Does COVID-19 origin really matter?

[Heng]

Well, the first rule of slip and fall.... you do it in Walmart, not the local Party Barn franchise.    So there will never be any question or interest in who got naughty with a pig or monkey in Mexico or Kenya.   

[heybruce]

Does it matter if auto accidents are caused by poor driving, unsafe vehicles, or unsafe road conditions?  Of course.  If you want to reduce accidents you must know how they are caused.

 

Does it matter if this pandemic was caused by interactions between wild animals and people, poor safety practices at a laboratory, or deliberately created and released?  Of course.  If you want to prevent or contain future pandemics you must know how they are caused.

 

For practical reasons it matters.

[Kinnock]

I think knowing the origin will provide more valuable, actionable information than flying a helicopter on Mars.

 

For preventing future pandemics and for the mother of all class actions.

[overherebc]

At the end of the day/debate there will still be two schools of thought.

One side who will always believe it just jumped from beast to man and the other side who believe it came from a lab'. No-one on either side will convince the other.

Believe it or not I have had emails from one guy in the states who passes on the most amazing web reports that Covid doesn't exist and it is all a multi-government plan to get us to accept the vaccines that will start to kill off most of the world population in two generations and they refer to parts of the bible that 'if read the right way' prove it. ????????.

At first I thought he was sending them as a laugh but it turned out he believed them and was/is serious.

My view is it's a nasty little virus that can kill if you, because of health or problems related to age, are vulnerable to it.

All I want is a chance with a vaccine.

[AnnieSeek]

4 hours ago, whiteman said:

if it proved from the lab make them pay $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 What if they say no ?

[phills2k1]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Of course it matters, the truth always matters, will we get to know it though, na. Everything remains speculation. Beyond all reasonable doubt will not be enough.

Yup. In a literal sense, it matters.  In a practical sense, it means absolutely nothing because even if the world got to the bottom of it with 100% certainty (which likely impossible now for reasons listed above), China will just do what every demagogue does, be it trump, putin, bolsonero, and call it fake news.  And even some by some stroke of microscopic luck there's a smoking gun that China can't ignore, nothing will happen. They won't be punished, there won't be restitution.  Hell they wouldn't even admit fault. 

 

This is all just posturing by every other major country in the world to 1) damage China and 2) find a scapegoat for their horrific handling of the virus and 3) placate the xenophobic right wingers of their populous that are looking blood while also trying to score points by painting the liberals as being too "woke" to care about this (when as mentioned above, nothing would actually come from it)

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, phills2k1 said:

Yup. In a literal sense, it matters.  In a practical sense, it means absolutely nothing because even if the world got to the bottom of it with 100% certainty (which likely impossible now for reasons listed above), China will just do what every demagogue does, be it trump, putin, bolsonero, and call it fake news.  And even some by some stroke of microscopic luck there's a smoking gun that China can't ignore, nothing will happen. They won't be punished, there won't be restitution.  Hell they wouldn't even admit fault. 

 

This is all just posturing by every other major country in the world to 1) damage China and 2) find a scapegoat for their horrific handling of the virus and 3) placate the xenophobic right wingers of their populous that are looking blood while also trying to score points by painting the liberals as being too "woke" to care about this (when as mentioned above, nothing would actually come from it)

I take it you don't think it is important for scientists and health experts to know how a pandemic got started in order to prevent or contain future pandemics.

[phills2k1]

That was what I meant by, "in a literal sense it matters"

[timendres]

While the origin of the virus is important, I believe the CCP's initial handling of the outbreak in China is of far more importance. The clear evidence of cover ups at the beginning is a disturbing continuation of previous behavior. Worse, the intentional "exporting" of the virus is, in my opinion, criminal.

[heybruce]

26 minutes ago, phills2k1 said:

That was what I meant by, "in a literal sense it matters"

In a practical sense it does matter.  In fact it is literally of great importance.

[kynikoi]

If the lie that China was selling were true perhaps not so much.

 

It should have been obvious to even a moron this thing got loose from the lab and Chinese covered it up. This is why it matters. They then let it fly around the globe to kill a million and damage economies do they wouldn't be disadvantaged. Quite Chinese really.

 

It also matters because pretty much every pandemic virus has come out of China in last hundred years. Obvious something very wrong there.

 

I boycott what I can.

Edited June 4, 2021 by kynikoi

[kynikoi]

2 hours ago, AnnieSeek said:

 What if they say no ?

 

Tarrifs on goods

 

Close trade

[phills2k1]

24 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

 

Tarrifs on goods

 

Close trade

You understand why something like freezing China out in trade will / could never happen, right?  This is all just talk for that hypothetical scenario where the ENTIRE world doesn't rely on China manufacturing, consumer goods, and exports right?

[phills2k1]

I mean, in 2019 when trump started his BS trade war (which of course helped manipulate the markets to the advantage of everyone in the know), they provided corporate welfare to the tune of $26 billion to the farming industry.  That was just due to tariffs in agriculture (where of course, republicans suddenly have zero issue with welfare).

 

You think that countries are seriously going to tank the global economy in the midst / tail end of a pandemic, solely as a means of punishment? Or what, to deter them from being negligent with their labs moving forward? Do you REALLY think that this is something that would achieve any "success"?

 

Governments / corporations are terrified to say something that's the slightest bit critical of the fact that China is commencing with an actual genocide. But now the entire world is going to band together to shun them over this, which will literally destroy what remains of the world's economy

 

Sure thing

[phills2k1]

As has been the case countless other times, the Chinese government didn't give a flying **** about the potential ramifications of their actions. it's happened with pollution impacting climate change and destroying rivers and other habitats, the forced relocation of untold citizens, and the murder and starvation of millions.  And there were no international represcussions  They literally just stole back one of the most important places in the world in Hong Kong and nothing

 

In a perfect world, the rest of society doesn't rely on them so much and can actually bring on measures to enact change now and in the future.  That the world isn't perfect. And there's absolutely nothing that can or will be done to them in the likely event that they were responsible for the pandemic

[Fex Bluse]

Saying no is completely irresponsible and fairly daft. 

