I Double Masked My Face ... And I Liked It!

[wombat]

Have you looked at the size of the virus and the size of the hole in the weaves of masks?

[mtls2005]

36 minutes ago, BTB1977 said:

I can't believe this is even a discussion topic.

 

And yet you felt compelled to join the discussion. There's a word for that.

 

Be honest, you do believe this is a discussion topic. Right?

 

 

[mtls2005]

8 minutes ago, wombat said:

Have you looked at the size of the virus and the size of the hole in the weaves of masks?

 

Since you are a hole expert, do enlighten us.

 

 

[Skeptic7]

Long as you don't have to "double bag" girls Jing...all good! ????

[asiacurious]

Great thread!  Thank you to the OP for posting!

 

On 5/25/2021 at 11:00 AM, Jingthing said:

I'm very suspicious about people that sport VALVES.

 

Don't wear masks with valves, CDC says | Live Science

 

And an excellent comment!  I've wondered for a while (though I have never bothered to look for data) how much exhalation escapes via a valved N95 mask (technically known as a  Filtering Faceplate Respirator with an exhalation valve) that seals up against the face vs a surgical mask that has gaps around the edge.

 

So I went looking.  And guess what?!  According to a study by the US CDC's National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health that tested 1,125  masks with valves (13 different models), masks with valves are better at protecting other people than surgical masks which are lose fitting and allow leakage around the sides.

 

From the PDF of CDC's Technical Report (emphasis added)....

 

Quote

FFRs with an exhalation valve provide respiratory protection to the wearer, and this study demonstrates that they can also reduce 0.35-μm MMAD particle emissions to levels similar to or better than those provided by surgical masks and unregulated barrier face coverings.

 

PDF SOURCE  (there's a link below to an article that reports on the study if you don't want to read the study itself)

 

Here are three snippets reporting on the findings from the study (see page 20 of the pdf, which is also labeled as page "14").  Note that "Procedure" masks are surgical style masks that are not regulated by the FDA.  These are the kind bought and used by almost everyone, and are by far the least effective.

• With air flowing out through the exhalation valve, penetration ranged from <1% to 55%. The penetration was mostly dependent upon the FFR model and indicative of models having different exhalation valve designs and materials.

• For the non-FFR protective devices, the surgical mask had the least penetration (2% to 17%); however, the current study methods sealed the mask with beeswax and did not account for fit. When accounting for fit, the outward leakage of submicron particles in surgical masks in a previous NIOSH study was found to be much greater (7% to 76%) [Rengasamy et al. 2009].

• Procedure masks showed the greatest range of particle penetration (1% to 85%). This is expected, because the term “procedure mask” may not denote a medical device and would therefore not be regulated by the FDA unless the manufacturer claims the mask to be for medical use.

• For the six cloth face coverings, the submicron particle penetration ranged from 24% to 92%. For the two types of fabric from cotton t-shirts, submicron particle penetration ranged from 45% to 91%. Although this sample size was small, these penetration percentages for the cloth face coverings and fabric from cotton t-shirts are comparable to the 40% to 90% penetration found by previous NIOSH testing of cloth face coverings and fabrics [Rengasamy et al. 2010]. The results for the six face coverings tested in the current study showed a minimum penetration (24%) that was slightly lower than in the previous NIOSH testing, while the maximum penetration (92%) was nearly the same.

 

 

This article discusses the study.

[DerbyDan]

52 minutes ago, BTB1977 said:

I can't believe this is even a discussion topic.  Here's something to worry about. Two thias had problems right after they got their vaccine shots this wek. One healthy 43 year old died right after . And another has loss of feeling up and down his side. Don't think double masks will help them much. 

It would help the responders not catch it when they arrived. Sure hope they were wearing it.

[asiacurious]

19 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

With respect, don't use masks with valves.

 

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2020/11/new-airflow-videos-show-why-masks-exhalation-valves-do-not-slow-spread

 

Although well conducted study is better than a video (see previous post, up two from this one, for my link to a study), let me share this video that shows what the one you posted doesn't show - the exhalation when wearing a surgical mask.....

 

 

 

Anyone want to guess how they showed the exhalation in this video?  My guess is the guy exhaled a huge puff of a cigarette.

