Anutin admits document, which shows officials questioning Sinovac effectiveness, is real

[webfact]

 

By Erich Parpart and Cod Satrusayang

 

A leaked document that revealed that government officials wanted to downplay the ineffectiveness of the Sinovac vaccine is real, the public health minister told reporters on Monday.

 

The document, which shows some of the minutes of a June 30 meeting at the public health ministry, reveals a debate between public health officials and academics whether or not to give Pfizer vaccines to medical workers who have already been vaccinated with Sinovac.

 

According to the document, one official said that making that decision would be admitting Sinovac was not effective.

 

Full story: https://www.thaienquirer.com/29377/anutin-admits-document-which-shows-health-officials-questioning-sinovac-effectiveness-is-real/

 

-- © Copyright Thai Enquirer 2021-07-05

[mtls2005]

from the article...

 

Public Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul told reporters on Monday that the leaked document was real but sought to downplay its importance.

 

“It is only an opinion,” said “This is why there is a committee and why one person is not deciding everything.”

 

My opinion is the minister is wholly unqualified for his position.

 

 

 

Further on, an interesting nugget:

 

The US is donating 1.5 million doses of Pfizer vaccines which expected to arrive before the 20 million doses that the government ordered that are due in Thailand by the end of the year.

 

 

Hmm. Perhaps some for US? #drool

 

I can't find any other reference to this, maybe it's in the 'real' "document" ?

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by mtls2005

[ryane66]

Them saving face is more important than medical workers well being.

Edited July 5, 2021 by ryane66

[chalawaan]

Get me a cup of tea and an aspirin, I need to lie down, someone uttered a truth in the gleaming halls of ignominy and infamy!

[sammieuk1]

The stuff is not even fit for generals 

[RichardColeman]

China, covid and vaccines, is like a tyre dealer sticking a knife in your brand new tyre and then continuously  flogging you a threadbare ones. They might work for you, they might not, but we still own your cash now.

 

 

[placeholder]

42 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

The Chinese manufactured Covid19 in a lab. 

Sinovac should be the best vaccine. 

What do you mean by a lab? Laboratories are for experiments, not manufacturing. All of these vaccines were created in labs. But now they're prepared in the appropriate manufacturing facilities. Like virtually all other medications.

[poskat]

"According to the document, one person said that making that decision would be admitting Sinovac was not effective. "

 

this makes sense since it is common knowledge that avoiding a fact invalidates that fact

[internationalism]

similar story, but no so much widely reported, is that phuket governor decided to allow domestic tourists to visit with AZ, but not with sinovac.

But reported leak is more significant - it shows sinister nature of this government's attitude to health care workers. They 

Just don't care about the future of health system, just gains at political fight at upcoming general election.

If medics go infected or even were in touch with infected patients or co-workers, they have to quarantine or self-isolate.

And thinking of 15% of medical personel in Italy during the devastating first wave, which perished. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by internationalism

[Somtamnication]

LOL. The truth cometh out, y'all!

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

The Chinese manufactured Covid19 in a lab. 

Sinovac should be the best vaccine. 

I am not one for conspiracy theories, in fact they annoy the hell out of me, but what are the chances of a new corona virus suddenly popping into existence in a wet market in the same city where biological lab's are actually experimenting on that  virus..................it really is a no brainer!!!!!

[placeholder]

35 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I am not one for conspiracy theories, in fact they annoy the hell out of me, but what are the chances of a new corona virus suddenly popping into existence in a wet market in the same city where biological lab's are actually experimenting on that  virus..................it really is a no brainer!!!!!

You got proof that the were "actually experimenting on that virus." If not, you're engaged in partially circular reasoning. And since you're opinion is hardly the consensus of virologists and epidemiologist. what is it that make you think it's a "no brainer"? 

[John Drake]

The quality of Sinovac clearly doesn't match that of Moderna and Pfizer. I don't think it is far behind AZ, however. And one thing I believe is true is that it is foolish to turn down what is available to you with Covid going full blast now. People can stick their noses in the air, refuse Sinovac, and be smug with their "registration" for Moderna in five or six months. Between now and then many will get infected with Covid. Some will die.

[mtls2005]

4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

and be smug with their "registration" for Moderna in five or six months.

