British man accused of brutally murdering Thai girlfriend faces extradition from Spain

[PETERTHEEATER]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

He was eventually arrested in 2017 by Guardia Civil in Ibiza when he used his real name to book a car in a garage for repairs.

Another on the garages customer list was a Mr R. Bull.......?

[robblok]

Just now, Mr Meeseeks said:

He fled over the border to Malaysia by train, surely if he was wanted by Police he would have been picked up at immigration?

Fair point, not sure if he was already in the police its crosshairs at that time. If not there would be no fleeing of the police. 

 

 

[mikosan]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

We dont have a jury in the Netherlands either. Let professionals judge not juries. 

I absolutely agree.  Would you select 12 random numskulls, unskilled in the field, to analyse a technical piece of electronic equipment and give their opinion on it?  No of course not and that's a similar analogy to randomly picked, unskilled numbskulls, making a decision on evidence in a criminal trial. 

[rcuthbert]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/extradition-processes-and-review#extradition-of-uk-nationals

[malibukid]

it seems that Thailand attracts some of the nicest people

[BusyB]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

We dont have a jury in the Netherlands either. Let professionals judge not juries. 

 

Yes, that's an interesting debate.

 

In Britain a jury recently found protesters not guilty whom a judge would almost certainly have locked up.

 

The argument for judges being that they are trained in jurisprudence whereas jurors are not.

 

I think the jury was right by the way.

 

In Germany they deploy 'lay attendant' judges, who are called on for a certain period, rather like jurors. (Schöffen.) They sit together with the judge - usually 2 and 1 judge - and are guided by her/him.

 

But in Germany there's also an almost infinite appeal process and you really have to try r e a l hard here to actually get locked up.

 

(Just sayin', don't wanna hijack the thread.)

Edited May 28, 2021 by BusyB
added hijack disclaimer/added argument f o r judges and explained schöffen in detail. Just for clarity.

[Andrew65]

8 hours ago, mvdf said:

 

Interesting. So the garage did a background check or Interpol search on him? Or are garages linked to the police system?

 

Good to know he can't escape extradition. Even the ECHR affirmed Spain's decision. Time for some rice and tom kha soup with leftover fish heads. Despite the assurances that the death penalty is off the table, I'm almost certain that Thai courts will not consider time spent in prison in Spain as deductible from whatever sentenced is imposed. That's assuming he is convicted in Thailand of course.  

 

 

Foreign prisoners only tend to serve 8 years in prison in Thailand, after which they are sent to prisons in their home countries.

[Andrew65]

34 minutes ago, mikosan said:

I absolutely agree.  Would you select 12 random numskulls, unskilled in the field, to analyse a technical piece of electronic equipment and give their opinion on it?  No of course not and that's a similar analogy to randomly picked, unskilled numbskulls, making a decision on evidence in a criminal trial. 

Would you rely on a British judge to have knowledge of such things? Of course you wouldn't. They're away with the fairies anyway, living on a different planet.

Does any country use 'expert juries' anyway?

[Moonlover]

There's an account of his arrest in Ibiza here along with quite a bit more background information.

[Thai Dan]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

He needs to be locked up key thrown away for doing a runner, and no evidence they got him with her the night of the murder. What do you want cctv image of the murder ?. Chances highly likely he did it the timeline fits. Of course he denies it and of course he admits to taking her home. Bit hard to deny video evidence and DNA in your home.

 

You seem to know what they have lets wait and see, he will get a fair trial and then he will be locked up (at least for doing a runner). Besides running never made anyone look innocent chances of guilty really high.

On the other hand, would you feel sure that the RTP were going to fully investigate other/alternative evidence, or even look for any, or take your side of the story seriously (hypothetically speaking, Mr. Looker in this case)?  Or would you be fairly concerned that they might just be happy that they have someone to charge with the crime and have you convicted, with possibly nothing more than circumstantial evidence?

4. Circumstantial Evidence

Also known as indirect evidence, this type of evidence is used to infer something based on a series of facts separate from the fact the argument is trying to prove. It requires a deduction of facts from other facts that can be proven and, while not considered to be strong evidence, it can be relevant in a workplace investigation, which has a different burden of proof than a criminal investigation.