Edited May 27, 2021 by asiacurious

[pjmorton]

A lot of the discussion about what kind of mask to wear is of second-order importance. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. The nice thing about cloth masks with a neck loop is that they are always there. No need to fuss around and wonder which pocket you stuffed it into, or whether it actually belongs to you or a family member. In an uncrowded outdoor location you can slip it off, and in crowded indoor locations you can add a second surgical-type mask underneath. Yes, cloth alone is likely more permeable to viruses, but always there, thus much better than being caught without a mask. This business of comparing the size of the holes and the size of the virus may be necessary in a scientific study, but not practical for day-to-day risk reduction.

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, wombat said:

Have you looked at the size of the virus and the size of the hole in the weaves of masks?

My eyes aren't that good. 

[kaneko86]

I spend last January bringing food and eating everyday lunch with my covid infected parents (obviously without mask). Didn't catch anything and would me more than happy if I wouldn't have to wear a mask altogether.

 

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I avoid people other than family and don't have to wear any mask at home....

But you must if you are in the car with your Mrs!

[DerbyDan]

27 minutes ago, kaneko86 said:

I spend last January bringing food and eating everyday lunch with my covid infected parents (obviously without mask). Didn't catch anything and would me more than happy if I wouldn't have to wear a mask altogether.

 

Well that guy played russian roulette and lived i guess hes superman

[bkk6060]

Double-masking — specifically, wearing a surgical mask underneath a cloth mask — may provide an extremely high level of protection against the viral particles that cause Covid-19, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported

 

Double-masking, with a surgical mask and a cloth mask, they found, upped the protection for the wearer significantly, blocking 83 percent of small particles from an unmasked individual.

 

Interesting.

It seems that double masking may offer greater protection then the SInovac vaccine which in several studies has around a 50% efficacy rate.

[Antonymous]

53 minutes ago, asiacurious said:

 

Although well conducted study is better than a video (see previous post, up two from this one, for my link to a study), let me share this video that shows what the one you posted doesn't show - the exhalation when wearing a surgical mask.....

 

 

 

Anyone want to guess how they showed the exhalation in this video?  My guess is the guy exhaled a huge puff of a cigarette.

 

When I posted a similar video in the middle of last year on TV, it got deleted, because at that time the narrative was that these masks prevented the spread of Covid, even though a brave group of scientists were trying hard to explain that this wasn't the case. Recently however the CDC has finally admitted that the virus is airborne and of course it passes straight through surgical and cloth masks, let alone around the open edges. Masks prevent you snotting your coughs and sneeze droplets over people, which is great, but they don't prevent the viral particles from spreading.

[asiacurious]

1 hour ago, kaneko86 said:

I spend last January bringing food and eating everyday lunch with my covid infected parents (obviously without mask). Didn't catch anything and would me more than happy if I wouldn't have to wear a mask altogether.

 

 

And you've had a serology test since to verify that you've never had Covid?  Because there is such a thing as asymptomatic Covid.

[RocketDog]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:02 PM, Jingthing said:

Does that crowd give you any grief for taking care as you do?

My GF and I both double mask as well, have been for a month. Paper mask covered with cloth mask. 

I know that because I'm waiting for Moderna, it will be a while, so we resolved to be hyper-vigilant for the duration. It's the cost of being stubborn, and I'm willing to pay it.

[kaneko86]

19 minutes ago, asiacurious said:

 

And you've had a serology test since to verify that you've never had Covid?  Because there is such a thing as asymptomatic Covid.

 

Yes. I went to check twice during the period when they were positive.

[dennnis]

You should lock yourself in the basement and for second protection throw the key away. 

[Antonymous]

6 minutes ago, dennnis said:

You should lock yourself in the basement and for second protection throw the key away. 

 

That was reasonably effective during WWII. So was this:

 

 

However, this thread appears to be fashion related and not a serious one about virus protection.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Antonymous said:

 

That was reasonably effective during WWII. So was this:

 

 

However, this thread appears to be fashion related and not a serious one about virus protection.

No 

It's serious. 

