Neo Pattaya: The manicured shape of things to come? - as huge tree is ripped out

[Ralf001]

3 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

All vegetation in Thailand probably grows at 10x the speed of your English gardens, so hacking it away from time to time doesn't hurt that much.

It amazes me how often the Mia Noi needs to trim back her nether regions compared to the white wife.

[RJRS1301]

5 hours ago, supersomchai said:

It seems the mayor of pattaya

hasn’t a clue what 

the locals or tourists really want of their seafront.

Did he ever ask them…..does he care 

……from 25 years of looking at pattaya i would say ,it seems the locals and tourists flock to the shade of the trees ….guess he never noticed this

☹️☹️☹️

 

 

Surely you are not suggesting "community consultation"". 

That would take organisation, listening and recording skills, collating the information into several streams, examination of those streams.

Too much trouble, I'll the relatives in tree sales, tile supplies, and maybe even the family plumber, they will know.

 

[Gandtee]

2 hours ago, JensenZ said:

All vegetation in Thailand probably grows at 10x the speed of your English gardens, so hacking it away from time to time doesn't hurt that much.

But digging the roots up can impede growth a trifle.????

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, supersomchai said:

It seems the mayor of pattaya

hasn’t a clue what 

the locals or tourists really want of their seafront.

Did he ever ask them…..does he care 

……from 25 years of looking at pattaya i would say ,it seems the locals and tourists flock to the shade of the trees ….guess he never noticed this

☹️☹️☹️

 

 

There's no money to be made from the shade trees. Perhaps the flashy new promenade will attract rich people that the usual suspects can benefit from.

[Screaming]

Its all about money in Thailand, the trees are in the way of parking spots. Whats more important than parking spots for the horde of buses carrying Chinese. It's enough to make me scream.

[JensenZ]

On 8/20/2021 at 8:45 AM, Gandtee said:

But digging the roots up can impede growth a trifle.????

Not always.

[olfu]

Luckily for me nobody trying to remodel my favored Pattaya soi6.

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, olfu said:

Luckily for me nobody trying to remodel my favored Pattaya soi6.

Really.... there seemed to be some changes in operation around there pre-Covid. 

[Harsh Jones]

On 8/18/2021 at 4:22 AM, Gold Star said:

Nice new palm trees, but what about the stench of the raw sewage flooding into Pattaya Beach during rains?

That isn't raw sewage. It is street runoff. Happens everywhere at beaches around the world. The street runoff has to go somewhere. Pattaya tests its water for bacteria just like everywhere else.

 

What they NEED to do is cover up these drains or run a new pipe further out. So that its not this big eye sore. And so people will stop making a big deal out of it and claiming that Pattaya beach is uniquely wreched.

 

One of the most expensive infrastructure projects Pattaya ever did was the water treatment plants. Yet it doesn't stop people from spreading this myth that raw sewage from all the hotels is being dumped directly in the beach.

 

This video blogger had a reasonable take

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Harsh Jones

[Harsh Jones]

On 8/19/2021 at 4:20 PM, jacko45k said:

For many many years there used to be a flow of raw sewage over the beach into the sea on the North end of Pattaya Beach, that you had to jump over... I guess it went into a pipe....second Rd had an open channel stinking in the heat... but that pumping station and the stench has been there many many embarrassing years. Along with the work going on there. 

Its not an easy task dealing with the water in a beach side city. These issues are not unique to Pattaya beach. It is always a work in progress.

 

 

Just for some context:

https://www.bhg.com.au/terrigal-beach-bacteria-contamination

 

A new report has revealed that one of the best-known NSW beaches, Terrigal Beach on the New South Wales Central Coast, suffers from dangerous levels of human faeces every time it rains.

[Gold Star]

2 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

That isn't raw sewage. It is street runoff. Happens everywhere at beaches around the world. The street runoff has to go somewhere. Pattaya tests its water for bacteria just like everywhere else.

 

What they NEED to do is cover up these drains or run a new pipe further out. So that its not this big eye sore. And so people will stop making a big deal out of it and claiming that Pattaya beach is uniquely wreched.

 

One of the most expensive infrastructure projects Pattaya ever did was the water treatment plants. Yet it doesn't stop people from spreading this myth that raw sewage from all the hotels is being dumped directly in the beach.

 

This video blogger had a reasonable take

 

 

No, it is in fact raw sewage mixed with surface water runoff.  It happens when the ground becomes flooded in a storm, and the water flows down from the surface into the septic tanks through the loose fitted pipes and top covers and then flushes the contents of the sewage waste up and out.

