Thailand to combine Sinovac, AstraZeneca vaccine doses to boost protection - minister

[wensiensheng]

48 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

As to the post a notch above, his name is Michael R. Bloomberg but people call him Mike. I'd guess he'd love to here from you as to his shortfalls of his reporting.

I’ve noticed you get belligerent when people respond to your posts. I really don’t know why. It serves no purpose and is certainly unnecessary.

 

let’s just say that people can read your post and the attached article, then read my post and form their own opinions.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Isaan sailor said:

Need to find good use for those millions of doses of SinoVac.   Could they vaccinate the soy dogs?

What, before the chocolate elephants?

[hotchilli]

14 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Guess they are going to continue to use the current stocks of Sinovac for a first jab regardless......... rather than throw it away.

Not on me they aren't.

[hotchilli]

12 hours ago, rodknock said:

what is new, government waste money on something new.

there brown bags are all redy filled.

Unlike vaccines that work there's never a shortage of brown bags.

[Boedog]

15 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow very interesting.  So, those that have only one Sinovac will now get a Astrazeneca?

Sounds good but have there been sufficient studies on the safety/efficacy of this mix of vaccines?  

 

They will get back to you on that the human trials are still ongoing for getting 1 brand of the vaccine now that we know sinovax is useless we will get the humans back to see what happens when we mix the poisons together 

[jerrymahoney]

27 minutes ago, wensiensheng said:

I’ve noticed you get belligerent when people respond to your posts. I really don’t know why. It serves no purpose and is certainly unnecessary.

 

let’s just say that people can read your post and the attached article, then read my post and form their own opinions.

I posted an article with zero editorial comment from me. You then post a response with all sorts of assumptions and not one link provided to any source to substantiate your claim. You also seem to imply that the Bloomberg article is sloppy reporting. I didn't write the article and I made no claim that I agree with everything said in the article.

Edited July 13, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[milesinnz]

Where are all the trolls trying to tell everyone that the Chinese vaccines are good ??? hiding under their beds I guess...

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, smedly said:

is that one dose each ?

 

if so do both the vaccines have same mode of operation 

 

There is no evidence that supports what Thailand is doing with one shot AZ  and one shot sinovac which is what this topic is about 

 

There is evidence that supports one shot AZ and one shot mRNA but that is not what Thailand is doing

 

As for the same mode of operation,, but AZ is a viral vector vaccine and Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA vaccines.

And once again, there is no authority that gets to define fully vaccinated. It's whatever a country's health authority deems it to be.

[SooKee]

Double whammy coming I guess for the powers that be.  Full speed ahead on Sinovac which is considered to be so ineffective they have to now 2nd dose with the AZ  (a move which pretty much renders 50% of the first dose and 100% of the second dose track record null and void) and the need for other nations to step up and bail them out with vaccine donations to make up the drastic shortfall.  Loss of face or what.

[Speedhump]

I wonder how many Sinovac they bought that remain unused, and that sensible people will reject, preferring nothing over a false sense of security? I'm 64 and still waiting to have my number called for a firm vax date (no stocks in Prachuap....).

[pentagara]

14 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

So basically wasting all of these AZ vaccines on boosters because the sinovac govt bought turned out to be useless.

Nah, not really.

 

First, there was no AZ when they used the majority of Sinovac in Thailand so far. The majority of people that are vaccinated right now would be completely unprotected if they had waited for AZ. Any vaccine is better than no vaccine, especially for front line workers. Even if it helps to protect you only for a few months as stated in the research, e.g. while there's a peak outbreak - like right now.

 

Second, without Sinovac you definitely need two AZ doses. Efficacy of AZ especially against delta with only one dose is not too good. If you already had two Sinovac, one AZ shot should be perfectly enough based on current knowledge. There's even a high likelihood that this vaccine mix protects better than reusing the same vaccine (i.e. two AZ doses). But anyway, since you only need to use one AZ shot right now with people that already had Sinovac,  you can use the other AZ dose right now to help protect someone else. At the moment there's a scarcity of vaccines in Thailand not a glut that allows everyone to pick and choose. Again, any vaccine is better than none.

 

Third, with AZ alone you have to wait forever until you're fully protected (16+2 weeks in Thailand). You definitely need two doses of AZ for delta to be meaningfully protected, but you can't take them quickly one after another due to the technology used (adenovirus/vector). If you take them quickly one after another, efficacy of AZ against covid goes down substantially. If you mix Sinovac and AZ, you don't have to wait that long, since only one of the two shots will have the vector virus. As a result, four weeks wait between the doses should be perfectly enough.

 

[wensiensheng]

12 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

I posted an article with zero editorial comment from me. You then post a response with all sorts of assumptions and not one link provided to any source to substantiate your claim. You also seem to imply that the Bloomberg article is sloppy reporting. I didn't write the article and I made no claim that I agree with everything said in the article.

