1 hour ago, DBath said:

Okay, so I may have embellished a little, and while I’m not really sorry if it bothered you, perhaps you will one day wake up and realize some of what I said was in jest. I get it though, you just don’t share a sense of my kind of humor. Would it bother you less if I said I have balls the size of boulders? I know I’m neither the toughest or the smartest guy in the room, but I have been riding motorcycles since I was 8 years old (back when you were about my grandpa’s age) and have never been in an accident. I attribute this to a combination of luck, skill and lots of practice. I’m sure you and I will be friends now. ????????????

Were we not friends before?????

 

 

5 hours ago, DBath said:

And what facts would those be, exactly? I'd love to see your 'facts' regarding bump and spill vs. accidents that occur with people drag racing thru the city with reckless abandoned. IMO, one would have to be a 'moron' - to loosely use your terminology - to not be able to see with your own eyes how different it is to ride in a place like Bangkok vs. Hua Hin. I don't need to see any stats to know the difference, smart boy.

 

You stated as fact: [Your chances of dying on a motorcycle, while riding in BKK - with a helmet, are way higher than me riding one without a helmet here in Hua Hin]

 

I have not stated  fact, I stated a ’suspicion’ .... [I suspect any accident is more likely to be a bump’n’spill rather than a impact at speed.]

 

 

You can’t possibly know that riding in Bangkok is statistically more dangerous per-km ridden than in Hua Hin... You have guessed and stated your guess as fact... >>> you’ve simply made S#!t up 

 

 

I suspect that per KM ridden there could be a higher risk of death in area’s where the traffic speed is greater - but I do not know this, which is why I would like to see some genuine statistics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I disagree.

If there is a situation which has only cons and a person ignores all that then that is stupid.

But if a situation has pros and cons then it's up to each individual what they prefer.

 

We can all agree that wearing a helmet on a motorcycle makes riding safer. 

We can also agree that riding a bicycle with helmet is safer.

Further we can agree that it would be safer for any pedestrian to cross streets only with helmet and maybe also body armor.

 

The ‘pedestrian argument’ is a somewhat daft ’straw-man argument’... You could also argue that we are taking a risk each time we go out in a car and thus should avoid such or wear helmets etc.

 

There is a sensible line in the sand beyond which it would be sensible to wear a helmet, that line is anything which you can fall off and travels faster than you can run.

 

Thus: when people are riding things which travel a lot faster than they can run, if that person falls off the risk of banging their head is greatly increased because it's impossible to stay on their feet. 

 

 

Pedestrians getting hit because they were not looking where they are going is a little different. 

Yes, there are freak incidents, but we are discussing common sense here.

 

 

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Now why is it that especially pedestrians and many bicycle riders don't wear helmets and don't wear protective clothes? Because it's uncomfortable, especially in hot climate. People know there is a risk. But they think the risk is not high enough for them to use helmets and protective clothes.

 

Most cyclists do wear helmets. i.e. people are not allowed on the skyline without a helmet. My son is not allowed to ride his bike without a helmet. 

 

Why do pedestrians not wear a helmet - because its unnecessary regardless of comfort and climate. 

 

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And with motorcycle riders the principle is the same. Sure we can die if we don't wear a helmet. Just like bicycle riders or pedestrians can die if a truck hits them.

It's a question of personal choice and what kind of risks we are willing to take.

 

In countries where not wearing a motorcycle helmet is not the law, I agree its a personal choice. 

 

I do not agree that the consequences impact ‘only’ the rider not wearing the helmet - this has already been strongly debated on this thread. 

 

I also believe not wearing a helmet, especially on Thailands roads is a stupid choice. 

 

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And not just in traffic. Some people smoke, some people eat constantly too much, some people are constantly in stress situations at work. All this is risk. But people do it all the time. Are they all stupid?

 

Agreed, there are risks everywhere, food, stress, smoking etc....  But once again you have brought in a strawman argument... making unintelligent and stupid choices in other facets of life does not make riding without a helmet any less of a stupid choice.

 

I ride a motorcycle...  it could be argued that riding itself is a stupid choice and I would agree, especially when there are perfectly reasonable alternatives, but there is an element of necessity and convenience which can be balanced. 

