Digital nomads to be allowed to work in Thailand without needing a work permit

[jacob29]

7 hours ago, Hyna said:

Many digital nomads don't pay tax in any country, working under the radar. 

If they would pay tax their work would not be so lucrative anymore. 

Many are still paying tax in at least one jurisdiction. What would typically happen is 17% would be paid in Thailand, and due to double taxation treaties reduce the tax obligation in the other country. Which means no change in tax, only where it's paid.

 

6 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

If they have this type of income, they won't come to Thailand.

On the contrary, you wouldn't want to be earning much less than this to live in Thailand. Anyone working full time for a US company is almost certainly earning more.

[ukrules]

7 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

But seriously. Are they joking? It is really like welcome and your not welcome all in one big sentence. 

 

It betrays their intentions. They allow it but make it very hard to achieve through roadblocks and obstruction.

 

Suggesting they don't actually want or expect anyone to come which is about right, nobody will come.

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by ukrules

[FitnessHealthTravel]

Hilarious! Another English word misunderstood or take out of context.  A digital nomad is usually a bum who can't get a job in their own countries and especially some of the one here in the South who just scam, pretend to be photographers and digital influencers.

 

<deleted> with Wifi...

 

Does the Thai Government believe it is an actual 'position' in a creditable company?  Of course there is 'working remotely' but I'm pretty sure the executives I know who do this wouldn't like to be called a Digital Nomad...

 

Here in the south they send out proposals to get free stuff for favourable reviews on Google and TripAdvisor. It's the new scam.  I have been working remotely for 16 years and more than meet the requirements of this new proposal but don't ever call me a 'Freaking Digital Nomad' ???? 

[ExpatDraco]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

 

It's not that simple.   Supposing I wrote a book here.   I then got it published by a US publishing company.    I receive royalties from book sales which were predominantly in the USA.   Would that be Thai sourced income because I happened to write the book here?  Or would it be US sourced income? 

 

Apples and oranges. Writing a book isn't the same as working for remote clients/companies and getting paid every month or by contract. You'll have to talk to a royalties expert...

Edited June 7, 2021 by ExpatDraco

[LivinLOS]

4 minutes ago, ExpatDraco said:

 

Apples and oranges. Writing a book isn't the same as working for remote clients/companies. You'll have to talk to a royalties expert...

I saw this asked and answered.. if the book had an advance on royalties they 100% yes.. The answer they gave was that 'if the book was simply written for pleasure' which strikes me as slightly ridiculous unless you were just into creative writing, then no the writing aspect wasnt work, if it was commissioned work eg writing technical manuals it was work, and there was some unsaid air left in the middle. 

Finally being paid royalties after the fact, the same as dividend income, investment income, residual commission payments etc are not work and do not need a work permit. These form of earnings are passive income. 

Actually a good breakdown of a not entirely dissimilar example in in video blogging. I asked this question back in 2014 in an effort to get them to clarify around active v passive income. 

https://thethaiger.com/issues-answers/asked/is-uploading-videos-to-youtube-considered-work
 

I have a YouTube channel showing a video diary of my travels around Thailand – promoting the country and activities here.

I am trying to understand what laws I need to be aware of in relation to my current and past activities. Is uploading videos to YouTube considered work? Does it matter if I have YouTube ads turned on or off?

I have many other videos on my channel, which I made 100 per cent outside Thailand – before my arrival. If I have ads turned on and am being paid for these past activities while I am in the Kingdom, is this considered work?

Concerned vlogger, Thailand.

No, it isn’t, as long as the uploading is for fun or to share on social media networks publicly for free. However, if you turn on YouTube ads while living in Thailand, or post them in your own blog where they can collect revenue, this could be considered work. Even if you posted videos while outside Thailand, but then activated or turned on ads related to them, this would still be considered work, as you would be making money while in the country. It means you are working while you are living in the Kingdom. However, if you activated the ads before entering the country, but still received revenue once entering the country for your holiday, then this would not be considered as working while staying in Thailand.

Yaowapa Pibulpol, chief of Phuket Provincial Employment Office (PPEO).

[holy cow cm]

34 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

It betrays their intentions. They allow it but make it very hard to achieve through roadblocks and obstruction.

