'We don't know if we'll survive': Thailand sex workers left struggling as COVID-19 lockdown drags on

[Leaver]

17 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Thailand needs to invest heavily in home built businesses that it owns and controls, giving the populous work options, not relying solely on foreign investments.

 

Could  guaranteed price per kilo of rice be the answer?   ????

[Straight8]

21 hours ago, hotchilli said:

She obviously lived for the day... no future plan

.

Probably thinking the good times would never end.

 

Unfortunately, no one could have imaged something like this, but they all had a chance to plan for the future. I'm sure some did, but most, <deleted> it down the toilet as fast as they received it.

[Straight8]

20 hours ago, Nanaplaza666 said:

And this sex industry will only get bigger with more girls that will return to the areas when things will get back to normal , because they all will need to pay of their parrents' debts that have been made during this pandemic and there will be more families in debt then there have ever been  . There will be a lot more girls going into this business then ever before when tourists start to return . 

Supply and demand.

 

Punters should be getting some real bargains, like the good ol days!

[morrobay]

16 minutes ago, Straight8 said:

Probably thinking the good times would never end.

 

Unfortunately, no one could have imaged something like this, but they all had a chance to plan for the future. I'm sure some did, but most, <deleted> it down the toilet as fast as they received it.

Plan for the future kinda hard to do when the girl has some thai male parasite living with her ( whether she wants him or not)

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, The Cipher said:

Out of curiosity did they explain why they married girls they met in that industry, or the attributes that they thought made their bargirl a good life partner?

 

Not even really judging. Just curious since the thought process is pretty hard for me to wrap my head around.

Because some of them are in reality decent enough people. The old adage about taking the bar out of the girl is rare... perhaps applies to those who have been in the game a long time.

You would be surprised, but a lot of them really would like a foreign husband (or sponsor), who would help her financially and take the weight of bringing up a kid the earlier husband has abandoned. These are to be found in bars, and that is where she needs to be, working, and doing what that entails.

[Artisi]

10 hours ago, pedro01 said:

Are you saying that the smart hookers were all studying in their spare time? 

 

That those playing on their phones weren't the clever ones?

 

From what I've seen - it's the prettiest one's that seem to get on. 

 

I didn't know the punters where checking resume's & qualifications. 

Well not academic qualifications ????

[The Cipher]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Because some of them are in reality decent enough people. You would be surprised, but a lot of them really would like a foreign husband (or sponsor), who would help her financially and take the weight of bringing up a kid the earlier husband has abandoned.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

 

My curiosity is more about what the foreign husband finds appealing about that arrangement. If they're happy then that's great. But the idea of marrying a former bargirl and raising someone else's kid isn't something that resonates with me at all, and so I'm just trying to broaden my horizons by reading the perspectives of others.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, The Cipher said:

My curiosity is more about what the foreign husband finds appealing about that arrangement. If they're happy then that's great. But the idea of marrying a former bargirl and raising someone else's kid isn't something that resonates with me at all, and so I'm just trying to broaden my horizons by reading the perspectives of others.

Well it certainly is not for everyone, and many cultures do not do well taking other people's children on board. Former bargirl, what has passed has passed. Kids are appealing whoever sired them, and can even accept you as a father, and the guy has the compassion. You see such family groups all the  time and they look happy enough, some guys love kids and want them in their lives. 

But I too have some reservations.... that of older guys marrying Thai girls rather too young for them... and having children. A 70 year old isn't likely to be around long enough to be a good father to a newborn as it grown older. 

[Kerryd]

9 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

I am not necessarily sure of that I agree that in most cases that is true.  But In Canada I did not live a sheltered life and knew a few people in the industry both as strippers and escorts.  A great deal of them had a plan. 

Ahh, "that" Kingston.
Last time I was there was the summer of 2006, doing pre-deployment training before going on my second stint in Afghanistan.
I'd worked with one of the other guys doing the PDT when we were in Kabul during our first contract.

He really wanted to go to the Plaza ("Plazoo") to check out the strippers. At the time I think that was the only strip club in Kingston. 10 minutes in and I was bored and ready to leave.
1 stage. 1 stripper that would come out (clothed) dance for one song, leave for a minute, come back for one song and at the end of it take off her bra just before leaving the stage again, then she'd come back for one more song and just before it ended she'd take off her panties and then walk off the stage.
I was ready to leave before she finished the 3rd song.