[Ireland32]

On 5/25/2021 at 9:59 PM, tifino said:

besides, the sheer bulk in having two cascaded N95 masks with valves, would be, well...   

valves expel Virus not good selfish 

[Ireland32]

43 minutes ago, dennnis said:

You should lock yourself in the basement and for second protection throw the key away. 

Go away flu bot 

[Antonymous]

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No 

It's serious. 

 

OK, being serious then...

 

Unfortunately wearing a paper mask and a cloth one over it is about as effective at stopping the spread of Covid virus as wearing paper undies covered with a cloth jock strap is in preventing a horny katoey on Pattaya beach from reaching in and grabbing your genitals. Though it might be more comfortable.

 

  + 

              Paper underpants                                       Cloth jockstrap

                                                                  

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Antonymous said:

 

OK, being serious then...

 

Unfortunately wearing a paper mask and a cloth one over it is about as effective at stopping the spread of Covid virus as wearing paper undies covered with a cloth jock strap is in preventing a horny katoey on Pattaya beach from reaching in and grabbing your genitals. Though it might be more comfortable.

 

  + 

              Paper underpants                                       Cloth jockstrap

                                                                  

 

Talk about not being serious. 

[davemos]

New findings reported Tuesday in a University of Louisville study challenge what has been the prevailing belief that mask mandates are necessary to slow the spread of the Wuhan coronavirus. The study notes that "80% of US states mandated masks during the COVID-19 pandemic" and while "mandates induced greater mask compliance, [they] did not predict lower growth rates when community spread was low (minima) or high (maxima)." Among other things, the study—conducted using data from the CDC covering multiple seasons—reports that "mask mandates and use are not associated with lower SARS-CoV-2 spread among US states."

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, nickmondo said:

sorry, but are you walking around with your eyes shut?

the masks are everywhere!!!  surgical and cloth.

you seriously have not seen?

The masks I've seen so far are NOTHING like these.  Cloth masks can't compare, and the cheap ones you get at 7/11 here, again, are NOTHING like what I just got.  Can't compare.

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, asiacurious said:

 

Although well conducted study is better than a video (see previous post, up two from this one, for my link to a study), let me share this video that shows what the one you posted doesn't show - the exhalation when wearing a surgical mask.....

 

 

 

Anyone want to guess how they showed the exhalation in this video?  My guess is the guy exhaled a huge puff of a cigarette.

Kinda hard to compare smoke with droplets.  Just doesn't work.

[Thomas J]

Double masking, triple masking, primarily protects "other people" from contracting Covid from you.   Is it a good idea, yes, but one should not be fooled into believing that somehow they have an impenetrable shield on that protects them from catching Covid. 

 

[Antonymous]

49 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Kinda hard to compare smoke with droplets.  Just doesn't work.

 

SARS-CoV-2 is a beta-coronavirus with a diameter between 60 nanometers (nm) and 140 nm, or 0.06 to 0.14 microns (micrometers). It is airborne. Paper masks and cloth masks can’t block this size of particle even when worn properly, completely airtight.

 

Even the best N95 masks can filter particles only as small as 0.3 microns.

 

However, virus-laden saliva or respiratory droplets expelled when talking or coughing measure between 5 and 10 microns and so masks may prevent a majority of respiratory droplets from escaping. So they are useful for that purpose. They will not prevent you from inhaling or exhaling the aerosolized virus though and won't stop you from becoming infected or infecting others in a closed environment.

 

As Fauci himself has explained:

“Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids …

 

Emerging Infectious Diseases May 2020; 26(5)

 

[supersomchai]

I thought my ffp2 and n95 masks were good till i got FIT tested in my local hospital (compulsory in uk if you work in hospital).

They tried 7 different ffp3 top end masks on me 6 failed and only 1 protected (fitted me correctly)me a GVS ff3 rd mask.

The way they test you is by putting a large airtight hood over you( while you are wearing your test mask)

and spray an odor into the hood and if you can smell or taste it the mask fails as it leaks.if you cant smell taste it the mask passes for you.

Then this mask is safe to wear around people with covid.

The bottom line is our faces are all different shapes and not all masks fit individual faces.

So double masking is a very good way to get round this problem.But not %100.

Ill be wearing my hospital mask when i fly to thailand this weekend.

problem is do you eat and drink on the plane and take your mask off

....problem???