Thai woman dies hours after receiving AstraZeneca vaccine

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, FATOZ said:

My Mother in Law never smoked in her life, died of lung canceer. My grandmother smoked for 91 years and died at 105. if its going to get you, its going to get you

 

Nice try, but that is not how it works.........imagine each cigarette is like throwing five dice.....each time they come up all sixes you get a mutation in the cells lining the lungs. If they come up all sixes more than 20 times you get cancer.

 

A non-smoker is throwing the equivalent of 10 dice.

[rabas]

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

The type of sudden death you are talking about is present with all the vaccines, including the Moderna.  Your personal health condition is a very likely predictor of this rare event.

 

You would probably do better to not take a vaccine until you are sure. Try to aim for a BMI of 22 and take regular moderate exercise.  Make sure you really are healthy, since it is a most overused term.  Can you run a mile regularly for instance?

 

(Yes the AZ vaccine is linked to a rare condition called VITT, which is less likely in your case as you are male, assumed to be healthy, and not so young, I guess. )

 

A decision to delay the vaccine also depends on the prevalence of the virus.  However, you should keep a low profile as you are doing now.

 

For clarity,  mRNA vaccines do not suffer the same VITT blood-clotting issues now known to be due to some adendovirus vaccines namely AZ and J&J. Reference: https://www.uptodate.com/contents/covid-19-vaccine-induced-immune-thrombotic-thrombocytopenia-vitt

 

"VITT has not been reported after mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines such as the BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) or the mRNA-1273 (Moderna) vaccines despite administration and safety data collection from hundreds of millions of recipients. " (emphasis from article)

 

[4MyEgo]

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

'Over 285 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through May 24, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 4,863 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.'

 

So presumably, using the same logic, you won't be getting the Pfizer or Moderna?

 

Pretty much a sticking point at the moment, having just refused the AZ jab, suffice to say when I look at how many people have died to date in Thailand in the last 18 months, that's 0.73% and the survival rate being 99.27%, I am asking myself does it actually warrant me to have a vaccination, noting that would be the 3rd one this year for viruses, naming the Influenza and Pneumonia jabs previously.

 

I mean seriously this is not such a life threatening virus unless your over 65+ with underlying conditions, so I will gladly let everyone else get their jabs, because that is their choice and mine is to say no for the time being, and if the creator sends me to hell, then so be it....lol

[Dart12]

14 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

 

'Over 285 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through May 24, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 4,863 reports of death (0.0017%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.'

 

So presumably, using the same logic, you won't be getting the Pfizer or Moderna?

Those same numbers would mean it wouldn't pass the FDA safety test if not given emergency pass, and the drug would be canceled.

Fen Phen had far fewer fatalities and issues in a far longer period and was taken back off the market because of the enormous lawsuits...which was probably the only reason they pulled it.

Now, since they've avoided any liability, fat chance they kill their cash cows.
 

[wadman]

29 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

taking the vaccine is for the good of the world guys.  Just not the way they are selling it or the way you want it to be.  

 

It'sa bit like paying income tax, it doesn't affect everyone in the same way.  If you are very poor, you actually get a rebate (in a western country).  Middle class, you get screwed.  The rich will worm their way out of paying their fair share somehow.

 

If you are in a (very) high risk group, I can see you running to the nearest vaccine, yes.

[friendofthai]

It is a very sad story. This lady believed that the western vaccine would protect her.  If only she had chosen a vaccine from China!

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

It is a very sad story. This lady believed that the western vaccine would protect her.  If only she had chosen a vaccine from China!

 

The covid19 vaccines can only protect you from covid19, and not from any underlying conditions one may suffer.

[friendofthai]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

The covid19 vaccines can only protect you from covid19, and not from any underlying conditions one may suffer.

According to the table published by the Hungarian government, Chinese and Russian vaccines are much safer than the western ones. The western "credible news source" was so angry with this as to use words like "Hungary’s Kremlin-friendly government", "controversial table" : 
https://www.wsj.com/articles/sputnik-campaign-fails-to-launch-in-hungary-11619790776

[rabas]

28 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

It is a very sad story. This lady believed that the western vaccine would protect her.  If only she had chosen a vaccine from China!

Yes it is sad, more so for Sinovac. So far at least two women have died from problems after receiving  Sinovac vaccines, more have had serious reactions.

 

A woman in Hat Yai died on May 14 from blood clots in the lungs. (BP story but you can google). A friend, also vaccinated, had similar symptoms but lived.

 

Another young woman died shortly after her second dose of Sinovac on April 27, after experiencing severe headaches. 

 

There was also a cluster of 7 people who suffered facial paralysis after receiving the same batch of Sinovac, but that could have been a manufacturing or quality control problem.