And then a 20 minute break before the next one !

I tried to explain to my friend what the "gogo" bars in Thailand were like but he didn't believe it. Never went back to the Plaza after that.

I'd been to some bigger (and better) strip clubs in Canada. Having a "lap dance" where you have to keep your hands to yourself and she keeps half her clothes on ? Boring. And expensive.
In BC they have a law that there has to be a (12" ? 16" ?) gap between the stripper and the customers and neither is allowed to cross that gap (the customer could get tossed if he crossed it and the stripper would get a warning if she crossed it because the bar could be fined and lose their liquor license).  

But the girls do apparently make good money. Many work for companies that hire them out to different clubs. They end up on a "circuit" where they go from club to club, city to city, then start over again, maybe with a new look and new name.
Between salary and tips and even merchandise (signed posters and photos for example), a lot of them do OK.

Of course, in some places the "trade" is "managed" by some unsavoury types. Not unusual to go to a club or massage joint and see the muscle sitting there to make sure the customers don't get a little too familiar with the girls. (In Western Canada, that "muscle" usually wears HA colours.)

And in North America, the "lookers" often work for "talent agencies" that arrange modelling gigs and "other" jobs for them.
For example. A former First Lady used to work for such an agency. She did a number of modelling gigs and the agency would be hired to provide "eye candy" at exclusive parties attended by the rich and powerful. The "models" were usually "available" if they caught the fancy of any of those elites. Kind of like how a certain (supposedly wealthy) real estate broker, who was at one such party with his (second) wife, took a fancy to one of the "models" and slipped her his phone number while his wife was in the bathroom.
(He ended up dumping the wife and marrying the model a little while later.)

In Thailand the "lookers" often also work for such agencies, but are usually referred to as "pretties". Depending on the girl, the party and how much is being offered, they may be "available" to the guests as well.

There are also high end "coyote bars" where the really pretty ones dance and try to attract the attention of the "richer" customers. Used to be one near soi 5 in Pattaya, hidden in a soi between #2 road and Beach road.
Mostly Thai customers because a) they had a dress code that included no flip flops, wife beater t-shirts or shorts and b) it was expensive. As in 300 baht for a beer you could get at a bar 100 meters away for 80 baht.
Oh, did I mention that the "bar fine" was 12,000 baht ? I think that was to keep the customers from bar fining all the dancers minutes after the place opened, leaving them with no one on stage. Also kept most of the "foreigners" out as well.

But the women dancing there were some of the hottest women in the country. Some had been in Thai versions of Penthouse or other magazines and almost all the others could have been "runners up" as well.
Most of them worked for agencies that also hired them out to go from club to club on a circuit, though it was usually a month per club/city. 

And they got paid good money. The club in Pattaya did have a rule that the girls had to "sell" a certain number of lady drinks to get their full salary. My friend said she made something like 30,000 a month just to dance but if she sold a certain number of lady drinks she could make up to 20,000 a month more. Not including tips. The "star" performers made a lot more.
(At that time, a "service" girl working at serving drinks and cleaning tables made around 4,500 a month in salary.)

But most spend like the good times will never end and in truth, no one really expected the good times to end this time either. Sure there was the ban on tourists and a lot of places closed, but I doubt anyone really expected it would drag on this long.

Remember the stories early on of bars staying open and paying their staff salaries, in the expectations that things would go back to "normal" in a couple weeks or so.
Which turned into a couple months, which resulted in a lot of those places also closing down.
And now it's been about what, 17 months since they stopped letting tourists into the country ?

Even for people who did put some money away for a rainy day, that's a long time to try and survive of your savings.

 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

 

You would be surprised, but a lot of them really would like a foreign husband (or sponsor), who would help her financially and take the weight of bringing up a kid the earlier husband has abandoned. These are to be found in bars, and that is where she needs to be, working, and doing what that entails.

What you are describing is an ATM which is what the foreign men end up being

[Kerryd]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

But I too have some reservations.... that of older guys marrying Thai girls rather too young for them... and having children. A 70 year old isn't likely to be around long enough to be a good father to a newborn as it grown older. 