 

The Chinese have since been super aggressive all over the world. Any reasonable person can see this has been a deliberate attack. 

 

Anyway, this Thai PBS propaganda (potentially paid for by China) is pointless. The world WILL find out and there will almost certainly be military conflict in the next 5 to 10 years. 

 

China will pay a heavy price. 

 

 

[Fex Bluse]

4 hours ago, phills2k1 said:

Yup. In a literal sense, it matters.  In a practical sense, it means absolutely nothing because even if the world got to the bottom of it with 100% certainty (which likely impossible now for reasons listed above), China will just do what every demagogue does, be it trump, putin, bolsonero, and call it fake news.  And even some by some stroke of microscopic luck there's a smoking gun that China can't ignore, nothing will happen. They won't be punished, there won't be restitution.  Hell they wouldn't even admit fault. 

 

This is all just posturing by every other major country in the world to 1) damage China and 2) find a scapegoat for their horrific handling of the virus and 3) placate the xenophobic right wingers of their populous that are looking blood while also trying to score points by painting the liberals as being too "woke" to care about this (when as mentioned above, nothing would actually come from it)

 

Wow. It's incredible that China has "wumao" posting to Thai forums. But, there are 20 million wumao, so I suppose it's easy to devote a couple to this forum. 

 

How much do they pay? 

[AndyFoxy]

6 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

 

Wow. It's incredible that China has "wumao" posting to Thai forums. But, there are 20 million wumao, so I suppose it's easy to devote a couple to this forum. 

 

How much do they pay? 

50 cents

[phills2k1]

What in the hell are you talking about?

[phills2k1]

Seriously, how dull are you to read those posts and think it's propaganda?  I mentioned multiple times about how many <deleted> up things China has done.  All I said was that there won't be any real world ramifications to them if it were to come out that they released it in any possible way

 

It seems like every day I'm saying I haven't seen a more insanely incorrect post on this forum, and once again, here we are

[lucky2008]

It really doesn't matter. 

We already know who was funding gain-of-function research on coronaviruses.

The big question we should be asking ourselves is if it was intentionally released.  

[Freeduhdum]

2 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

It really doesn't matter. 

We already know who was funding gain-of-function research on coronaviruses.

The big question we should be asking ourselves is if it was intentionally released.  

Exactly the right question. You win the forum today... Seemingly there are some desperate measures occurring to not have this conversation. I suspect there are lot of cock roaches scurrying for the dark corners of the room so to speak. Two top CDC directors in how many weeks have quit. I suspect China has destroyed all the evidence by now. 

[Damrongsak]

4 hours ago, kynikoi said:

 

Tarrifs on goods

 

Close trade

The problem with that is that some nations have left it to the Chinese to supply essential goods or raw materials.  To the point that we would be cutting off our noses to spite our face.  Dependency on others is a dangerous game, except for the elites who will take care of each other and profit on the trade. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Damrongsak

[metisdead]

Off topic posts, inflammatory posts, troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[dinsdale]

One of the main investigators in the WHO team sent to China is directly linked to the Wuhan Lab. His name is Peter Dasak involved in gain of function research at the lab. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by dinsdale

[Freeduhdum]

1 minute ago, Nojohndoe said:

If that is a reference in support of "getting to the truth" perhaps the mention of the basis of the Iraqi war and history behind Saddam Hussein's rise to infamy maybe as or more relevant?

It was indeed. However the ministry of truth has memory holed the suggestion already, so it's clearly not relevant. Lol. 

[friendofthai]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Imagine what can happen if the new probe’s results confirm the US claims that the coronavirus came from a lab leak in China. Imagine that the new probe confirms Beijing has been right all along and Washington has been wrong all the time.

Virus does not leave traces. There should be no illusions that its origin could be tracked down. I can imagine that again Colin Powell will try to shake his lovely test tube "with COVID from Wuhan lab" in UN . And thousands young western guys will have to try on a new military uniform.

[Nojohndoe]

It is quite clear that the CCP interfered in the release of information in the early days of the outbreak.

But when the information was released and international scrutiny of the actual virus got underway there was some minor mention of "possible" manipulation of the virus which soon was overwhelmed by international opinion that it was of more natural origin .

I find it curious that after more than one year the claims of manipulation and "gain of function" have regained claims for credibility and are in support of a potentially very dangerous political posturing.

 

[Stargeezr]

Considering that Wuhan was the first place in the world that people started dying from the COVID virus,

and the doctors that talked about this virus were pressured to be quiet by the Chinese government,  I

think the the origins of this Wuhan virus are quite easy to see.    When China was trying to throw the blame on

anyone but them selves, made the case of origin that much stronger.  Whether it came from the wet market, or nearby

does not seem to be that important.  More important to know is, if this virus was from an animal.  It is important for all of us even for the Chinese to

know if the virus is indeed an animal to human transferred virus or a lab leak, that also could have infected some animal

in the nearby area, and the virus made it to the nearby wet market.  So long answer is  Yes it is pretty important to know

the origin of this Corona virus that has killed a lot of people all over the world.     Do you know where the origin of the Ebola

is from?   Hmmm.  Is that information important to you, as in making your decision to go to the place where it started, and

maybe be unlucky enough to catch it.     Answer that question,  then you may be closer to wondering why most people want

to know where the COVID virus came from and how.

Geezer

[clivebaxter]

10 hours ago, scorecard said:

Do we? Please share the facts.

China as well probably

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health