 

But still, the numbers of serious problems are very low for all vaccines.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by rabas

[GrandPapillon]

10 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Lol they were clambering to get it. It’s all politically motivated from buthurt Europeans (evidenced by trollish posts like yours) whose governments were slow and caused the death of thousands then had to be rescued by the yanks,,, AGAIN. 

ah I love the smell of desperately defensive Brexiteers in the morning ????

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I mean seriously this is not such a life threatening virus unless your over 65+ with underlying conditions, so I will gladly let everyone else get their jabs, because that is their choice and mine is to say no for the time being, and if the creator sends me to hell, then so be it....lol

Saying no would make you a danger to the general population and an anti-vaxxer nutjob.

I prefer to be viewed as a polite humanitarian, and say 'after you, I can wait until everyone else is safe'.

 

The Thai way ........ agree to everything ........ wait forever to do anything.

Edited June 10, 2021 by BritManToo

[mommysboy]

17 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

According to the table published by the Hungarian government, Chinese and Russian vaccines are much safer than the western ones. The western "credible news source" was so angry with this as to use words like "Hungary’s Kremlin-friendly government", "controversial table" : 
https://www.wsj.com/articles/sputnik-campaign-fails-to-launch-in-hungary-11619790776

 

According to an article published in the newspaper we can't quote, there have been 28 deaths after vaccination in Thailand that needed investigation. Nearly all jabs until recently in Thailand have been Sinovac.

 

Quite simply, there is no safe vaccine the way many people want it.

 

 

[wadman]

37 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

According to an article published in the newspaper we can't quote, there have been 28 deaths after vaccination in Thailand that needed investigation. Nearly all jabs until recently in Thailand have been Sinovac.

 

Quite simply, there is no safe vaccine the way many people want it.

 

 

 

Well, I have been told here that thousands of people in Thailand die every day statistically.  So the chances that these 28 deaths are due to the vaccine is infintely small.  So small, that you can pretty much think of these deaths as NOT being caused by the vaccine.  So I have been told here...

[patman30]

obviously just a mere coincidence
????‍♂️

[EricTh]

It has been reported in Bangkokpost today that since 1 March 2012, 28 deaths have occurred after vaccination so this isn't the first one.

 

28 cases out of 6.7 million doses administered of both Sinovac and AZ is quite low.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by EricTh

[EricTh]

5 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

According to an article published in the newspaper we can't quote, there have been 28 deaths after vaccination in Thailand that needed investigation. Nearly all jabs until recently in Thailand have been Sinovac.

 

Quite simply, there is no safe vaccine the way many people want it.

 

 

 

Don't put out misinformation. It is both Sinovac and AZ. I have read the article.

 

The Thai abbot and this 46 year old woman died of AZ and not Sinovac.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by EricTh

[jak2002003]

10 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

I will take my chance being vaccinated and dying of old age than dying prematurely and alone bearing all the suffering and hooked to a ventilator with no love ones around. I guess to each his own. I wish you best of health not vaccinated.  

Sorry to hear you are alone with no loved ones around you. 

 

You do know you will probably end up dying in a hospital bed hooked up to all sorts of things in the end. Most people do. Maybe it won't be the Covid 19 you seen to think is so deadly...there are equally nastier diseases, and many worse, that people die of. It's against all probability you or anyone else will 'die of old age" in our sleep with no suffering. 

 

 

[jak2002003]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Saying no would make you a danger to the general population and an anti-vaxxer nutjob.

I prefer to be viewed as a polite humanitarian, and say 'after you, I can wait until everyone else is safe'.

 

The Thai way ........ agree to everything ........ wait forever to do anything.

How on earth is not having the vaccine making some a danger to the general population?  If people have the vaccine they are safe!

 

 

[richard_smith237]

6 hours ago, rabas said:

Yes it is sad, more so for Sinovac. So far at least two women have died from problems after receiving  Sinovac vaccines, more have had serious reactions.

 

A woman in Hat Yai died on May 14 from blood clots in the lungs. (BP story but you can google). A friend, also vaccinated, had similar symptoms but lived.

 

1 in 1000 people suffer a Thrombotic event each year (DVT / Pulmonary Embolism) the lady you describe had a Pulmonary Embolism, they are not uncommon. She now has an additional 40% chance of having another PE within the next 10 years. 

 

 

6 hours ago, rabas said:

Another young woman died shortly after her second dose of Sinovac on April 27, after experiencing severe headaches. 

 

And many more will - when the statistical certainty that 1540 people will die each day in Thailand (based on existing mortality figures) the probability some of those will die within a short time frame of taking the vaccines approaches a certainty. 

 

6 hours ago, rabas said:

There was also a cluster of 7 people who suffered facial paralysis after receiving the same batch of Sinovac, but that could have been a manufacturing or quality control problem.