I agree. Which is why I hope I don't have kids. At least none I know of.
I'm a ways away from 70, but even a 60 year old having a kid is bad. You'd be 80 when "it" graduates high school, assuming you made it that long. My dad passed on at 77 (I came along when he was 29 though). 
If he'd had a kid at 60 though, he'd have died when the kid was just 17.

And the kid would quite likely end up a new "dad" who probably wouldn't care for them as much. Or worse, might care for them a little too much..........

The g/f told me a couple years ago that her mom wants her to have a baby because she misses having a wee one around the house. Apparently she'd have no problem with her daughter popping one out and leaving it with her to raise. (Assuming the daughter and her boyfriend/husband/whoever was chipping in to help raise it of course.)

I know a guy up north who recently had a kid and I'm sure he's a few years older than I am and, I suspect, probably not destined for a long, healthy life (drinks and smokes a lot). His daughter will be lucky if he's still around when she graduates.

Of course, a lot of punters have no idea about what is really going on "back home". I suspect many rarely, if ever, visit the better half's home village. I've heard some mention that they refuse to go and if the girl's parents want to see her, they can come visit (for a couple days) and that's it.

Used to be as well that a girl wouldn't bring a foreigner "home" with her as she didn't want the whole village to think she was a hooker and the foreigner was one of her customers.

And most old, dawdling foreigners wouldn't want to spend a lot of time in a remote Isaan village anyways where the only thing to do all day is swat at flies and try to remember the names of all the chickens running around the yard.

So they may not have a clue that her "mom" seems to have a lot of kids for a woman "her age". Or that "her brother/cousin/uncle" never seems to have a wife/girlfriend of his own, but is always around when she comes to visit.

I'm surprised we haven't read stories about all the dead "kwai" littering the rice fields of Isaan, as they haven't been getting the medicine that all those girls in all those bars over all those years have said they needed !

"Oh won't someone think about the buffalo !"

[hellohello123]

15 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Met a girl today, lost her phone had to buy a junk second hand one because she sends all her money home for baby and family bills.

 

Another girl two days ago family business has gone bust so no job, 80 baht left and family can't support anymore, doesn't know what to do, must be millions like that

thats very nice of you but, if the situation was reveresed, would she buy you a phone/help you back on your feet?

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, The Cipher said:

My curiosity is more about what the foreign husband finds appealing about that arrangement. If they're happy then that's great. But the idea of marrying a former bargirl and raising someone else's kid isn't something that resonates with me at all, and so I'm just trying to broaden my horizons by reading the perspectives of others.

What I found appealing ...........

As much sex as I wanted, when I wanted, marriage VISA extensions, 1 Year non Os with no finances.

A stunningly attractive young woman with me, one I couldn't have got even when I was young.

One of the kids is mine, one of them was hers, I got to keep both when she left.

 

PS.

The kid that wasn't mine, tuned out to be as much mine as the ones that were mine.

Edited August 17, 2021 by BritManToo

[brewsterbudgen]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What I found appealing ...........

As much sex as I wanted, when I wanted, marriage VISA extensions, 1 Year non Os with no finances.

A stunningly attractive young woman with me, one I couldn't have got even when I was young.

One of the kids is mine, one of them was hers, I got to keep both when she left.

 

PS.

The kid that wasn't mine, tuned out to be as much mine as the ones that were mine.

My situation is different as I get no visa extension benefits, the opposite in fact, as my girl isn't Thai and I have to sort out extensions for her and my kid every year!  I wanted a kid though, so despite the problems of being an "older" parent, I'm glad I did it when I did.

[scubascuba3]

12 minutes ago, hellohello123 said:

thats very nice of you but, if the situation was reveresed, would she buy you a phone/help you back on your feet?

 

 

I didn't buy her a phone, I'm not a falang mug ATM, neither of those girls asked me for money

[hellohello123]

3 hours ago, Straight8 said:

Probably thinking the good times would never end.

 

Unfortunately, no one could have imaged something like this, but they all had a chance to plan for the future. I'm sure some did, but most, <deleted> it down the toilet as fast as they received it.

regarldess of gender/culture,  its not rocket science,

 

you could die tomorrow, you might regret not living it up, thats the gamble you take in life

 

ive had 2 friends who lived pay to pay+ more, were unemployed and still refused to change their lifestyle.