I lived in a house on Jomtien Beach built in the same manner as Pattaya Beach, and the entire neighbourhood flooded often. Sewage waste even came up through our main floor house drains, as well as outside from the covers of the oozing septic tanks, and then the smelly mixture flowed down the street to flood the beach road.  People would walk through it in sandals and bare feet, oblivious to the bacteria in it. We would have to use a lot of bleach to get rid of the stench from the all the neighbours houses and sewage tanks overflowing uphill from us. The plants loved it, bursting with growth a couple days after.

Eventually we couldn't stand it anymore and moved away to a hilltop house.

[morrobay]

On 8/20/2021 at 2:10 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

There's no money to be made from the shade trees. Perhaps the flashy new promenade will attract rich people that the usual suspects can benefit from.

Sho nuff this bs kickback glorified road project that is taking the waterfront to ruin is going to transform pattaya into Monte Carlo.

[johng]

7 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

One of the most expensive infrastructure projects Pattaya ever did was the water treatment plants.

The treatment plant on Soi Wat Boon in Jomtien..dry as a bone not treating anything.

[Harsh Jones]

52 minutes ago, johng said:

The treatment plant on Soi Wat Boon in Jomtien..dry as a bone not treating anything.

So you think this picture means that all the hotels and condos across Pattaya are running most of their raw sewage into the beach ?

 

This is what I mean. And someone will post this in a local Facebook group and get a bunch of likes for it.

 

Do you know how high the bacteria count would be in the beach if this were true ?

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Harsh Jones

[Harsh Jones]

 

The city releases street runoff when the levels get too high. It is not feces being diverted into the beach. Does this mean there's a zero percent chance that some feces gets into the street runoff ? No. Street runoff is not clean. They have a system and they use it. And sometimes the water gets too dirty and the beach gets closed. This happens in Australia too. But you don't see people avoiding those beaches entirely because there's a rumor going around that raw sewage gets pumped into the beach.

 

This was on June 4 2020

Pattaya mayor responds to video showing black water gushing into the sea next to Walking Street

With Pattaya’s beaches reopening this week, for the first time since they were closed in March, there is still concern about what the City’s officials are pumping into the Gulf of Thailand off the Pattaya coast. Last Monday, filthy black water was seen gushing into the Gulf of Thailand right next to Pattaya’s famous Walking Street. The video, from the ‘We Love Pattaya’ Facebook page showed filthy water pouring into the sea from a pumping station near the entrance.

 

Pattaya’s mayor tried to explain away the video, saying it wasn’t sewage but muddy storm runoff, intentionally released into the sea rather than remain on the streets to flood homes and businesses.

 

“All wastewater is sent via different pipes to sewage treatment plants.”

 

“Usually storm runoff is channelled through filters to remove trash and debris, but in times of heavy rainfall, the system can’t keep up and water backs up and floods homes. In that case city engineers have the option to open filter gates and allow rainwater to run directly into the sea.”

He insisted the dark colour of the water was sand and sediment, and not sewage.

 

But in late May, tourists were warned not to swim in Pattaya, especially off the Na Chom Thian beach, after the coastal waters in the area turned black and emitted a foul smell, reportedly from untreated waste water. The Pattaya City administration issued an order temporarily suspending swimming in the sea near Pattaya until officials found the source of the effluent and fixed it.

 

Yesterday the scenes at Bang Saen Beach, further up the Chon Buri coast, were teeming with people.

https://thethaiger.com/news/pattaya/pattaya-mayor-responds-to-video-showing-black-water-gushing-into-the-sea-next-to-walking-street

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Harsh Jones

[johng]

14 minutes ago, Harsh Jones said:

“All wastewater is sent via different pipes to sewage treatment plants.”

Except to the one on Soi Wat boon Jomtien ?  

and where are all the other treatment plants ???

 

26 minutes ago, Harsh Jones said:

Do you know how high the bacteria count would be in the beach if this were true ?

I have no idea how high it is and expect no one else knows !

because I suspect that they only go and "test" the water after someone posts about dirty water on a facebook page...if there is some publicly accessible  regularly updated water quality data for the Pattaya beach area water I've never seen it but would welcome a link to any data you have about it.

 

21 minutes ago, Harsh Jones said:

Does this mean there's a zero percent chance that some feces gets into the street runoff ?

Have you seen the way the waste water pipes are run in many especially older places in Pattaya ?   maybe a very small holding tank and then overflow straight into the street runoff pipes  which go where ???