 

Smoking, even smokers know that smoking is a stupid choice, they enjoy it, they are addicted, many wish they never started, but none ever say smoking is a smart choice. 

 

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Over to you.

P.S.: 99% of the time I wear a helmet - it's my choice. 

 

So why do you wear a helmet? - because you are not stupid !!!!

 

And if, on that 1% of times you don’t, when you nip down to the 7-11 etc, if you were to fall and bang your head I imagine you would be very upset with your self for not making the smart choice. 

 

22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

"I suspect that per KM ridden there could be a higher risk of death in area’s where the traffic speed is greater..."

 

Yeah, right. And I suspect there is more speed on the streets of BKK than HH.

 

22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

"...but I do not know this, which is why I would like to see some genuine statistics."

 

I would too, so why don't you see if you can dig some up? I suspect you won't like what you find...

About the speed in Bangkok. Often it is slow, but it is obviously also not difficult to accelerate to over 100km/h for mostly only a few seconds or maybe a minute at a time.

Here is a picture from my bike which shows an average speed of 25km/h - over 7000km. 

Maybe 2,000 of those km were roads outside the city with maybe an average of 80km/h (my guess).

That means in reality my average speed in the middle of Bangkok is probably more like 20km/h. And the reason is not that I don't try to ride faster when it's possible. With in average 20km/h the rate of accidents with bad head injuries it probably not so high (my guess).

I don't write this to suggest people should not use helmets. They should use helmet! But to put things into perspective.

 

Real stupidity is riding one in the first place. It's just a siren's song to an early death.

 

Wife used to scooter to work for years in BKK which was only 4km. Many close calls. Finally, older and wiser first stopped riding it and then she sold it. No Darwin Award for her.

 

47 minutes ago, DBath said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

"I suspect that per KM ridden there could be a higher risk of death in area’s where the traffic speed is greater..."

 

Yeah, right. And I suspect there is more speed on the streets of BKK than HH.

 

But you don’t know because you don’t ride in Bangkok !

 

There are some, but not many normal roads / streets in Bangkok where I can get up to any decent speed safely for more than a few 100m. 

 

Quote

Quote

 

"...but I do not know this, which is why I would like to see some genuine statistics."

 

I would too, so why don't you see if you can dig some up? I suspect you won't like what you find...

 

Why would I care what I find...   facts are facts and what ever facts I find none will encourage not to wear a helmet... None will encourage me not to ride in Bangkok, I’ve already evaluated that risk. 

 

And none will encourage me to ride in Hua Hin because I have a car and driving there is a lot more pleasant than riding there !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Going to finish this bottle of whiskey. Do a couple rails. Twist a couple spliffs

Slide into my flip flops, no shirt, put on my baseball hat - backwards of course.

Off to town I go, at excessive speed, weaving around the traffic, ignoring stop signs and red lights.

While keeping my fone on and ready to go.

Oh yea, almost forgot - my future so bright I gotta wear shades

????

You forgot about the clean pair of underpants in case you have an accident and have to go to hospital. 

5 hours ago, Joinaman said:

I NEVER ride without a helmet, even when they were not mandatory in the UK, always wore one 

I had a letter from the government saying that I was exempt from wearing a helmet but still wore one.

 

And no, I didn't change my religion to one that requires wearing a turban.

????

10 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Now why is it that especially pedestrians and many bicycle riders don't wear helmets and don't wear protective clothes? Because it's uncomfortable, especially in hot climate. People know there is a risk. But they think the risk is not high enough for them to use helmets and protective clothes.

And with motorcycle riders the principle is the same. Sure we can die if we don't wear a helmet. Just like bicycle riders or pedestrians can die if a truck hits them.

It's a question of personal choice and what kind of risks we are willing to take.

 

Good points, and if you really want to be safe inside a car , you should wear a helmet also in the car, because many passengers and drivers die of head injuries.  So you're not really safe anywhere.   My chances of dying in an accident increase by the hundreds once I arrive Thailand.   