 

Suggesting they don't actually want or expect anyone to come which is about right, nobody will come.

 

Yes it is like saying: And don't say we never did. But with this it mostly can never be.

[James105]

31 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Actually a good breakdown of a not entirely dissimilar example in in video blogging. I asked this question back in 2014 in an effort to get them to clarify around active v passive income. 

https://thethaiger.com/issues-answers/asked/is-uploading-videos-to-youtube-considered-work
 

I have a YouTube channel showing a video diary of my travels around Thailand – promoting the country and activities here.

I am trying to understand what laws I need to be aware of in relation to my current and past activities. Is uploading videos to YouTube considered work? Does it matter if I have YouTube ads turned on or off?

I have many other videos on my channel, which I made 100 per cent outside Thailand – before my arrival. If I have ads turned on and am being paid for these past activities while I am in the Kingdom, is this considered work?

Concerned vlogger, Thailand.

No, it isn’t, as long as the uploading is for fun or to share on social media networks publicly for free. However, if you turn on YouTube ads while living in Thailand, or post them in your own blog where they can collect revenue, this could be considered work. Even if you posted videos while outside Thailand, but then activated or turned on ads related to them, this would still be considered work, as you would be making money while in the country. It means you are working while you are living in the Kingdom. However, if you activated the ads before entering the country, but still received revenue once entering the country for your holiday, then this would not be considered as working while staying in Thailand.

Yaowapa Pibulpol, chief of Phuket Provincial Employment Office (PPEO).

 

Was that a tax question or whether or not their activities constitute "work" which is not legal with a tourist visa, which would be entirely different to tax?  I guess its really a question for Thai specialist tax advisors/lawyers, and if I did remove my tax liability from the UK I would definitely get one.   

[nomad73]

1 hour ago, FitnessHealthTravel said:

Hilarious! Another English word misunderstood or take out of context.  A digital nomad is usually a bum who can't get a job in their own countries and especially some of the one here in the South who just scam, pretend to be photographers and digital influencers.

 

<deleted> with Wifi...

 

Does the Thai Government believe it is an actual 'position' in a creditable company?  Of course there is 'working remotely' but I'm pretty sure the executives I know who do this wouldn't like to be called a Digital Nomad...

 

Here in the south they send out proposals to get free stuff for favourable reviews on Google and TripAdvisor. It's the new scam.  I have been working remotely for 16 years and more than meet the requirements of this new proposal but don't ever call me a 'Freaking Digital Nomad' ???? 

Thanks buddy I am not a bum and I can get a job in my own country, however 18 years ago I decided to be a freelancer and I like that a lot more (with a lot more free time) then standing 60 hours in a restaurant kitchen serving attitude a-holes like you.. ???? whatever someone his job is, is because he choose for it not because he is not capable to get anything else and does it make someone less, you think the toilet women is less? Probably you think that. I am happy people work no matter what they do. At least they not a-holes or lazy

Edited June 7, 2021 by nomad73

[jwbrit]

The big money grab ideas don't work. TAT might as well buy lottery tickets.  Please hire some foreign advisors to explain what might be an appealing package for foreigners. Digital nomads tend to be rebels and not Masters degree conformists. Even Bill Gates and Mark Zuck dropped out of undergraduate studies.

[Richard Hall]

Reckon, a Mark Zuckerberg wouldn't qualify as an university drop out.

[ExpatOne]

9 hours ago, Hyna said:

Many digital nomads don't pay tax in any country, working under the radar. 

If they would pay tax their work would not be so lucrative anymore. 

They may not be interested.

 

 

If you knew anything you would realize the foolishness of your comment. Digital Nomads generate income that comes with a digital paper trail. 
 

Getting paid to your bank account, PayPal, Wise, etc. forces us into the radar.

 

Instead, we apply tax strategies that massively reduce our tax obligations in addition to the tax discount a lot of us get from being out of our home countries.

For example, those of us making good money from the states get our first $106k (always rising) federal tax free. That means, if we make $150-$200k or more (Before you waste your thumb energy with a snide remark a lot of us make that kind of money) and live off of the overflow and stay out of our home country for 10 years we get to put an extra million plus into retirement over that time. That doesn’t include compounding interest. 