 

 

This one is quite damning....   as 7 people suffered the same symptoms after receiving the same batch of Sinovac. 

 

There is also Bells Palsy, which will impact between 1 and 4 people per 10,000 people per year, or looking at it another way, 1.5% of people will be impacted by Bell’s Palsy in their lifetime - when millions of people are taking the vaccine, some will suffer Bell’s Palsy, the timing will be purely coincidental. 

 

(I’m not suggesting this is the case with the facial paralysis issues experienced by 7 after taking the same does of Sinovac vaccine).

 

6 hours ago, rabas said:

But still, the numbers of serious problems are very low for all vaccines.

 

100% agree.....   The statistics are clear that the benefits of taking any Covid-19 vaccine (WHO approved for emergency use) by far out weigh the risks of contracting Covid-19 even for those who believe if no one was vaccinated we would all still be OK !!!! 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

32 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

How on earth is not having the vaccine making some a danger to the general population?  If people have the vaccine they are safe!

 

 

I’m struggling to understand how this still needs explaining !!!.....    

 

For medical reasons, not everyone will be able to take the vaccines - these people remain at risk. 

The vaccines will not work, for everyone who takes the vaccine - these people are still at risk.

The effectiveness of the vaccines will wear off after time, people will need boosters, some will forget, these people are at risk. 

 

This is where the ‘herd immunity' comes into it. When a community is vaccinated, the spread of Covid-19 throughout that community is significantly impeded. It is possible for ’some’ people to remain contagious, but as a result of the vaccine their viral load is lower, they are contagious for a shorter period of time, they will spread the virus to a lesser degree. In a community which is vaccinated, a contagious person would spread the virus to someone who is not impacted, has lower viral load, is either not contagious at all, or contagious for a shorter period of time.. and so on and so on...

 

In a community which is vaccinated beyond ‘critical mass’ - ultimately the R number is significantly cut that while there always remains a risk of spread, such would be significantly reduced ultimately affording safety for those described at the beginning of my spiel...i.e. those unable to take vaccines for medical reasons. 

 

Thus: Not taking the vaccine on an individual basis does not present significant danger to a vaccinated population. However, if enough people don’t take a vaccine in aggregate they present danger to the community on a whole or more specifically to those who are unable to be vaccinated for genuine reasons. 

 

Thus not getting vaccinated is selfish... It's outlining that you don’t give a flying fig about the community in which you live and don’t care to play your part to protect those who can’t be vaccinated.

 

 

A final point: IF major proportions of a community are not vaccinated, SARS-CoV-2 can continue to spread and continue to evolve into variants of greater concern, the risk being that with sufficient antigenic drift a variant could evolve against which our existing vaccine models are ineffective and the global community is forced to lock down once again....  and thats not the worst case scenario !!!! - fear mongering???? maybe, but the reality and potential exists and right now the vaccines exist....   The only question left to ask is why wouldn’t a person want to be vaccinated and the answers to that question are wholly unconvincing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WhatsNext]

11 hours ago, wadman said:

Which one is the bigger risk: risking covid for those extra 3 months, or the risk of AZ over Moderna? I'll go with Moderna. 

 

 

3 months, 2300 cases per day, 69m people : 1 in 333, below 60 risk of dying 1 in 500. 3 months risk of death due to covid-19 : 1 in 166.500

 

AZ risk of dangerous low count and blood cloth about 1 in 80.000. i would wait.

 

Personally I will wait just like you with a chance that we don't need the vaccine at all due to 1) herd immunity 2) the virus going away or getting even less dangerous 3) or needing another vaccine due to dangerous mutations

[Liebemein]

10 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Pretty much a sticking point at the moment, having just refused the AZ jab, suffice to say when I look at how many people have died to date in Thailand in the last 18 months, that's 0.73% and the survival rate being 99.27%, I am asking myself does it actually warrant me to have a vaccination, noting that would be the 3rd one this year for viruses, naming the Influenza and Pneumonia jabs previously.

 

I mean seriously this is not such a life threatening virus unless your over 65+ with underlying conditions, so I will gladly let everyone else get their jabs, because that is their choice and mine is to say no for the time being, and if the creator sends me to hell, then so be it....lol

Unfortunately I am forced from a company to get it. I don't want it yet. What should I do? Anywhere in this world not forcing human being?

[Bluedan]

12 hours ago, DavisH said:

Excess mortality as startly evident after the 2 big waves in the UK. 

yes it is an above average year for deaths....if I read correctly over the last 5 years. 

 

I heard Dr John Lee say that it ranks 8th in the last 30 years for the UK. Happy to be corrected on this.