 

A guy wanted to know about the situation in China. I posted the article. Then you proceed to take apart the article. What has that got to do with me other than I responded to someone's request.

See what I mean?

[The Cipher]

27 minutes ago, wensiensheng said:

I’ve noticed you get belligerent when people respond to your posts.

You're looking at it the wrong way. The guys that get emotionally invested are the best guys to troll. Treat yourself to a nice cold drink every time you cause a meltdown.

[grandpa]

15 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

On Monday, a preliminary Thai study of 700 medical workers indicated that Sinovac's protection rate as measured by antibody level ranged between 60% and 70% for the first 60 days after the second dose, but the rate steadily went down over time and appeared to halve every 40 days.

So 140 days after the second dose it is only 15% effective! That is only just over 4 months! No use at all! Are people who have had 2 shots of Sinovac allowed to go to Phuket? Bin it, and stick to those that have a reasonably proven record!  Although, nothing is certain, even if you can get vaccinated!

Edited July 13, 2021 by grandpa

[jerrymahoney]

9 minutes ago, wensiensheng said:

See what I mean?

Good. Your opinion with zero substantiation of anything you write should be the gold standard. I do my best to post verifiable sources without opinion from me. You seem to do the opposite.

 

The only emotional investment I have is with the billion plus people in the world who will get Sinovac and likely nothing else and then have to deal with social media saying Hey! the a vaccine you just received is useless.

Edited July 13, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[Millcx]

15 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

So basically wasting all of these AZ vaccines on boosters because the sinovac govt bought turned out to be useless.

It’s becoming a bigger joke than the Sandbox 

[Cake Monster]

15 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

BANGKOK (Reuters) -Thailand will use AstraZeneca Plc's COVID-19 vaccine as a second dose for those who received Sinovac's shot as their first dose in a bid to increase protection, it said on Monday.

This seems to be some kind of admission that many of the Health workers have only received a single shot of Sinovac as protection.

If they had been double dosed , The Headline would have been

" Thailand to use AZ ( Plc ? )Vaccine to boost the Immunity of the vaccinated Health Workers "

It is little wonder so many of these dedicated people have become infected.

They have been thrown under a Bus by their Employers.

[Addonvalue]

Just wondering -- are folks missing all the news about several European countries dumping AstraZ and the European Medical Authority's (EMA) report finding links between the blood-clotting side-effects and deaths from Astra?  Now the actual time needed for clinical trials for these vaccines has been ignored due to 'emergency' use .   " In the trial records, it is explicitly stated that estimated study completion dates for the Pfizer, Mordena and AstraZeneca safety-related study are May 2, 2023, October 27, 2022, and February 14, 2023, respectively. " (can share details if required from a report I have read) All this to say -- now we want to COMBINE TWO experimental vaccines -- when NO clinical HUMAN trials have been done to see the effects? Not sure who wants to be the "test-tube" and guinea pigs for these upcoming injections? 

 

[crickets]

After having the astra zenica vaccine i think i would of preferred to have Covid instead. Its like being hit by a truck.

[jomtienisgood]

15 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

So basically wasting all of these AZ vaccines on boosters because the sinovac govt bought turned out to be useless.

In the end,  0 vaccine + 0 vaccine = BIG  0000000

[crazykopite]

So its a case of mix and match with no evidence that it will work so why continue with the purchase of the Chinese rubbish on KP last Friday there were two types of shot the Chinese vaccine was given to Burmese in the morning and the AZ was given to Farang in the afternoon i was one of the lucky ones to get the AZ 

[pentagara]

2 minutes ago, Addonvalue said:

Just wondering -- are folks missing all the news about several European countries dumping AstraZ and the European Medical Authority's (EMA) report finding links between the blood-clotting side-effects and deaths from Astra?  Now the actual time needed for clinical trials for these vaccines has been ignored due to 'emergency' use .   " In the trial records, it is explicitly stated that estimated study completion dates for the Pfizer, Mordena and AstraZeneca safety-related study are May 2, 2023, October 27, 2022, and February 14, 2023, respectively. " (can share details if required from a report I have read) All this to say -- now we want to COMBINE TWO experimental vaccines -- when NO clinical HUMAN trials have been done to see the effects? Not sure who wants to be the "test-tube" and guinea pigs for these upcoming injections? 

 

You rather want to be a guinea pig for the effects of Covid (be it long or short term)? Well, it's good to have people that make a sacrifice, I guess...

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, crickets said:

After having the astra zenica vaccine i think i would of preferred to have Covid instead. Its like being hit by a truck.

I had AZ first dose and also suffered for around 24 hours or so.

