Anyone trying to sell condo?

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

Not anymore. The average for new condos is 65 baht per square meter a month. Old derelict condos are not much better because of cost overruns. Still no tax tho, but I'm sure broke government will introduce it.

    Still a bargain any way you slice it.  Even at 65 baht a sqm (and none of my many condos here has been that high), an average 50 sqm 1 bedroom would be around $100 a month for condo fees.  Eleven years ago I was paying $250 a month in condo fees for my small 1 bedroom condo in the US.  Probably at least $300 now.  

[Pravda]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

    Still a bargain any way you slice it.  Even at 65 baht a sqm (and none of my many condos here has been that high), an average 50 sqm 1 bedroom would be around $100 a month for condo fees.  Eleven years ago I was paying $250 a month in condo fees for my small 1 bedroom condo in the US.  Probably at least $300 now.  

That may be bargain to you, but not to most Thai people who whinge and complain at board meetings about 10 baht increase in maintenance fees. They certainly can't afford to have their units empty. 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Pravda said:

That may be bargain to you, but not to most Thai people who whinge and complain at board meetings about 10 baht increase in maintenance fees. They certainly can't afford to have their units empty. 

"Most Thais" can't afford a Bangkok condo....

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Yellowtail
sp

[Pravda]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

"Most Thais" can't afford a Bangkok condo....

 

 

There are many different price points in Bangkok. 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Pravda said:

There are many different price points in Bangkok. 

And most Thais are able to afford any of them. 

 

Many can, but most? I don't think so. 

 

What do you think the median income is? 

 

What's the monthly nut on just a B1M condo? 

[Pravda]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

And most Thais are able to afford any of them. 

 

Many can, but most? I don't think so. 

 

What do you think the median income is? 

 

What's the monthly nut on just a B1M condo? 

 

I see. What I meant to say is that most Thais who "own" a condominium whinge and complain about 10 baht raise in maintenance fees.

 

And my point to the other poster is that 65 baht in maintenance fees is not a small fee at all. This eats almost 3 months rent on a 1 year contract at current rental prices in my building. No, most Thais can't afford to have these units empty. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Pravda

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Pravda said:

 

I see. What I meant to say is that most Thais who "own" a condominium whinge and complain about 10 baht raise in maintenance fees.

There are people that don't complain when fees are raised? 

[Pravda]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

There are people that don't complain when fees are raised? 

 

Yes. The poster called newnative

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

YEP, this is the hard reality in a country that is literally closed for business.

and i do not think the market will recover anytime soon, maybe another 3-5 years .

many thai people are bankrupt or going bankrupt, and the tourists or foreign investors

who might have helped are staying faraway because of rigid immigration rules.

[Pravda]

3 months later still no takers. Meanwhile every surrounding condo project raised their prices 20% in the anticipation of upcoming opening.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

On 7/10/2021 at 7:06 AM, sucit said:

RE is booming in the west. It stands to reason that pattern may work

in the west people have money that they can't spend on vacations in thailand.

in thailand most people have no money

[chrisandsu]

No In the west we have such a devalued currency from all of the printing we are getting massive inflation in everything including real estate . The only silver lining is borrowing money is cheap with low interest rates . 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

 

Yes. The poster called newnative

   True, I don't.  I prefer the condo projects where I own and live to be nicely maintained, and they are.  I also don't object to special assessments.  We had one recently at my Bangkok condo to cover painting the building, which now looks even better than it did before.  A small amount of money per unit, condo project maintained, money well-spent.  No-brainer.  The majority of the owners are Thai, by the way, and they voted for the special assessment.  

    At 40 baht a sqm., the project has a ways to go till it gets to your 65 baht a sqm. figure.   My condo is 52 sqm. so I am paying 2,080 baht a month, or about $65.   As I said in my earlier post, a total bargain compared to condo fees in the US.  If it at some point gets to your 65 baht, I'll be paying that with no whining, too.  

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, chrisandsu said:

No In the west we have such a devalued currency from all of the printing we are getting massive inflation in everything including real estate . The only silver lining is borrowing money is cheap with low interest rates . 

