Poll -- Is the novel dead (to you)?

[blazes]

I confess that, these days, if a novel does not "grab" me by page 100 max, I toss it aside (literally).

The only thing I admire about writers like Lee Child or Grisham (and all too many like that) is their bank account.  Reading Reacher/Grisham/Coban is a bit like eating forbidden candy which, if taken in large doses, will inevitably read to intellectual diabetes.

 

The condition of the modern "novel" is in fact getting worse and worse.  Random House has announced that budding novelists should aim to submit manuscripts that are (what many on this thread might call) Woke.  That is, the prospective novels should reflect horrific Pravda-esque content that has a certain proportion (equity and "diversity" of characters that are black, brown, female, disabled etc etc...

 

Of course, I refer only to the kinds of novels that win the Booker Prize but which nobody ever reads.  Ironically, the publishing houses continue to make most of their money from macho male characters like Reacher and other triumphant paragons of testosterone.

It's the politics of novel-writing and publishing that is nowadays more interesting than the actual novels released.

[Jingthing]

Here's another way to measure the decline.

 

When I was growing up it was a recognized cultural thing for some young people to dream of one day writing the great American novel or fill in your nationality blank. 

 

I would bet the house that's much much more rare now.

 

Today it would be more like dreaming of being a great youtuber, Instagram creator, or Podcaster.

 

A funny and I think true thing I heard to explain the popularity of podcasts especially with younger people.  Because you listen to those while doing other things!

Edited September 6, 2021 by Jingthing

[cmarshall]

47 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Both fiction and non fiction will last as long as mankind has an open mind, and maintains it's curiosity. I do have friends who refuse to read books. And my heart goes out to them. Literacy is an amazing and beautiful thing. There is way more than a lifetime of wonderful stuff to read out there. Since I have discovered both Library Genesis - http://libgen.rs and Z Library, https://en.book4you.org I have downloaded hundreds of books, magazines, etc. Amazing. 

Reading makes a person smarter.  I know the non-readers take umbrage at that observation, but I'll stand by it.

 

You can always tell a person who gets his news from the TV, because he reacts more to personalities than policies or history.  Also, readers tend to speak in whole paragraphs while non-readers, of which the most egregious examples are G. W. Bush and Trump, can barely manage a complete sentence.

[hotchilli]

Couldn't see a button for reading my bank book?

[blazes]

9 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Reading makes a person smarter.  I know the non-readers take umbrage at that observation, but I'll stand by it.

 

You can always tell a person who gets his news from the TV, because he reacts more to personalities than policies or history.  Also, readers tend to speak in whole paragraphs while non-readers, of which the most egregious examples are G. W. Bush and Trump, can barely manage a complete sentence.

And here you are "reacting to personalities"!!!  To be fair, you should of course have added Mr Joseph Biden when he is away from his teleprompter or unable to understand what the prompter in the backroom is feeding into his left ear.

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

I read some novels but not that many.

 

Problem is that if people know you like reading they try to dump garbage novels like ' The Da Vinci Code ' or ' The Beach ' on you and expect you to read and rave about them.

 

I have read all Conrads works and Mark Twains but as a rule I prefer first hand eye witness history books. The Plague by Albert Camus was very good and of course , currently topical , but I don't have a copy here to re read.

Duh Vicki Code?  Wat Daht?

Duh Beach? Wat Daht?

 

Conrad was not an English writer, although he did write English novels.

 

Twain didn't even use his real name, so ashamed was he.

 

If you want a good read, then why not read novels in French?

Candide, as you say, might be currently topical.

 

If you prefer a new translation of an old novel:

Then, there is always Crime and Punishment, translated by Katz.

Or, you might do better by not reading this much-acclaimed new translation.

 

Typhoon, is amazing. Yet, Heart of Darkness is too dark.

 

Personally, I love Raskolnikov, and who can even get enough of him?

 

For Young People:  Then they should read about Youngblood Hawke, slaving away in the coal mines.

 

Mark Twain, as a rule, still rules. Born under a bad star, very few writers of English novels can compare.

 

Dostoevsky is a god. No writer can compare.

 

So unfortunate, however, that Dostoevsky gave insects a bad name. 

Unforgivable.

 

 

[Burma Bill]

An interesting question with replies. I used to be an avid reader of books, fiction and non-fiction, when I lived in Northern Thailand. Over time I built up a comprehensive collection, purchased from the second hand bookshops in Chiang Mai. Most of the novels were fictitious thrillers about British Intelligence all written by Colin Forbes. When I moved to Cambodia, most of my collection housed in 2 book cases I donated to the local ex-pat bar for others to enjoy. My railway books and a few other special selections, including Andrew Morton's block buster book about Princess Diana and Peter Wright's "Spycatcher" (MI5), the Australian edition as the UK one was banned, I sent to Cambodia via Thai Post. Remarkably, the latter two books I purchased from a ramshackle old wooden book shop for 50 baht each! 