[Scouse123]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

He is a Brit, so probably a heavy drinker  far worse then steroid use for violence .

 

 

 

I am a Brit and not had alcohol by choice in eight months. Stereotyping without proof, are we?

 

I used to own pubs and clubs in North of England in my other life. I had doormen who took steroids when body building became the fashion in the early nineties.

 

They were difficult to control, could go from 0-80 in seconds with a customer, they were unreasonable and you could not talk to them in a correct fashion until they cooled down. I had to let many of them go.

 

In the trade it was known as ' Roid rage '  they could be hit in the face with a breeze block and not go down because they were so pumped up on steroids.  

 

Give me a drunk any day.

 

Based on evidence I saw daily,I think your post is incorrect.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

He fled over the border to Malaysia by train, surely if he was wanted by Police he would have been picked up at immigration?

Only if they had put out a bulletin in time. 

[Artisi]

5 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

It should every person's right to be tried by a jury of their peers. 

 

Some food for thought:-

 

Juries ensure community representation informs the weighing of evidence and allowing everyday perspectives to be incorporated into judging those accused of serious crimes. They ensure this decision-making is not just the province of elites (like judges) and keeps apace of changing community values.

 

Jurors in a trial also force transparency into the process by requiring evidence in court to be accessible to the average member of the community.

There are other advantages – in reaching complex decisions, 12 heads are better than one; gender and racial diversity are intrinsic, albeit imperfectly, in a jury mix; and, as jury deliberations require jurors to discuss, explain and deliberate, there is an airing and accounting of contrary views, in a process that reflects democratic principles. 

 

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/business-law/why-do-we-have-juries#:~:text=Juries ensure community representation informs,apace of changing community values.

 

Lay person participation in the legal system is considered central to a healthy democracy. Lawyers play a major role in making the laws in parliament. Judges then apply the laws. If juries weren’t used, lawyers would have a monopoly over the law. Lawyers have their own specialised language in which they communicate among themselves. Including juries in the legal system forces lawyers to use common language.

It’s the collective wisdom of 12 that makes a jury. Jurors bring to the trial 12 times more life experience than a judge. Psychological research has established that personal, subconscious biases can be identified and addressed in group discussion.

 

https://theconversation.com/all-about-juries-why-do-we-actually-need-them-and-can-they-get-it-wrong-112703

 

It's not a perfect system, nothing is, but juries are the best system we have.

 

Much like voting governments in is better than military coups. I'm sure you agree, no? 

 

To stay on topic, what about the Thai judge that recently killed himself over the corruption in the justice system here? That alone should be ringing alarm bells. 

This IS Thailand where a couple of hundred Baht can work wonders and overcome all obstacles - - - would you put your life on the line with Somchai et al in a trail by jury? 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Artisi

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

I am a Brit and not had alcohol by choice in eight months

20 years here, but by necessity rather than virtue. 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Artisi said:

This IS Thailand where a couple of hundred Baht can work wonders and overcome all obstacles - - - would you put your life on the line with Somchai et Al in a trail by jury? 

Much the same as in the USA by Brad and Hank, Germany by Gunther and Helmut, or the UK by Bert and Alf. 

Do you actually know anyone here called Somchai? 

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

I am a Brit and not had alcohol by choice in eight months. Stereotyping without proof, are we?

 

I used to own pubs and clubs in North of England in my other life. I had doormen who took steroids when body building became the fashion in the early nineties.

 

They were difficult to control, could go from 0-80 in seconds with a customer, they were unreasonable and you could not talk to them in a correct fashion until they cooled down. I had to let many of them go.

 

In the trade it was known as ' Roid rage '  they could be hit in the face with a breeze block and not go down because they were so pumped up on steroids.  

 

Give me a drunk any day.

 

Based on evidence I saw daily,I think your post is incorrect.

Drunk doormen is not a good idea. 

[Scouse123]

Guys,

 

A very tricky one. Not a lot of evidence now and a lot of time has passed by.

 

On one hand, if he killed a human being he shouldn't be allowed to just flee the country and walk away from murder. It seems weird, if nothing amiss, he took her all the way to Hua Hin, suggesting he spent a substantial amount of time with her as opposed to the short time hotel scenario.

