.  Jimmy Hoffa's demise- no proof whatsoever- sheer conspiracy that he's dead.  But If I were a betting man...  So no.  I don't trust the MSM or the so called science put out by moneyed interests.  And I'd put my sources up against yours any day.

 

Ummm....I was talking about herd immunity.  Not economic impact.  But look at China.  They're doing great.  America is roaring back.  No crystal ball needed.  In the end, herd immunity can not be achieved without a jab.  Impossible.  And we can't get back on a good economic track until it's beaten.

 

Sad you fall for the conspiracy theories.  With regards to the virus, it helps no one, only hurts.

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't believe modern medicine has made much of a difference to modern health, not being half staved and having poop in your drinking water has (but that's not health care). Not to mention death by war. As for 'information on how to look after your health", everyone I know (including me) seems intent on drinking and eating themselves to death as quickly as possible.

 

I've got lots of dead friends, they all had top modern health care, and they all died PDQ after symptoms arose.

Indeed, apparently the biggest thing prolonging life was clean drinking water and better food.

I think I'm correct in saying most people in the world have no access to top medical treatment, and if they can't afford proper medical treatment they probably only get the minimal first aid.