 

What other choice do most of us have? Be "smug" - what a silly thing to imply, no one is smug - and wait for a non-existent AZ or Sino-xxx vaccine?

 

Yes, I will stipulate that some foreigners have gotten one AZ shot, or even two Sinovac shots, through some set of circumstances (luck, local hospital, mor prom, pink card, socsec, etc.).

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

 

39 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I am not one for conspiracy theories, in fact they annoy the hell out of me, but what are the chances of a new corona virus suddenly popping into existence in a wet market in the same city where biological lab's are actually experimenting on that  virus..................it really is a no brainer!!!!!

Expand  

You got proof that the were "actually experimenting on that virus." If not, you're engaged in partially circular reasoning. And since you're opinion is hardly the consensus of virologists and epidemiologist. what is it that make you think it's a "no brainer"? 

 

A little over simplification coming:

 

Its known that studies on Coronaviruses where undergoing at the Wuhan institute of virology. The Chinese have refused to reveal the research papers. 

It is known that bio-containment level 2 was being used (same a a dentist!).

 

It is known that some of the funding for this was from US Grants to US companies outsourcing (wrong word really) collaborating with this labs.

 

It us know that viruses don’t escape labs (small pox escaped a lab in the uk for example, twice).

 

The ‘escaping from a lab’ theory is a strong one but can never be proven unequivocally.

[Surelynot]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You got proof that the were "actually experimenting on that virus." If not, you're engaged in partially circular reasoning. And since you're opinion is hardly the consensus of virologists and epidemiologist. what is it that make you think it's a "no brainer"? 

Amendment......"studying" that virus

[riclag]

Its a whole new ball game when it comes to  the Variant  that's taking hold of this and every other country in the world !

These controversial vaccines like  Sinovacc have been suspect in protecting people, especially with the new variant !

 

I must confess I know little about a third shot of the Sinovacc and its effectiveness, in catching the virus variant ,that said, many reports about the masses having very little confidence in this particular S vacc, as opposed to the American ones !

 

I think a booster shot of the P vacc would boost confidence in the people and govt campaign to get the masses vaccinated also it would protect the first line medical personnel immediately.

 

[placeholder]

Just now, Surelynot said:

Amendment......"studying" that virus

They were studying the Covid-19 virus? Really? Got a link for that?

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, mtls2005 said:

 

What other choice do most of us have? Be "smug" - what a silly thing to imply, no one is smug - and wait for a non-existent AZ or Sino-xxx vaccine?

 

Yes, I will stipulate that some foreigners have gotten one AZ shot, or even two Sinovac shots, through some set of circumstances (luck, local hospital, mor prom, pink card, socsec, etc.).

 

Smug?  Yes, people crowing about how their friend or some official has got them on the Moderna list. Or they have registered already in three or four places. And they have been assured they will be at the head of the line. These topics have been full of posts like that. That, and the "I'll never let that Chinese junk in my arm" posts. Those are people who will turn down an opportunity to get at least some protection because they prefer a name brand vaccine. But you're right about asking what else you can do, because most Western embassies have cut off their citizens and left them with nothing to do but wait. So, yes, wait you must. But if people do get the opportunity to get AZ or Sinovac, take it, and don't turn their noses up at it because it's "Chinese junk/trash/poison" or any number pejoratives that sprinkle throughout this forum.

[Surelynot]

Just now, placeholder said:

They were studying the Covid-19 virus? Really? Got a link for that?

In December 2019, cases of pneumonia associated with an unknown coronavirus were reported to health authorities in Wuhan. The institute checked its coronavirus collection and found the new virus had 96% genetic similarity to RaTG13, a virus its researchers were studying.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, riclag said:

I must confess I know little about a third shot of the Sinovacc and its effectiveness, in catching the virus variant ,that said, many reports about the masses having very little confidence in this particular S vacc, as opposed to the American ones !

Currently there is only 1 American vaccine authorized to be used. That's the one from Moderna. The Pfizer vaccine more rightfully should be called the Biogen vaccine. It was created by 2 Turks who emigrated to Germany. That's where Biogen HQ is located. 

[spidermike007]

The Sinojunk is bottom of the barrel, very low quality stuff, with a very questionable efficacy rate. I would not take it, and it appears the majority of Thais do not want it. It almost seems to be used here, as a show of disrespect to the people, by this hapless administration. We will not spend real money on you. You are not worth it. 