[Harsh Jones]

1 hour ago, johng said:

Except to the one on Soi Wat boon Jomtien ?  

and where are all the other treatment plants ???

 

I have no idea how high it is and expect no one else knows !

because I suspect that they only go and "test" the water after someone posts about dirty water on a facebook page...if there is some publicly accessible  regularly updated water quality data for the Pattaya beach area water I've never seen it but would welcome a link to any data you have about it.

 

Have you seen the way the waste water pipes are run in many especially older places in Pattaya ?   maybe a very small holding tank and then overflow straight into the street runoff pipes  which go where ???

Quote

I have no idea how high it is and expect no one else knows !

That is just ludicrous. Pattaya is a municipality with a beach. Municipalities have a routine for testing their water. The beach gets closed when bacteria levels get too high. And this happens at beaches all over the world. And beaches get closed periodically all over the world. A simple Google search attests to this.

 

You would never believe the water data anyway. 

 

 

Quote

Have you seen the way the waste water pipes are run in many especially older places in Pattaya ?   maybe a very small holding tank and then overflow straight into the street runoff pipes  which go where ???

As I was saying, its not zero percent. But you think its different in Brazil ? or Hawaii ? Or Australia ?  Do you think they don't have any older places ? Or filthy street runoff ?

 

I have been to beaches all over the world and they all have the same problems. Yet there's this myth that keeps going around Pattaya that the beach is uniquely dirty.  To the point where some people refuse to swim in it. They really believe that the corporate hotel chains are just flooding the beach with their sewer.

[johng]

 

 

8 minutes ago, Harsh Jones said:

You would never believe the water data anyway.

So do you have a link to those published figures for Pattaya bay sea water quality ?

 

Any thoughts on why the water treatment plant I pictured above has not been used for years...where has all the sewage that should have been treated there gone to ?

 

[jacko45k]

39 minutes ago, Harsh Jones said:

I have been to beaches all over the world and they all have the same problems. Yet there's this myth that keeps going around Pattaya that the beach is uniquely dirty.  To the point where some people refuse to swim in it. They really believe that the corporate hotel chains are just flooding the beach with their sewer.

I have a pal with a condo that overlooks Jomtien Beach... at various times of day, usually early, you can see stains spreading into the sea. likely from pipes that go well out. I expect it is a nightly release thing..... 

If this is not true, where is it all going?  You seem to supply more denial than answers.

[KarenBravo]

The important thing is that the spirit in the tree was removed first before cutting it down.

 

Similar thing in Phuket. The governor, just before his departure ordered the cutting down of all the mature poinsettia trees along the main artery road from the central divide.

Then had them all replaced by palms at 10k each. He then promptly retired. The palms were supplied by his brother.

[Harsh Jones]

13 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I have a pal with a condo that overlooks Jomtien Beach... at various times of day, usually early, you can see stains spreading into the sea. likely from pipes that go well out. I expect it is a nightly release thing..... 

If this is not true, where is it all going?  You seem to supply more denial than answers.

This is not the first time i have heard that story. Its a popular one. People look for it.

 

The reality is, its most likely treated water being discharged. Or street runoff holdings. Just like they do at any other beachside city. You have no way of verifying what  it is.

 

Before the water treatment plant was installed before 2000, the water really was dirty. And that is where all of these stories came from.

 

Not to mention that individual hotels also have their own water treatment facilities.

 

The Royal Cliff Beach Resort was the first individual business in
Pattaya to build its very own wastewater treatment facility to combat harmful
effects of water pollution. Other measures were also taken to make
environmental concerns a top priority amongst the employees at the resort,
paving the way for the resort to become the very first in Thailand to achieve the
ISO 14001 environmental certification.

https://www.iccaworld.org/cnt/files/RCBR CSR for web.pdf

Edited August 26, 2021 by Harsh Jones

[Harsh Jones]

13 hours ago, johng said:

 

 

So do you have a link to those published figures for Pattaya bay sea water quality ?

 

Any thoughts on why the water treatment plant I pictured above has not been used for years...where has all the sewage that should have been treated there gone to ?

 

Can you verify that the water treatment plant in Pattaya has been abandoned ? Just a random picture on the internet isn't going to cut it.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Harsh Jones

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

This is not the first time i have heard that story. Its a popular one. People look for it.

Seen it myself...... you need to take a look. If you believe sewage is not going into the sea along the Eastern seaboard you might suggest where it all goes. 

 

I have stayed in a few hotels in the Pattaya area and not come across any sewage treatment plants in them. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by jacko45k

[morrobay]

5 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

This is not the first time i have heard that story. Its a popular one. People look for it.