 

So, I think we’ll be fine and for those of us who are taking that approach we are indeed interested. The only real issue is the out dated educational requirements since education isn’t reflected in income or abilities in modern times.

[Poet]

3 hours ago, rumak said:

where did that come from ?

From watching the same handful of bitter chaps pop up and spew bile every time the phrase "digital nomad" is mentioned on this forum.

 

3 hours ago, rumak said:

don't know your age,  but sure seems like you are the one expressing some nonsense from a perceived sense of superiority .

It is not an age thing. Note that I specifically said "state pensions", so, I am not talking about guys who have worked, built skills, and been enterprising all their lives. In my experience, those guys can be killers when they start operating online themselves.

My observation, both on forums and real life, is that the people most enraged by people making a good living online are those who have blasted through their life developing few skills and accumulating little money. The very idea that some kid can pick up a laptop, spend a few weeks watching videos about Web Design or social media marketing or whatever, and then be able to make more money each week than they receive each month, personally offends them.

Myself, I find the term "digital nomad" silly, and the idea of a "digital nomad community" ridiculous, especially those self-appointed representatives who bizarrely imagine that some sort of digital nomad visa would be a good thing.

Humans have worked while traveling for centuries. Some of us had been doing so with laptops for decades before some bright spark coined the DN phrase. The only difference is that, over the past two decades, an ever-increasing amount of work and trade has shifted online. The pandemic has only accelerated that. Most people working or running online businesses do so from a fixed abode. Traveling is, however, an attractive option, and Thailand is a nice place to stay for a few months.

One must be truly blinded by bitterness to characterize all of these people as penniless charlatans, pretending to make money online but actually getting bailed out by their long-suffering parents. A few online workers, right here in Chiang Mai, are making astonishing amounts of money, millions of dollars per month, because they started the right type of business at the right time.

Most online workers are making what would be considered a decent professional wage back in the states. That goes a long way here, but most tend to live fairly simple lives, rolling their money back into their businesses or investing in stocks, domains, and crypto.

Even at the start, when people are finding their feet, it is almost impossible not to make at least a hundred dollars per day, and you can live reasonably well on that in Thailand.

I believe I could take anyone of average intelligence and a high school education (so, basic literacy and numeracy) and, if they are willing to focus for 8 hours per day, six days per week, get them to at least $100 per day within a month. Young, old, it doesn't matter. From there, the sky is the limit if someone is willing to focus on developing their skills rather than marinating in bitterness.

 

3 hours ago, rumak said:

It is only those that then think they are experts on all things Thai..... or life for that matter. 

That can happen at any age.......... as your post shows us

My post had nothing to do with "all things Thai". It observed a chip-on-the-shoulder common to bitter and jealous chaps, in all countries, who consider themselves too old to learn new skills. There is nothing specifically Thai about that.

I appreciate that your parting shot probably made more sense in your head before you typed it out ????

[gearbox]

3 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

 

10 year visa, with presumably a path to citizenship because there's tax history.. and the right to own land.. 

What more do you expect ??? For 0 tax on non domestic income ?? 

 

Do you really get eligible tax history for citizenship with 0 tax paid for domestic income ?

 

If the cost of the 10 years visa and the bureaucracy involved is comparable to 10 x non-O retirement extension renewals it might be a good plan B.

A lot of small details are missing although, is this a true 10 year visa or one year visa which can be extended 9 times? What happens if you decide to take for example a two year work break?

[newnative]

Another bad headline.  Just a proposal at this point.  

[SiSePuede419]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

Under the proposals, ‘digital nomads’ or people who want to come and work remotely from Thailand will be able to do just that providing they show a regular income from overseas.

OK, those with a trust fund pretending to be working are fine, but those who are criminals might be worried because their incomes tend to be more irregular. ????

[Tengtai]

So in essens, they don't want to have any real "digital nomads" to come. 

[BestB]

3 hours ago, thanaka said:

Your average wordpress developer and Yoast configurator will not earn 80'000, yes. A specialised web-, app- or backend developer will earn this money. Professional SEO is extremely expensive because it overlaps with many other aspects like Marketing and Development and takes a lot of time, knowledge and money to build a network and pay for the tools you need to do your job.

 

Your average joe, who at the age of 35 decides to visit a web design workshop and since then buys themes of themeforest to sell finished products to customers, will probably not earn 80k a year. 