 

fast fwd 10 years, one of them got lucky gambling and paid his $100,000 debt all back in one shot, now lives the same high life but has a good paying job,

the other his credit ruined, he will be a renter for life, and is always struggling financially,

 

some people are lucky , some are not, but its not luck/unlucky if you cant tell that some jobs wont be around/possible for ever

[BTB1977]

Most are too lazy to put in the effort of making money from internet customers.  They are use to the customers coming to them . Thats why they chose that work. 

[bbko]

On 8/16/2021 at 9:05 AM, Taboo2 said:

Karma is a bitch.....remember all those lonely souls they ripped off?  Well, sooner or later Karma was coming to get you....555555

If karma is a bitch like you say, then surely those "lonely souls" did something negative in their past and deserved being ripped off, karma came and got them eh?

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

13 hours ago, pedro01 said:

Are you saying that the smart hookers were all studying in their spare time? 

 

That those playing on their phones weren't the clever ones?

Yes. There's an education to be found in that environment if they try. It requires a good, positive attitude, which most people learn rewards them with advancement, while the opposite does not. Same as in any job. Being open and polite with people, engaging in conversation, finding doors to be open.

 

With this their skills can develop, people skills, English skills. It doesn't always happen in a classroom, or by opening books. Not just in the sex industry, but with any kind of service, leading to the tips that restaurant and hotel workers receive, the return clients I landed when I was in sales way back when, and the regulars with the online teaching I do now. Then with some of these customers a relationship may develop, personal or professional, allowing them to leave those jobs or move up to better ones. It's why the best jobs to be landed aren't to be found in the listings, but by networking.

 

In the same vein, down the road from my Issan village are some large houses built by farangs, for Thai ladies with whom they had forged relationships. And contrary to popular belief, they don't always take the money and run. Most of those couples are still together, my wife tells me. I don't think they all were sex workers, but at one time had been involved in some work in BKK or Patts, leading them to cross paths with some farang, and due to their positive, friendly, proactive demeanors, had been rewarded.

 

Or on the other hand, as stated, they could've spent most of their time on that barstool, buried in that phone, not being proactive, positive, nor outgoing, acting like princesses, seeking only to do the deed and get paid, then quickly blowing it on booze, drugs, gambling, tattoos, living in the moment. My wife and I know one such young lady, who I can't believe still has such terrible English after her years of work, while others who built a relationship with a foreigner BF fared much better. She scowls and looks <deleted> at the world whenever we see her passing through the moo ban, yet only has herself to blame.

[BritManToo]

On 8/16/2021 at 9:05 AM, Taboo2 said:

Karma is a bitch.....remember all those lonely souls they ripped off?  Well, sooner or later Karma was coming to get you....555555

Can't say I've ever been ripped off by a bar girl.

My experiences with them have been entirely worth the surprisingly small expense.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

What you are describing is an ATM which is what the foreign men end up being

Up to oneself what one chooses to be.... but we all know Thai ladies will be looking for money. If some man is so dumb as to allow himself to be used this way his look out.... many relationships have more depth to them.

Edited August 17, 2021 by jacko45k

[morrobay]

3 hours ago, The Cipher said:

This doesn't surprise me at all.

 

My curiosity is more about what the foreign husband finds appealing about that arrangement. If they're happy then that's great. But the idea of marrying a former bargirl and raising someone else's kid isn't something that resonates with me at all, and so I'm just trying to broaden my horizons by reading the perspectives of others.

 

[Dont confuse me]

18 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I'm aware of the definition; I was just clarifying the legal situation regarding prostitution in Thailand.  Like in the UK, the actual act of paying someone for sexual services is not illegal in Thailand, unless the provider is underage, coerced, or it takes place in a brothel etc.  It's why the barfine system was introduced.  No money for "services" should be exchanged until the client and provider are somewhere private.  So technically prostitution is not illegal in Thailand, although many aspects surrounding it are.  Hope this helps.

Sorry absolutely no help whatsoever go argue it in court! 

[brewsterbudgen]

1 minute ago, Dont confuse me said:

Sorry absolutely no help whatsoever go argue it in court! 

No need.  People are not taken to court in Thailand for 'paying for', or 'being paid for', sexual services in private.   They can be for soliciting, promoting or running a brothel, paying for or providing underage or coerced sexual services.  In fact, paying for sex is pretty much part of Thai culture!