[lordblackader]

14 hours ago, mahtin said:

Don't you find the kindle too small?

I had a 6.8 inch Kobo, but now use an 8 inch Fire tablet. Koreader app is adjustable for brightness, fonts etc. Works on kindle.

Hear you on a smaller device but you don't have to actually use a Kindle to access the Kindle Unlimited service. I've got a cheap Chinese Android tablet, 10.5-inches with the Kindle app installed and its just the right size.  

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Here's another way to measure the decline.

 

When I was growing up it was a recognized cultural thing for some young people to dream of one day writing the great American novel or fill in your nationality blank. 

 

I would bet the house that's much much more rare now.

 

Today it would be more like dreaming of being a great youtuber, Instagram creator, or Podcaster.

 

A funny and I think true thing I heard to explain the popularity of podcasts especially with younger people.  Because you listen to those while doing other things!

Excuse me, but did you mean doing "other less-than-Jing Things?"

[newnative]

      I've read all my life and I still love to read--almost always fiction.  I love mystery, detective, and suspense novels--both set in the present and historical.  I love the World War 2 period; I just finished Jackdaws by Ken Follett, one of my favorite authors.

      I especially like novels in a series as you get to know the main character and follow his or her life.  Some favorites are the Bosch series by Michael Connelly, the Harry Hole series by Jo Nesbo, the Thomas Lynley series by Elizabeth George, the Gabriel Allon series by Daniel Silva, the Alex Delaware series by Jonathan Kellerman, and the Lincoln Rhyme series by Jeffrey Deaver. 

[Aussieroaming]

I read online books sometimes, but only because I can download them. 

[GammaGlobulin]

The novel is not dead.

Neither is classical music dead.

It is only the West, some of whom, might be brain dead.

 

Classical music still exists in Asia.

The novel will still exist in Asia.

 

Don't worry about it, too much.

 

(Except, how long has the novel been in existence? Maybe 400 years?  Isn't 400 years long enough?)

Edited September 6, 2021 by GammaGlobulin

[GammaGlobulin]

Is a novelist the same thing as a paperback writer?

 

Is a paperback writer not almost the same thing as a YouTuber?

Edited September 6, 2021 by GammaGlobulin

[worgeordie]

I wonder if the youngsters of today read the classic works

from when i was young , Likes of Tom Sawyer, Robinson 

Crusoe , Gulliver's travels , Moby Dick , works of Thomas

Hardy , Jack London, Charles Dickens , Etc. they really stirred

my imagination , If not I feel very sad at what their missing .

stuck in their smart phones, or playing games on the Xbox.????.

Regards Worgeordie

 

[dundas]

I haven't read many novels this year so I suppose the novel isn't dead to me but it certainly has a lot of competition. 

 

I'm grateful that novels ask something of the imagination, and even that they take me away from the world I'm living in (lots of noise about politics and Covid, most of it from players with ulterior motives). As for the competition, Tim-tok and YouTube tend to be click bait for those of us (me included) with short attentions spans. I'm sure it works – it's addictive – but what kind of cognitive/emotional/spiritual nourishment it provides, I'm not so sure. Maybe just momentary entertainment and the possibility of a ker-ching! in the creator's pocket. Pretty empty, ultimately. 

 

I've noticed that the actual shape/form of the novel seems to be morphing. For example, Ocean Vuong's On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous – whether that is a  coming of age novel, a memoir, a kind of documentary into the how Vietnamese women survive in the US ... it's not totally clear cut. But in a way it reminded me of how YouTube and tiktok clips take the viewer from one idea to another, without pause. 

[Red Forever]

18 hours ago, Denim said:

Read hundreds of books. Mostly history but almost no novels. Why waste your time ? Truth is stranger then fiction. Novels titelate , history educates.

"Why waste your time?" Groan...

Snobbery or what?

[DefaultName]

I read SF & Fantasy, at least a book a week.  Do those qualify as novels?  On Kindle, I do love the feel of a real book, but Kindles are just so convenient.

Edited September 6, 2021 by DefaultName
Speeling

[Colabamumbai]

I write em, I read em. 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Denim said:

I read some novels but not that many.

 

Problem is that if people know you like reading they try to dump garbage novels like ' The Da Vinci Code ' or ' The Beach ' on you and expect you to read and rave about them.

 

I have read all Conrads works and Mark Twains but as a rule I prefer first hand eye witness history books. The Plague by Albert Camus was very good and of course , currently topical , but I don't have a copy here to re read.

I recently finished The Beach, again, and IMO it's as good as most. Certainly it's far superior to the movie.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

I wonder if the youngsters of today read the classic works

from when i was young , Likes of Tom Sawyer, Robinson 

Crusoe , Gulliver's travels , Moby Dick , works of Thomas

Hardy , Jack London, Charles Dickens , Etc. they really stirred

my imagination , If not I feel very sad at what their missing .

stuck in their smart phones, or playing games on the Xbox.????.