Professionals who work in their field of expertise since many years and have established themselves within the industry will earn that money, without a single doubt. Especially on a contract base.

 

You may well be right, but what you forgetting is that those who are professionals earning top money will not be digital nomads or moving to Thailand, may be a few, most certainly not in droves requiring special visa ????

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

10 hours ago, EricTh said:

These digital nomads are already working illegally in Thailand so this new rule just make them legal but they must pay digital nomad visa fees instead.

 

This silly rule, if it ever comes to pass (it won't) will be really good news for the nomads it'll apply to, all three or four of them. Any such person earning over 80,000 per month will be earning far in excess of that and won't need to take this proposed route anyway. If the government want to entertain themselves with the notion they can strike it rich by attracting a handful for Wordpress 'gurus' trying to stay alive making 5 Dollars per hour competing with Sanjay from New Delhi, with a girl in Cowboy or on an extended dreadlock holiday then let them go through the motions.

 

I launched a hotel, established an IT business, and am about to embark on the biggest project of my life in Thailand for the next 4 or 5 years, without qualifications, instead leveraging my experience, connections and inner Machiavelli. Graduates are invariably clueless pr!cks and their qualifications serve only to inflate their sense of entitlement over those with better experience. I find it utterly absurd that the Thai authorities tacitly acknowledge this by setting the fiscal bar higher for non-graduates. Absurd, really.

Frankly, if not for the fact I married into the country Thailand would have been the last place I'd have chosen.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[cncltd1973]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

To qualify for the ‘digital nomad visa’, applicants will need to have a minimum personal income (salary, investment income, etc.) of at least $80,000 per year for the past 2 years or $40,000 per year with a master’s degree or above/intellectual property ownership or have received Series A funding.

 

They will also need 5 years working experience and have health insurance $100,000 or more of medical expenses. 

 

For companies which apply for the scheme, they will need to be listed on the stock exchange of their respective country or have been trading for at least 3 years and have a total income of 50 million US dollars over the past 3 years.

 

Only the best digital nomads are wanted in Thailand, and I bet most of the best will look elsewhere! This government with its head in the clouds, doesn't see how much dog sh** its been tracking all over this country

[Tubby]

LOL pay tax! I been a DN here for 12 years on my wifes WP. This is complete pants! 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

26 minutes ago, cncltd1973 said:

 

Only the best digital nomads are wanted in Thailand

 

Ah, I get it now, Asia's Digital Nomad Hub™

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

11 minutes ago, Tubby said:

LOL pay tax! I been a DN here for 12 years on my wifes WP. This is complete pants! 

 

It's pants until you get audited and back taxed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[thanaka]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

You may well be right, but what you forgetting is that those who are professionals earning top money will not be digital nomads or moving to Thailand, may be a few, most certainly not in droves requiring special visa ????

This is not top money. It's barely average for a good Dev or a SEO specialist. Also you highly underestimate how many there are. There's a reason why places like Chiang Mai or some southern Island make it into top 10 rankings of places for digital nomads every year. Half of the people I've met during last year who came here were working remotely. Especially now where companies all around the world changed their infrastructure to accommodate remote workers due to covid, there is a bigger demand for destinations than there has ever been before and it will only increase

[InevitableCost]

Dam I make about 50-60k per year. I'm a multi millionaire by Thailand standards and I don't qualify.. They must be kidding. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by InevitableCost

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

1 minute ago, InevitableCost said:

I'm a multi millionaire by Thailand standards. .... .. They must be kidding. 

 

YOU'RE kidding, right?

[The Cipher]

2 hours ago, Poet said:

I believe I could take anyone of average intelligence and a high school education (so, basic literacy and numeracy) and, if they are willing to focus for 8 hours per day, six days per week, get them to at least $100 per day within a month. Young, old, it doesn't matter. From there, the sky is the limit if someone is willing to focus on developing their skills rather than marinating in bitterness.

 

I'll take you up on this. Will give you a percentage of operating income up to a negotiable maximum cap for your trouble. ????

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by The Cipher

[Poet]

23 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

I'll take you up on this. Will give you a percentage of revenue up to a negotiable maximum cap for your trouble. ????