 

My wife had Sinovac and had no reaction, zero, zilch. I won't repeat what her comment was about that but suffice to say she will be paying for an mrna or AZ vaccine as soon as possible.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[raccos21]

[rickudon]

11 minutes ago, Addonvalue said:

Just wondering -- are folks missing all the news about several European countries dumping AstraZ and the European Medical Authority's (EMA) report finding links between the blood-clotting side-effects and deaths from Astra?  Now the actual time needed for clinical trials for these vaccines has been ignored due to 'emergency' use .   " In the trial records, it is explicitly stated that estimated study completion dates for the Pfizer, Mordena and AstraZeneca safety-related study are May 2, 2023, October 27, 2022, and February 14, 2023, respectively. " (can share details if required from a report I have read) All this to say -- now we want to COMBINE TWO experimental vaccines -- when NO clinical HUMAN trials have been done to see the effects? Not sure who wants to be the "test-tube" and guinea pigs for these upcoming injections? 

 

ALL of the vaccines have side effects. Astra Zeneca maybe one to  four deaths per million -still much lower than Covid death risk. The MRNA vaccines also associated with heart inflammation, but the stats on that are limited. Up to you if you think risking Covid is a better option than a vaccination

[Bkk Brian]

Just saw this from a poster on another thread:

 

GENEVA (Reuters) – The World Health Organization’s chief scientist on Monday advised against people mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines from different manufacturers, calling it a “dangerous trend” since there was little data available about the health impact.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/who-warns-against-mixing-and-matching-covid-vaccines/

[EricTh]

8 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Please show us the data that shows the vaccines are less effective against the Delta variant as I have obviously been misinformed by the leading sciencetists.

 

I do take your point in that if the virus mutates then there is concern that they may be less effective though.

 

This is the principle of microbiology that is well known even among the medical students.

 

Straight from the horse's mouth (Dr William Moss of John Hopkins Vaccine Center) in the video below.

 

 

The evidence is in the spike of cases in UK, Israel who had most of their citizens vaccinated. The devastating effect in India caused by Delta variant is well known.

Edited July 13, 2021 by EricTh

[smedly]

39 minutes ago, pentagara said:

Nah, not really.

 

First, there was no AZ when they used the majority of Sinovac in Thailand so far. The majority of people that are vaccinated right now would be completely unprotected if they had waited for AZ. Any vaccine is better than no vaccine, especially for front line workers. Even if it helps to protect you only for a few months as stated in the research, e.g. while there's a peak outbreak - like right now.

 

Second, without Sinovac you definitely need two AZ doses. Efficacy of AZ especially against delta with only one dose is not too good. If you already had two Sinovac, one AZ shot should be perfectly enough based on current knowledge. There's even a high likelihood that this vaccine mix protects better than reusing the same vaccine (i.e. two AZ doses). But anyway, since you only need to use one AZ shot right now with people that already had Sinovac,  you can use the other AZ dose right now to help protect someone else. At the moment there's a scarcity of vaccines in Thailand not a glut that allows everyone to pick and choose. Again, any vaccine is better than none.

 

Third, with AZ alone you have to wait forever until you're fully protected (16+2 weeks in Thailand). You definitely need two doses of AZ for delta to be meaningfully protected, but you can't take them quickly one after another due to the technology used (adenovirus/vector). If you take them quickly one after another, efficacy of AZ against covid goes down substantially. If you mix Sinovac and AZ, you don't have to wait that long, since only one of the two shots will have the vector virus. As a result, four weeks wait between the doses should be perfectly enough.

 

very sensible post but unfortunately an awful lot of it contains assumptions that have yet to be proven in any meaningful way, I personally have my doubts about one shot AZ and one shot sinovac 

 

I might be more confident about 2 sinovac and 1 AZ

 

what bothers me is the fact that many frontline health workers have only recieved one dose of either vaccine again showing the massive failure of this government to protect vital resource and instead focus on places like Phuket for their precious tourism - a fundamental error in priorities, they basically threw health workers under a bus as recent reports verify with many of them falling ill and even deaths reported   

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

They need to get rid of all those Sinovac (read Saline) and people who’ve already had one Astra Zeneca jab front of the queue please!

[smedly]

18 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Just saw this from a poster on another thread:

 

GENEVA (Reuters) – The World Health Organization’s chief scientist on Monday advised against people mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines from different manufacturers, calling it a “dangerous trend” since there was little data available about the health impact.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/who-warns-against-mixing-and-matching-covid-vaccines/

one dose AZ and mRNA have shown to be effective in studies in Germany but show little advantage so why bother 

 

What Thailand is doing IMO is pointless and I do not trust any study they claim to have done - it is hogwash

 

I am wondering if that WHO statement is directed specifically at Thailand 

Edited July 13, 2021 by smedly