[3NUMBAS]

the pimps kept em poor ,pre 90s not many had pimps whereas now they all got pimps so pimps take all their earnings and leave em skint

[NanaSomchai]

8 hours ago, BTB1977 said:

Most are too lazy to put in the effort of making money from internet customers.  They are use to the customers coming to them . Thats why they chose that work. 

Which brings us up back at the very start of this thread/conversation, properly titled "Thailand sex workers left struggling" asking themselves if they'll ever be able to fleece tourists ever again?

 

That is all they are complaining about.

 

That is what the core of the article is all about, it isn't about "how can we reinvent ourselves? how can we seize this pandemic as an opportunity to call for a progressive change? how can give a good attempt at reinventing the wheel?", it's none of that.

 

It's "How the taxi mafia can retain very little control it has over Uber and competitors so we can keep scamming tourists?", "How can your typical bargirl/mamasan/barowner can keep fleecing the tourists with excessive and unnecessary barfines so we can keep milking those idiot farangs over and over?", "How can we change the property laws a tidbit to make sure foreigners invest in overpriced poorly maintained condominiums to keep the cash flow pouring into our flawed economy?", "How can we revoke visas, add unnecessary loopholes and extensive requirements to retirement visas etc, so we can milk those foreigners for even more money?", etc, etc, etc...

 

The country hasn't progressed an inch over the past 40 years; it is still all about 1% of the population the "Hi-So" living it up in Bangkok hirise condos while the other 99% rest are struggling either in the sex trade industry or in the rice fields.

 

The country will never change as long as it's coups after coups; corruption after corruption self elected officials and of course scams towards foreigners scam after scam after scam.

 

They had one very tiny slim chance at change two years ago with the election, they dissolved the Future Forward party to make sure this would NEVER happen again,  this country is fubar'ed beyond repair.

 

My only advice as a foreigner is; fly in, empty your testicles, fly out. There's nothing else waiting for us here nor there will ever be.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by NanaSomchai

[Broken Record]

3 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

Which brings us up back at the very start of this thread/conversation, properly titled "Thailand sex workers left struggling" asking themselves if they'll ever be able to fleece tourists ever again?

 

That is all they are complaining about.

 

That is what the core of the article is all about, it isn't about "how can we reinvent ourselves? how can we seize this pandemic as an opportunity to call for a progressive change? how can give a good attempt at reinventing the wheel?", it's none of that.

 

It's "How can the taxi mafia can retain very little control it has over Uber and competitors so we can keep scamming tourists?", "How can your typical bargirl/mamasan/barowner can keep fleecing the tourists with excessive and unnecessary barfines so we can keep milking those idiot farangs over and over?", "How can we change the property laws a tidbit to make sure foreigners invest in overpriced poorly maintained condominiums to keep fleecing them?", etc, etc...

 

The country hasn't progressed an inch over the past 40 years; it is still all about 1% of the population the "Hi-So" living it up in Bangkok hirise condos while the other 99% rest are struggling either in the sex trade industry or in the rice fields.

 

The country will never change as long as it's coups after coups; corruption after corruption self elected officials and of course scams towards foreigners after scam.

 

They had one very tiny slim chance at change two years ago with the election, they dissolved the Future Forward party to make sure this would NEVER happen again,  this country is fubar'ed beyond repair.

 

My only advice as a foreigner is; fly in, empty your testicles, fly out. There's nothing else waiting for us here nor there will ever be.

 

And those are the reasons you are not in Thailand ?

[Broken Record]

2 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

the pimps kept em poor ,pre 90s not many had pimps whereas now they all got pimps so pimps take all their earnings and leave em skint

What a crock of <deleted>, have you ever been here ?

 

[NanaSomchai]

1 minute ago, Broken Record said:

And those are the reasons you are not in Thailand ?

Precisely; left as soon as the COVID-19 thing blew over with no regrets.

 

Until there's a strict reform of how they treat us at the Jomtien immigration office and how the Banglamung Land Office improves it's seriousness and it's command of the English language usage, they are not seeing one extra single baht from me.

 

Nada, zero, zlitch.

 

Not 1 baht.

 

[Broken Record]

10 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I'm surprised we haven't read stories about all the dead "kwai" littering the rice fields of Isaan, as they haven't been getting the medicine that all those girls in all those bars over all those years have said they needed !

 

I'm sure someone will make some stories up soon.