If I remember your posts correctly, you are a good writer. Maybe start there.

One month, treat it like a job, 9-5, six days a week.

Learn all you can about how people get paid to write online and, in particular, specialized forms of writing such as SEO or editing résumés or marketing copy etc.

Alternatively, choose an application that does something for which there is always demand: video-editing, audio-editing, podcast producing, animation, photo restoration, making graphs etc. Spend a month learning every facet and feature of that application, master advanced features such as macros, hone your skills and increase your speed.

Alternatively, if you prefer the idea of coding, same thing, 8 hours a day, six days a week.

Spend the first week learning fundamental programming concepts in the morning, and the afternoons researching where you can get freelance works, what languages or frameworks are in demand etc.

Once you have chosen a language or frameworks, spend the mornings watching tutorials and copying everything yourself. Spend the afternoons learning about which tools, such as editors or IDEs are popular for that language or framework.

Always take your evenings off, get away from your screens, exercise, sleep on time.

Devote your four sharp morning hours towards learning concepts, and your four afternoon hours towards more general, lay-of-the-land research.

Whether writing or coding, stay focused, like a laser, on gaining enough skill and industry knowledge within one month to start taking on the most basic freelance jobs. Now you are getting paid to learn more.

REMEMBER: Being able to communicate with clients, being organized, delivering on time, and not overpromising or underestimating timelines are all more important than your actual skills. Most freelancers are delusional, do not have even the basics, and mess their clients about dreadfully. Simply being sane will single you out as a gem. Your age, education, or prior experience will not matter at all.

Earning $100 per day is a very low target - even the lowest level of online teachers earn more than that. The point is that what you can charge increases rapidly as your reputation for being reliable is established, as the number of things you can do grows, and as the speed at which you can complete tasks increases.

Again, if anyone is serious about getting to the first level of being paid to perform tasks online, you can achieve that within a month. You just have to want it enough to drop everything else: YouTube, TikTok, Reddit, ThaiVisa, Facebook, porn, TV, alcohol etc. You have to want it enough to make your partner, family, and friends understand that you are working, and must not be disturbed during those 8 hours each day.

Most people actually don't want it enough to put all those addictions on hold for a month, but that does not mean it is not possible, it just means that you are not yet ready.

 

[balo]

15 hours ago, webfact said:

For companies which apply for the scheme, they will need to be listed on the stock exchange of their respective country or have been trading for at least 3 years and have a total income of 50 million US dollars over the past 3 years.

That will leave out 97% of all the worlds digital nomads, most of us work small scale for small companies.  So forget it.
 

 

[mikosan]

14 hours ago, Poet said:

To be fair, it gives all the bitter, low-skilled members here, struggling to remain in Thailand on state pensions, a chance to express how superior they are compared to these young people who have embraced the Internet, have developed enough skills to be able to be their own bosses, are traveling the world instead of being stuck in an office, and are living a life that the begrudgers could only dream of.

 

Is that the best you can do?  Pathetic.  There are many of us living here who have had successful careers and live on good pensions.  However, we have subsequently embraced the internet and are fully aware of the opportunities it offers and have taken advantage of same.  That said, I wish the new generation of 'digital nomads' all the very best and hope, without much faith, that this latest initiative from the Thai government helps them, regardless of the convoluted way it is has been presented. 

[Poet]

1 minute ago, mikosan said:

Is that the best you can do?  Pathetic.  There are many of us living here who have had successful careers and live on good pensions.  However, we have subsequently embraced the internet and are fully aware of the opportunities it offers and have taken advantage of same.

I have no idea what our disagreement is here.

I was writing about the begrudgers on extremely limited state pensions to whom it is a matter of utmost urgency to claim that none of the digital nomads are earning any money at all. Seriously, they rise like zombies every time that phrase appears.

Rather than learn some new skills and take advantage of the online opportunities that have opened up for all of us who enjoy living in Thailand, they would rather continue believing that none of it is possible.

You do not appear to fall into this category. You have not spent your life on the dole. You have had a career, earned money, and do not have to rely on the state during your golden years. Keeping your mind sharp means that, unlike the begrudgers, you have been able to continue learning, experimenting, and gaining new skills. Your personal self-esteem does not depend on believing that all the millions of digital nomads are all faking it.