Wearing a helmet might prevent me from dying , but even more importantly is it to have your eyes open at all times out in the traffic, drive safe wherever you are , slow down and avoid the aggressive drivers, and you will live for another day, wearing a helmet or not. 

 

6 hours ago, kynikoi said:

Real stupidity is riding one in the first place. It's just a siren's song to an early death.

 

Wife used to scooter to work for years in BKK which was only 4km. Many close calls. Finally, older and wiser first stopped riding it and then she sold it. No Darwin Award for her.

So what does she do now? Walk? Or ride with a motorcycle taxi? Or use a car?

Motorcycles are perfect for distances like 4km.

7 hours ago, bobandyson said:

????

You forgot about the clean pair of underpants in case you have an accident and have to go to hospital. 

Yes. That's where the brains are.????

16 hours ago, DBath said:

how different it is to ride in a place like Bangkok vs. Hua Hin.

Lots of older Swedes now waxing lyrical about driving on the left?

10 hours ago, kynikoi said:

Real stupidity is riding one in the first place. It's just a siren's song to an early death.

You don't ride - but those who do are stupid.

You make a statement like this and it leaves no doubt who is and who is not.

On 6/17/2021 at 7:06 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

I always wear my seat belt... there really is no reason not it, its not an inconvenience at all. 

 

I understand ‘why’ people would want to ride without a helmet, its just more pleasant. But, I can’t understand why people do ride without a helmet (if that makes any sense). 

 

As very bare minimum ALL times - Helmet, gloves, trainers (even when popping 700m down the road to the 7-11).

 

I may or may not wear the full face helmet. 

 

IF hitting a major road..... ALWAYS - Full Face Helmet, Gloves (with skid guard), Motorcycle boots (causal sort), riding pants (with knee and hip impact projection)...   

 

If not going too far I don’t use the jacket. 

 

If going further than 20mins away, I’ll also use the Jacket with back protection. 

 

 

 

I like riding without the gear, but also, I don’t like riding without the gear !!! 

 

 

 

When it comes to seat belts I do likewise instinctively/habitually . My Thai wife has also adopted the  habit and not long ago commented that she feels sort of undressed if she does not. Sadly she is not as diligent when it comes to wearing a helmet on her scooter ! Win some, lose  some !

Just an observation..........Most of the Thais and farang that ride big cc motorbikes in general wear helmets , and more than shorts, vest and flip flops when they are out riding. It's the oiks on the small ( and sometimes fast) motorbikes/scooters that are the biggest culprits. Just my view. 

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

So what does she do now? Walk? Or ride with a motorcycle taxi? Or use a car?

Motorcycles are perfect for distances like 4km.

MRT

 

4km down Ratchadapisek

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

You don't ride - but those who do are stupid.

You make a statement like this and it leaves no doubt who is and who is not.

 

It's not so much they are stupid it's the act of riding. If the rider doesn't kill themselves the drivers around them surely will.

 

I must have known three or four people with serious injuries and just as many that have died on motorcycles.

17 minutes ago, kynikoi said:

I must have known three or four people with serious injuries and just as many that have died on motorcycles.

And ?

You would call people stupid because they walk or ride a bicycle and get hit by a car ?

I have known many who have been injured, myself included, for myriad reasons.

Those who have died - ditto

You don't want to ride - fine

Leave the choice for those who do want to ride to them, and keep your insults to yourself.

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

And ?

You would call people stupid because they walk or ride a bicycle and get hit by a car ?

I have known many who have been injured, myself included, for myriad reasons.

Those who have died - ditto

You don't want to ride - fine

Leave the choice for those who do want to ride to them, and keep your insults to yourself.

The name calling seems to be a common theme on this thread for the non riders/non helmet wearers. 

Certain types of people like to control what others do and even how they believe they should think in line with what they believe to be correct. Control freaks. 

Failure to succeed in doing that automatically defaults to name calling. 
 

Maybe why many end up in Thailand where it will be easier to control their missus than back home. 

 

 

1 hour ago, kynikoi said:

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

So what does she do now? Walk? Or ride with a motorcycle taxi? Or use a car?

Motorcycles are perfect for distances like 4km.