The low interest rate is the biggest driver of real estate prices in the US. If the interest rate goes up a couple points, the prices will be unsustainable and the bottom will fall out of the market. 

[chrisandsu]

18 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The low interest rate is the biggest driver of real estate prices in the US. If the interest rate goes up a couple points, the prices will be unsustainable and the bottom will fall out of the market. 

Which is why borrowed money becomes cheaper if inflation also raises incomes .

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

Which is why borrowed money becomes cheaper if inflation also raises incomes .

Please explain what do you mean by that. 

 

But yes, having a 30 year loan at 3% when the current interest rate is 6% it great, and real estate, and equities for that mater are generally a nice hedge against inflation. 

 

BUT, if the interest rate jumps from 3% to 6%, the payment on a $500K home goes from about $2,000 a month to $3,000. It's not likely wages will keep pace with that kind of increase. 

 

[chrisandsu]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Please explain what do you mean by that. 

 

But yes, having a 30 year loan at 3% when the current interest rate is 6% it great, and real estate, and equities for that mater are generally a nice hedge against inflation. 

 

BUT, if the interest rate jumps from 3% to 6%, the payment on a $500K home goes from about $2,000 a month to $3,000. It's not likely wages will keep pace with that kind of increase. 

 

Most people get a locked in rate . I can’t see interest rates going up and won’t affect people who already have loans as of today , especially when variable interest rates are a thing of the past  . This is a great time to borrow even with inflated money as it’s tax free . 

[prchunter]

26 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

Most people get a locked in rate . I can’t see interest rates going up and won’t affect people who already have loans as of today , especially when variable interest rates are a thing of the past  . This is a great time to borrow even with inflated money as it’s tax free . 

Most loans I've dealt with in Asia are floating rates.  However, they only change slightly year to year as the central banks don't want to deal with the problems that Yellowtail mentioned. 

[Yellowtail]

17 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

Most people get a locked in rate .

Yes, most people get fixed rates and are protected, but new buyers have to pay the higher rate, which drives the value down. Sentimental value notwithstanding, something is only worth what you can sell it for. 

17 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

I can’t see interest rates going up...

Yeah, neither could the people in the '70s

 

17 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

and won’t affect people who already have loans as of today , especially when variable interest rates are a thing of the past  .

It would affect anyone that wants to move, anyone that wants to buy, and anyone that wants to borrow against their home. 

 

17 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

This is a great time to borrow even with inflated money as it’s tax free . 

I do not disagree, but I have no idea what you mean by "inflated money". 

 

Also, what do you mean by "Which is why borrowed money becomes cheaper if inflation also raises incomes"

 

[chrisandsu]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, most people get fixed rates and are protected, but new buyers have to pay the higher rate, which drives the value down. Sentimental value notwithstanding, something is only worth what you can sell it for. 

Yeah, neither could the people in the '70s

 

It would affect anyone that wants to move, anyone that wants to buy, and anyone that wants to borrow against their home. 

 

I do not disagree, but I have no idea what you mean by "inflated money". 

 

Also, what do you mean by "Which is why borrowed money becomes cheaper if inflation also raises incomes"

 

The easiest example I can give is …. 14 years ago I bought my house for $290k over the years we have had around 1% inflation per year ,  which eats away at that loan a lot slower but still after 15 years it’s 15% inflation plus I have paid it down while earning in theory more money (for example let’s say I get a 2% rise per year rise in my income).  Now we are hitting close to 5% inflation that loan is looking tiny in comparison to todays perceived value . Remember when grandma said she built her house for $20 k in the 60s but now it’s worth $1.5 million ? Do you think that the $ has more value or that there is so many printed $ in the system that it’s actually lost it’s value ? Either way that real estate was a good investment right ?

[chrisandsu]

22 hours ago, prchunter said:

Most loans I've dealt with in Asia are floating rates.  However, they only change slightly year to year as the central banks don't want to deal with the problems that Yellowtail mentioned. 