Regards Worgeordie

 

My author heroes of childhood were Tolkien and Arthur Ransome, with a liberal dose of science fiction added.

Rather un PC were Wallace's Sanders of the River books, but ripping good yarns for boys.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, blazes said:

I confess that, these days, if a novel does not "grab" me by page 100 max, I toss it aside (literally).

The only thing I admire about writers like Lee Child or Grisham (and all too many like that) is their bank account.  Reading Reacher/Grisham/Coban is a bit like eating forbidden candy which, if taken in large doses, will inevitably read to intellectual diabetes.

 

The condition of the modern "novel" is in fact getting worse and worse.  Random House has announced that budding novelists should aim to submit manuscripts that are (what many on this thread might call) Woke.  That is, the prospective novels should reflect horrific Pravda-esque content that has a certain proportion (equity and "diversity" of characters that are black, brown, female, disabled etc etc...

 

Of course, I refer only to the kinds of novels that win the Booker Prize but which nobody ever reads.  Ironically, the publishing houses continue to make most of their money from macho male characters like Reacher and other triumphant paragons of testosterone.

It's the politics of novel-writing and publishing that is nowadays more interesting than the actual novels released.

I may be unusual, but I read to be entertained, not have to wade through some boring tome written by an obscure Russian from last century.

Reacher does me just fine in that regard.

[AgMech Cowboy]

19 hours ago, pgrahmm said:

It's a cringe worthy moment when you discover you've already read the book you've just purchased....

Yep, I've done that twice.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

Yep, I've done that twice.

I've done it three times. However, I'm at an age where I forget what I read almost as soon as I reach the last page, so I can keep reading the same book as though it were a new read.

As for the 2 spare books, if I keep them long enough I'll be able to give them to someone as a Christmas present, along with the 2 spare CDs I bought of a Chris Rea album.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, pgrahmm said:

I selected the 5-10 button but it didn't register.....

Basically, with about 200 on the shelf I'm rereading some...I really should catalog them in a better effort to keep from duplicate copies....It's a cringe worthy moment when you discover you've already read the book you've just purchased....

My wife also has around 200 on her shelves....

Admittedly, we're not reading as much as in years past....

If one daughter has money in her pocket she'll head straight for the book vendor....

LOL. I read a Reacher book to the last chapter before I realised that I'd read it already. Still a good read though.

I do that a lot with DVDs as well.

 

I've taken to putting a post it note in the front of books I read to avoid repetition.

Edited September 6, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[1FinickyOne]

I think my taste has changed, probably due somewhat to a shorter attention span maybe?

 

I used to love Doestoyevsky and yet stuttered through Karamozov Brothers,,, which I had never read, and finally put down..

 

I did enjoy a shorter read by a young Vietnamese fellow - it was a bit raw and yet written w/a beautiful use of language... near poetic... 

 

but, I do admit to watching more serial dramas on Netflix... it just seems easier... and equally engrossing... Bolivar, Downton Abbey... etc..

[n00dle]

5 hours ago, Kinnock said:

I see .... fair point.  Although I think grammar and proper sentence construction is dead anyway, thanks to messaging apps.

That is ridiculous. Any professional.setting still has an expectation of proper grammar and sentence construction.

[zzaa09]

4 hours ago, Denim said:

I read some novels but not that many.

 

Problem is that if people know you like reading they try to dump garbage novels like ' The Da Vinci Code ' or ' The Beach ' on you and expect you to read and rave about them.

 

I have read all Conrads works and Mark Twains but as a rule I prefer first hand eye witness history books. The Plague by Albert Camus was very good and of course , currently topical , but I don't have a copy here to re read.

Appears that, of the "novel" class, the most adored are of historical fiction or realistic fiction genres. 

[1FinickyOne]

3 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Typhoon, is amazing. Yet, Heart of Darkness is too dark.

 

Personally, I love Raskolnikov, and who can even get enough of him?

 

Actually surprised to agree w/you - now Mr. Glob...

 

Loved Victory - Loved most Dostoeyevsky - The Idiot, my favorite... 

 

what about Oblomov, by Goncharov? 

[Tanomazu]

The novel is dead? You may want to tell John Grisham. Net worth 400 million USD.

 

https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/authors/john-grisham-net-worth/

[Moonlover]

I never watch TV and only view one programme a day that I download from the BBC. The rest of my entertainment is reading.

 

Yes I do like novels. Right now I'm working my way through Ken Follet's Kingsbridge trilogy that started with 'Pillars of the Earth'. I like historical fiction that interweaves facts with fiction and this is a fine example. It often sends me off into an internet search about the characters and the events of the time.

 

But I do read plenty of none fiction as well.