 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Liebemein said:

Unfortunately I am forced from a company to get it. I don't want it yet. What should I do? Anywhere in this world not forcing human being?

 

You are not being forced by a company to get the vaccine. You are being encouraged by a company to aid in protecting those in your working environment by taking the vaccine. 

 

I’m quite sure you are free not to take the vaccine and seek employment elsewhere. No one is forcing you.

 

You are also encouraged to turn up on time etc behave in a certain manner, dress and behave appropriately etc... no one is forcing you to do that either. 

 

It's all a matter of outlook.

 

In the future, you will be ‘encouraged by airlines’ to participate in measures to ensure the safety of all other passengers and crew by being vaccinated. You are free not to travel...

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Bluedan said:

12 hours ago, DavisH said:

Excess mortality as startly evident after the 2 big waves in the UK. 

yes it is an above average year for deaths....if I read correctly over the last 5 years. 

 

I heard Dr John Lee say that it ranks 8th in the last 30 years for the UK. Happy to be corrected on this.

 

That is correct....  For the England and Wales alone there were 13.9% more deaths in 2020 than the average of 2015-2019 (approx 75,000 more people died than had in previous years). 

 

In 2021, up until may, the cumulative deaths are still up 13% compared to years 2015-2019 but down 9% on 2020. 

 

[Ref: Office of National Statistics] 

 

As more people become vaccinated in the ‘weekly deaths’ numbers should fall back into equilibrium with previous years and perhaps fall into deficit as some of those excess deaths were people who were going to due the following year (statistically) but were taken early by Covid-19.

 

 

[Bluedan]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

That is correct....  For the England and Wales alone there were 13.9% more deaths in 2020 than the average of 2015-2019 (approx 75,000 more people died than had in previous years). 

 

In 2021, up until may, the cumulative deaths are still up 13% compared to years 2015-2019 but down 9% on 2020. 

 

[Ref: Office of National Statistics] 

 

As more people become vaccinated in the ‘weekly deaths’ numbers should fall back into equilibrium with previous years and perhaps fall into deficit as some of those excess deaths were people who were going to due the following year (statistically) but were taken early by Covid-19.

 

 

yes its often coldly referred to as the "dry tinder" effect where many elderly and vulnerable people had made it through several milder flu seasons and were sitting ducks for a new respiratory virus 

[Bangkokazy]

Her death from old age has nothing to do with C-17

Are you fat and go and you die ... Does not mean that shoes kill you.

[Liebemein]

45 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

You are not being forced by a company to get the vaccine. You are being encouraged by a company to aid in protecting those in your working environment by taking the vaccine. 

 

I’m quite sure you are free not to take the vaccine and seek employment elsewhere. No one is forcing you.

 

You are also encouraged to turn up on time etc behave in a certain manner, dress and behave appropriately etc... no one is forcing you to do that either. 

 

It's all a matter of outlook.

 

In the future, you will be ‘encouraged by airlines’ to participate in measures to ensure the safety of all other passengers and crew by being vaccinated. You are free not to travel...

 

 

 

 

It seems like a traditional working environment that everyone needs to get vaccine, not even wait for the result. I want to be in a control group, not in an experimental group at this moment, I'm waiting for the result and conclusion maybe take years.

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, EricTh said:

It has been reported in Bangkokpost today that since 1 March 2012, 28 deaths have occurred after vaccination so this isn't the first one.

 

28 cases out of 6.7 million doses administered of both Sinovac and AZ is quite low.

 

 

Stats:

 

1504 Thais die each day (7.884 per 1000 of population per year)

Thai population is 69.63 million.

0.00216% of the Thai population dies each day

 

5th - 8th June it is reported that 818,085 people received vaccines.

Which equates to 1.175 % of the population received vaccines (between 5th - 8th June).

 

Proportionately (numbers alone) 0.00216% of 818,085 people is 17.7.

 

Statistically between 5th - 8th June 17.7 people who received a vaccine also died. 

 

 

Of course statistics bastardises the reality, not exactly 0.00216% of the 818,085 people over those 4 days will have died, perhaps 0.003% of the other 68,818,915 people would die and the balance was offset (unequal distribution etc), or perhaps Thailand would have significantly less deaths than average etc...  so the stats can’t always tell the true answer. 

 

There are also many many other arguable factors, but the numbers present the ‘ball park figures’ that people continue to die of natural causes and some of them die within days of receiving the vaccine.

 

 

Of course, every death without an obvious cause needs to be investigated... but if, as it was reported, 28 people have died within a few days of taking the vaccine, that number falls well within the normal mortality rate, well below in fact. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Of course, every death without an obvious cause needs to be investigated... but if, as it was reported, 28 people have died within a few days of taking the vaccine, that number falls well within the normal mortality rate, well below in fact. 

 

As if on cue....