 

 

The people who live /have lived in Jomtien have seen this band of black water about 50 m offshore even during dry season. Most noticable from upper floors and in morning. So it's a fact Jack. And the popular stories you have heard are true, and I would assume you have not been to Jomtien much to have missed this.

Edited August 26, 2021 by morrobay

[morrobay]

On 8/18/2021 at 2:25 PM, newnative said:

Yes to planting shade trees--everywhere, not just Beach Road.  No to removing a single tree anywhere, unless it is in some way a hazard.

So you seem to be an expert on tourism demographics. Is this project going to have any effect on tourist numbers and if so what kind of tourists would that be? My idea about this is it's going to cause many tourist just not returning. And these days the endless supply of one time visitors to compensate for non returners . is not a given .

[Ralf001]

9 minutes ago, morrobay said:

So you seem to be an expert on tourism demographics. Is this project going to have any effect on tourist numbers and if so what kind of tourists would that be? My idea about this is it's going to cause many tourist just not returning. And these days the endless supply of one time visitors to compensate for non returners . is not a given .

Doubt it would deter the sex pests from coming.

[johng]

6 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

Can you verify that the water treatment plant in Pattaya has been abandoned ?

If you tell me where the water treatment plant/s in Pattaya are I'll go and have a look.

 

7 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

Just a random picture on the internet isn't going to cut it.

The picture I posted above is my own photograph of the treatment plant on

Soi "Wat Boon" in Jomtien not  "just a random picture on the internet"

 

Here seen from space.

 

 

I don't know if this one plant is supposed to take care of the whole of Jomtien and Pattaya's sewage but highly doubt it is capable of that job, and in any case it is seems not  being used at all to treat sewage,I have looked a few times and those round tanks where always empty, it is not abandoned and suspect it is just used for pumping water out to sea.

 

I  remember reading that in the last couple of years they had problems and dug up the soi Wat Boon to install massive pipes along the road ( out to the sea ? ) and that in Pattaya bay they also installed  pipes  stretching out to sea for 1 kilometer  this was during a previous beach "upgrade"

 

 

[Harsh Jones]

4 hours ago, morrobay said:

The people who live /have lived in Jomtien have seen this band of black water about 50 m offshore even during dry season. Most noticable from upper floors and in morning. So it's a fact Jack. And the popular stories you have heard are true, and I would assume you have not been to Jomtien much to have missed this.

If it wasn't primary treated water, you'd see more than just "stains". There would be solids literally floating on the surface.

 

What you are seeing is either primary or secondary treated water or street runoff. Not "raw sewage". And there is nothing unique about this. Street runoff and sewage water eventually gets to the ocean. Its not trucked away somewhere.

 

Excerpt : San Diego also discharges sewage directly into the water only after “primary” treatment—a preliminary step that mainly only filters out the “solids.” Sydney, Australia, which hosted the summer games in 2000, also has several outfalls that rely on primary treatment alone. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/03/what-happens-when-theres-sewage-in-the-water/476013/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Harsh Jones

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/26/2021 at 2:37 PM, Harsh Jones said:

“Usually storm runoff is channelled through filters to remove trash and debris, but in times of heavy rainfall, the system can’t keep up and water backs up and floods homes. In that case city engineers have the option to open filter gates and allow rainwater to run directly into the sea.”

 

Is he trying to say that heavy rainfall is an unusual occurrence in Pattaya?

Does he even believe the things that come out of his mouth?

[newnative]

3 hours ago, morrobay said:

So you seem to be an expert on tourism demographics. Is this project going to have any effect on tourist numbers and if so what kind of tourists would that be? My idea about this is it's going to cause many tourist just not returning. And these days the endless supply of one time visitors to compensate for non returners . is not a given .

    I really don't see how planting shade trees will deter tourists from coming.  "Oh, my God!  They've planted shade trees!  Let's cancel our trip!"  Shade trees, and not just palms, would be a plus on Beach Road, in my opinion.  Variety is the spice of life. 

   The city is starting to bury all the overhead wires on some of the major roads.  With the wires buried, trees can now grow on these streets and not have to be severely trimmed like they used to when they reached the wires. 

    These now wireless roads would be more attractive--and walkable--with shade trees.  And, again, not just palms.  My Thai partner has told me several times about the flowering trees with purple blossoms that were planted years ago on some of the streets.  He remembered them being so beautiful when he visited Pattaya.   You can still see some of these trees but many have died--it would be nice if the ones that have died were replaced and added to.