 

If I were a gambling man, I would bet the farm that none of the officials here took the Sinojunk. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by spidermike007

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

In December 2019, cases of pneumonia associated with an unknown coronavirus were reported to health authorities in Wuhan. The institute checked its coronavirus collection and found the new virus had 96% genetic similarity to RaTG13, a virus its researchers were studying.

Actually 96% isn't that close. And even if it were, that's not what you previously claimed, is it? What does it mean that the RaTG13 virus was being studied? They have a huge number of viruses at that lab. Are you claiming it was being actively worked with preceding the outbreak of the virus? Got any links to support that? 

[mtls2005]

Now seems to be some question if the document is real or fake.

 

Just now Director General of Disease Control Department says leaked document which suggests no Pfizer 4 doctors is fake. 

 

 

Classic.

 

 

 

[mtls2005]

12 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Smug?  Yes, people crowing about how their friend or some official has got them on the Moderna list. Or they have registered already in three or four places. And they have been assured they will be at the head of the line. These topics have been full of posts like that.

 

Clearly you feel offended. Nothing we can do to help you.

 

 

 

 

[John Drake]

Just now, mtls2005 said:

 

Clearly you feel offended. Nothing we can do to help you.

 

 

 

 

 

So you can't discuss the matter. Just resort to snark. Pitiful.

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The Sinojunk is bottom of the barrel, very low quality stuff, with a very questionable efficacy rate. I would not take it, and it appears the majority of Thais do not want it. It almost seems to be used here, as a show of disrespect to the people, by this hapless administration. We will not spend real money on you. You are not worth it. 

 

If I were a gambling man, I would bet the farm that none of the officials here took the Sinojunk. 

:Thanks for the lack of facts. Keep up the bad work.

After vaccinating 95 percent of adults, a Brazilian city is returning to normal

The project, in which over 95 percent of the city’s adults were given the Chinese-made CoronaVac vaccine, is a real-time experiment to measure the effectiveness the vaccine, including how well it protects against coronavirus variants (SN 5/5/21). In clinical trials, the CoronaVac vaccine had an efficacy of just over 50 percent, raising concerns of how well it would work in the real world.

“This project is important because it shows that even a vaccine with relatively low efficacy can have high efficiency and significantly decrease death rates in real-life settings,” says neuroscientist Mellanie Fontes-Dutra, coordinator of the COVID-19 Analysis Network in Brazil, who is not involved in the study.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/brazil-vaccines-coronavirus-covid-serrana-normal

 

Sinovac, Pfizer/BioNtech COVID-19 vaccines prove highly effective in Uruguay -government

Uruguay on Tuesday released real-world data on the impact of Sinovac Biotech's (SVA.O) COVID-19 vaccine among its population that showed it was over 90% effective in preventing intensive care admissions and deaths.

The shot reduced deaths by 95% and intensive care admissions by 92%, and also showed 61% efficacy in cutting coronavirus infections, the government said.

A total of 795,684 people - health workers and members of the general population between the ages of 18 and 69 - at least 14 days after receiving their second dose of Sinovac's CoronaVac were compared to unvaccinated people to determine the real-world vaccine effectiveness, the government said in a report.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/sinovac-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccines-prove-highly-effective-uruguay-2021-06-08/

[sapson]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

similar story, but no so much widely reported, is that phuket governor decided to allow domestic tourists to visit with AZ, but not with sinovac.

 

Yet the 70% of Phuket residents that might have had the first jab were give Sinovac.

 

Perhaps its better to keep our heads in the sand box, because reading about and exposure to the comprehensive levels of corruption, hypocrisy, incompetence and blatant negligence by this bunch of egocentric lunatics is not good for the soul.

[jerrymahoney]

This is a time line from the Uruguay study referenced in the Reuters article above:

 

 

[Emdog]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Actually 96% isn't that close. And even if it were, that's not what you previously claimed, is it? What does it mean that the RaTG13 virus was being studied? They have a huge number of viruses at that lab. Are you claiming it was being actively worked with preceding the outbreak of the virus? Got any links to support that? 

Exactly. We share 98% of our DNA with chimps, but that doesn't make us chimps. At least some of us...