MRT

 

4km down Ratchadapisek

Door to door?

Or does she take a motorcycle taxi at the start and/or finish of that trip?

 

It's obviously not my business. But it seems almost all Thais and many foreigners use motorcycle taxis in the sois. And mostly without helmet.

Personally I have no problem with that. But if the goal is to avoid high risk motorcycle riding then she doesn't really gain much.

 

Some time ago I decided that the only fast way through town are motorcycles (maybe combined with BTS or MRT). That leaves the options of riding yourself or using a motorcycle taxi.

For myself I decided I ride myself. Then it's the way I ride and not up to the driver of the day and his mood of that day.

 

 

17 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Soo, you would rather these old folks get behind the wheel of a car?

 

not at all ! I am happy that they die on their own on bikes, but I am just telling the obvious that ALL rides cannot accept.

A dog cross the road without notice, they are dead. The simple truth, they like it or not.

 

 

16 hours ago, Joinaman said:

went through 3 helmets back in the UK, all 3 cracked and damaged due to hitting objects, just lucky to escape any major injury

Had one truck run red light here, so T boned him, luckily at low speed. But still broke both the 2 visors hitting his door pillar. Again, head ache, sprained wrist, but ok

I NEVER ride without a helmet, even when they were not mandatory in the UK, always wore one 

But as they say, up to you

 

 

not mandatory in the UK ?!

 

 

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

You would call people stupid because they walk or ride a bicycle and get hit by a car ?

I agree that is the most important point here.

We all travel from A to B. That often includes dangerous streets which we can't avoid.

We can decide if we are on those streets as pedestrians, on a motorcycle or maybe in a car. But we will be on those street. And there is always a risk that something happens.

I am often in Asoke and I am pretty sure the majority of bikes, cars and trucks ignores the red lights of zebra crossings. The risk is high. And the next truck (with so called brake failure) is near.

On 6/20/2021 at 5:15 PM, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

every such death or serious injury leaves multiple dependent / loved ones distressed / poor.....

its not just about you

 

Poor?  I've been married to the same Thai lady for over 30 years and my wife owns 4 houses, two "lock-up" stalls in a clothes market along with numerous pieces of land, all paid for by me. If I were to die tomorrow she would be anything but poor.

 

Love ones distressed?  We all have to die sometime, I'm sure my grown-up children could handle it.

 

Its not just about you?  I've spent the best part of fourty years working to provide for my family, its about time they learnt to look after themselves and that I started to do the things that make me happy.

 

"It's my life
And it's now or never
I ain't gonna live forever
I just want to live while I'm alive"

 

Bon Jovi

you know what people who don't wear helmets say??

 

nothing.

 

dead.

 

lying in the dirt acting like the most dangerous place to ride isn't dangerous to them.

 

crocodile tears.  

5 minutes ago, thvima said:

 

not at all ! I am happy that they die on their own on bikes, but I am just telling the obvious that ALL rides cannot accept.

A dog cross the road without notice, they are dead. The simple truth, they like it or not.

With the weight of my bike and me combined I am pretty sure the dog has the bigger risk.

A personal attack has been removed

 

3 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

you know what people who don't wear helmets say??

 

nothing.

 

dead.

 

lying in the dirt acting like the most dangerous place to ride isn't dangerous to them.

 

crocodile tears.  

Maybe this will help some of the people here to understand. But I wouldn't bet on it.

 

17 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Door to door?

Or does she take a motorcycle taxi at the start and/or finish of that trip?

 

It's obviously not my business. But it seems almost all Thais and many foreigners use motorcycle taxis in the sois. And mostly without helmet.

Personally I have no problem with that. But if the goal is to avoid high risk motorcycle riding then she doesn't really gain much.

 

Some time ago I decided that the only fast way through town are motorcycles (maybe combined with BTS or MRT). That leaves the options of riding yourself or using a motorcycle taxi.

For myself I decided I ride myself. Then it's the way I ride and not up to the driver of the day and his mood of that day.

 

 

 

I ask her to walk. It's good exercise as well. I walk a lot. If it's hot she'll take a moto.

 

Yes, fastest way thru town is MRT BTS.