 

He doesn't look good for doing a runner and even taking it to the European court. Why did he do all this from Spain and not the UK, his country of nationality? Spain is a notorious bolt hole for British law breakers, drug dealers and mafioso.

 

On the other hand, the Thai justice is rotten, the RTP are disgracefully corrupt, and I definitely don't think he would get a fair trial, although more chance in Bangkok, than Pattaya or the Islands, with it being the seat of power and more access to Embassies and closer attention paid.

 

One thing that does annoy me, is when the British couple were murdered and the UK offered technology and advanced methods to catch the guilty, they were pushed to one side, politely ignored, and given ' lip service ' only by Thai authorities who had already decided who they were going to hang this blame on. You had the Police Chief of Thailand and this Prime minister declaring guilt before the Burmese two went to court.

 

That side of me says why should Europe play ball with the Thais when this is the way they disregard other governments and Embassies due purely to their own arrogance. And one thing for sure, the Thais in any key positions are bloody arrogant.

 

However, the human side of me wants justice for that girl.

[sawadee1947]

8 hours ago, mvdf said:

 

Interesting. So the garage did a background check or Interpol search on him? Or are garages linked to the police system?

 

Good to know he can't escape extradition. Even the ECHR affirmed Spain's decision. Time for some rice and tom kha soup with leftover fish heads. Despite the assurances that the death penalty is off the table, I'm almost certain that Thai courts will not consider time spent in prison in Spain as deductible from whatever sentenced is imposed. That's assuming he is convicted in Thailand of course.  

 

 

almost certain that Thai courts will not consider time spent in prison in Spain as deductible from whatever sentenced 

 

Do you think really this matters? 

[Excel]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Much the same as in the USA by Brad and Hank, Germany by Gunther and Helmut, or the UK by Bert and Alf. 

Do you actually know anyone here called Somchai? 

Years ago I actually knew this lawyer called Somchai. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somchai_Neelapaijit

 

[jacko45k]

Just now, sawadee1947 said:

almost certain that Thai courts will not consider time spent in prison in Spain as deductible from whatever sentenced 

 

Do you think really this matters? 

Well it might be a small factor really... a 40 or 50 year sentence would not be impacted by much.

[Scouse123]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Drunk doormen is not a good idea. 

 

 

These guys I am referring to did not drink for two reasons.

 

1. Doormen are not allowed to drink alcohol under our rules and staff would not serve them with it..

 

2. They weren't interested in alcohol as they were training up to six days a week and classed alcohol such as beer as ' empty carbs ' that would get in the way of their training.

[Deli]

5 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I would suggest if that is all the evidence there is then it would be difficult to convict on that basis. The evidence is purely circumstantial.

 

He is already convicted, no chance unless loaded.

[RobMuir]

Sounds like yet another case of the frail British ego.

[RocketDog]

8 hours ago, Tarteso said:

Enjoy the trip, see you next fall…. At Bangkok Hilton.

Will you check in before or after him?

[RocketDog]

I wouldn't trust the guy. Look at his eyes.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

Sounds like yet another case of the frail British ego.

Frail ego? Really how so?

 

He's not been convicted yet and while he may be guilty what has his ego got to do with it?

[riclag]

Nobody deserves to be murdered ! No matter what the circumstances were leading up to it !

If proven guilty, I'm sure there will be  a reserved seat for him in hell or a Thai prison

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by riclag

[Neeranam]

19 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

These guys I am referring to did not drink for two reasons.

 

1. Doormen are not allowed to drink alcohol under our rules and staff would not serve them with it..

 

2. They weren't interested in alcohol as they were training up to six days a week and classed alcohol such as beer as ' empty carbs ' that would get in the way of their training.

Right, I was confused as you said you

 

"In the trade it was known as ' Roid rage '  they could be hit in the face with a breeze block and not go down because they were so pumped up on steroids.  

Give me a drunk any day."

 

So you meant you'd rather deal with a drunk customer than a bouncer on steroids?

 

[bougnat]

I hope that he will not have a jury from TV ..... When the people enter through the door of a courthouse, justice comes out the window ...

Welcome Torquemada !

 

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[RobMuir]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

from a bar in Nana Plaza.

Sounds like a case of Looker and the hooker.