Canada is In trouble . They have to remortgage every 5 years . They can’t lock in a long term rate . Any jump and you will see the house of cards collapse .

[Pravda]

11 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

Canada is In trouble . They have to remortgage every 5 years . They can’t lock in a long term rate . Any jump and you will see the house of cards collapse .

 

People been saying the same thing for 10 years. Canadians have A LOT of money and they saved even more pile of money during covid.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, chrisandsu said:

The easiest example I can give is …. 14 years ago I bought my house for $290k over the years we have had around 1% inflation per year ,  which eats away at that loan a lot slower but still after 15 years it’s 15% inflation plus I have paid it down while earning in theory more money (for example let’s say I get a 2% rise per year rise in my income).  Now we are hitting close to 5% inflation that loan is looking tiny in comparison to todays perceived value . Remember when grandma said she built her house for $20 k in the 60s but now it’s worth $1.5 million ? Do you think that the $ has more value or that there is so many printed $ in the system that it’s actually lost it’s value ? Either way that real estate was a good investment right ?

If you don't know, just say you don't know, no shame in that. 

 

But yes, real estate is often a pretty good investment.

[chrisandsu]

29 minutes ago, Pravda said:

 

People been saying the same thing for 10 years. Canadians have A LOT of money and they saved even more pile of money during covid.

Prices are starting to drop there now . Especially in bc 

[chrisandsu]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If you don't know, just say you don't know, no shame in that. 

 

But yes, real estate is often a pretty good investment.

What ?

[Pravda]

34 minutes ago, chrisandsu said:

Prices are starting to drop there now . Especially in bc 

 

No, not really

[Yellowtail]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:41 PM, chrisandsu said:

What ?

I was hoping you would explain what you mean by "inflated money" and what you meant by "Which is why borrowed money becomes cheaper if inflation also raises incomes".

 

I do not understand either, and your "example" did not help. If you can explain great, if you can't. that's okay too. 

 

 

[chrisandsu]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I was hoping you would explain what you mean by "inflated money" and what you meant by "Which is why borrowed money becomes cheaper if inflation also raises incomes".

 

I do not understand either, and your "example" did not help. If you can explain great, if you can't. that's okay too. 

 

 

I couldn’t explain it any simpler . 

[prchunter]

On 10/21/2021 at 2:50 PM, Yellowtail said:

I was hoping you would explain what you mean by "inflated money" and what you meant by "Which is why borrowed money becomes cheaper if inflation also raises incomes".

 

I do not understand either, and your "example" did not help. If you can explain great, if you can't. that's okay too. 

 

 

Basically it just means that money in the future is more expensive then money now.  For example a Big Mac that costed $1 (just an example, I didn't bother to check the numbers）10 years ago.  Now the same Big Mac costs $2.  That would translate into something like 7% inflation per year.  By the same logic, a plumber might earn $10 an hour ten years ago and now charges $20 an hour.  Say he buys a condo and takes out a loan at 2%, his ability to service the loan increases by 5% a year (7%-2%) so the loan service requirements take up less and less of his income as the years pass by.  

The only problem with this is thai banks typically loan at around an 8% interest rate, so unless you can get a cheap loan, an 8% interest is pretty hard to beat.  

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, prchunter said:

Basically it just means that money in the future is more expensive then money now.  For example a Big Mac that costed $1 (just an example, I didn't bother to check the numbers）10 years ago.  Now the same Big Mac costs $2.  That would translate into something like 7% inflation per year.  By the same logic, a plumber might earn $10 an hour ten years ago and now charges $20 an hour.  Say he buys a condo and takes out a loan at 2%, his ability to service the loan increases by 5% a year (7%-2%) so the loan service requirements take up less and less of his income as the years pass by.  

The only problem with this is thai banks typically loan at around an 8% interest rate, so unless you can get a cheap loan, an 8% interest is pretty hard to beat.  

Thank you, I understand that. So after ten years the plumber is paying the same thing for the Big Mac and paying less for their home, assuming they have not borrowed against it.