Acceptance and Recognition Of Astrazeneca(Thailand) By The UK

[danferguson]

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

So your saying that the AZ vaccines sent to Thailand Via Australia, Japan and even the UK were toyed with and changed once they arrived in Thailand is that what your trying to say?  No sure your on the same playing field with that train of thought.

No, that is not what I am saying.

I am sure the locally manufactured AZ vaccines are the same quality as AZ manufactured anywhere else, and the imported Pfizer/Moderna/Sinovac are the same as where they were manufactured.

I am saying that Thailand is the land of scams and forgeries, so how easy it would be to get a forged vaccine certificate??

There is also close to zero law enforecement in Thailand, so no-one is going to be stopping these forgeries being created and sold.

That is why the UK is not (yet) accepting vaccines ADMINISTERED in Thailand as valid. 

[Eff1n2ret]

13 hours ago, danferguson said:

There is also close to zero law enforecement in Thailand, so no-one is going to be stopping these forgeries being created and sold.

That is why the UK is not (yet) accepting vaccines ADMINISTERED in Thailand as valid. 

Blast it! I'll just have to get a forged EU certificate then....off to the Kao San Road....

[Exploring Thailand]

'Refusal to recognise vaccines given across Latin America, Africa and south Asia has been denounced as ‘discriminatory’

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/23/englands-covid-travel-rules-spark-outrage-around-the-world

 

Be good to hear @British Consular Team's position on this and to know whether they are lobbying the government to reconsider. 

[Havenstreet1940]

Theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/23/englands-covid-travel-rules-spark-outrage-around-the-world

 

Myself and many other living in Thailand who have received the Astrazeneca vaccine, I am sure, would appreciate to know if this article is UK government policy and what action is proposed by the Ambassador to address this outrageous policy.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Havenstreet1940

[jayboy]

This matter is fast becoming a scandal.Nobody blames the Ambassador and his staff but it is absolutely his responsibility or those to whom he delegates to communicate more clearly and more regularly with British residents on this matter.This is not happening.If there isn't a definite answer to be given yet then it is the Embassy's duty to explain what considerations are in play.If the concerns of British residents are not of pressing interest then the Embassy should also understand the requirements of the large number of Thais who have business and social ties to the UK.This muddle is doing the reputation of the UK no good at all. 

 

Jonathan Head of the BBC, in response to the Guardian article. correctly identifies the illogicality, stupidity and hypocrisy involved in the refusal to recognize Astra Zeneca vaccinations from Thailand.

 

"Agree this is completely illogical and seems discriminatory.Astra-Zeneca states that its vaccine is of identical quality wherever it is made - here in Thailand you might get locally made AZ or AZ from Korea - both have exactly the same efficacy"

55 minutes ago, Havenstreet1940 said:

Theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/23/englands-covid-travel-rules-spark-outrage-around-the-world

 

Myself and many other living in Thailand who have received the Astrazeneca vaccine, I am sure, would appreciate to know if this article is UK government policy and what action is proposed by the Ambassador to address this outrageous policy.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

The latest news is that UK will not recognise the validity of double vaccinated people from another country even thought the UK supplied the vaccine to that country!

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/england-covid-travel-rules-spark-050040502.html

 

And I also read last week that England will not require a "vaccine passport" to enter theatres / pubs / events, etc. but Scotland will.

 

Edit: note that para that says if you dome from a red country (Thailand) you have to travel to an amber country (if they will let you in) and then to UK and do the required quarantine and testing periods in both countries.

Edited September 23, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Havenstreet1940]

I have a further question for the British Embassy Bangkok.   Looking at the revised Grreen List and what was called the Amber List(Low Risk) countries such as Malaysia, Cambodia,Laos, Vitetnam and Myanmar all appear.

To ensure quarantine free visit to UK,  travellers from those coutries must be fully vaccinated.   However as Astrazeneca received in SE Asia is not to be recognised in the UK, travellers from those countries would still require to quarantine in either a hotel or at an address in the UK.    Makes no sense!

 

Thailand has been isolated.   Why?  what are we not being told here in Thailand?

Edited September 23, 2021 by Havenstreet1940

[jayboy]

13 hours ago, Havenstreet1940 said:

I have a further question for the British Embassy Bangkok.   Looking at the revised Grreen List and what was called the Amber List(Low Risk) countries such as Malaysia, Cambodia,Laos, Vitetnam and Myanmar all appear.

To ensure quarantine free visit to UK,  travellers from those coutries must be fully vaccinated.   However as Astrazeneca received in SE Asia is not to be recognised in the UK, travellers from those countries would still require to quarantine in either a hotel or at an address in the UK.    Makes no sense!

 

Thailand has been isolated.   Why?  what are we not being told here in Thailand?

Good luck in getting an answer.We can but live in hope.

 

Reading the UK press particularly the Guardian, it seems that the problem is not with Astra Zeneca but with the certification process.There is a very similar sense of outrage in India for the same reason.

[ThailandRyan]

Seems Canada is ok with the AZ Vaccine from elsewhere.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/ask-covid-astrazeneca-genx-side-effect-1.6003923

 

There are two different brands of the AstraZeneca shots for COVID-19 available in Canada: The AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccine, manufactured in the United States and elsewhere, and COVISHIELD, manufactured by Serum Institute of India. You don't need to worry about mixing them. They are interchangeable.

"Same recipe, same molecule, just different factories," said Dr. Don Sheppard, a medical microbiologist and director and founder of the McGill Interdisciplinary Initiative in Infection and Immunity in Montreal in a recent CBC News interview.

"Health Canada has evaluated the manufacturing process by both factories and said that they're identical." 

[Havenstreet1940]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

Good luck in getting an answer.We can but live in hope.

 

Reading the UK press particularly the Guardian, it seems that the problem is not with Astra Zeneca but with the certification process.There is a very similar sense of outrage in India for the same reason.

You are 'spot on'   According to an Indian Member of Parliment who says he has been told 'unoffficially' by a UK spokesperson it's not the vaccine that is the problem, it is the authenticity of the documentation.

 

If that is correct, unless the 'great minds of the UK Government cannot come up with a remedy, vaccinations of any vaccines received in Thailand will never be recognised.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Havenstreet1940

[Havenstreet1940]

One further thought on this subject.   If the lack of recognition is due to the question of authenticity of the vaccine documentation, could not the record of vaccination contained on the Ministry of Public Health Mor Prom App be the key to unlocking the impasse?  Or is there no trust from the UK of a Thai Government body?

[jayboy]

On 9/24/2021 at 11:57 AM, Havenstreet1940 said:

One further thought on this subject.   If the lack of recognition is due to the question of authenticity of the vaccine documentation, could not the record of vaccination contained on the Ministry of Public Health Mor Prom App be the key to unlocking the impasse?  Or is there no trust from the UK of a Thai Government body?

I don't think it's even that.My hunch is that while Thailand is on the red list there's no real urgency to find a solution, the usual bureaucratic sluggishness that's too endemic in the British civil service unless there is focused and imaginative management.It's the "computer says no" mentality.

 

However Thailand is but one of several countries affected and credit where credit is due, the new Ambassador seems an energetic and capable person and will keep the expatriate community informed.I would be surprised if we didn't have a way forward by the end of next month.

[Havenstreet1940]

10 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I don't think it's even that.My hunch is that while Thailand is on the red list there's no real urgency to find a solution, the usual bureaucratic sluggishness that's too endemic in the British civil service unless there is focused and imaginative management.It's the "computer says no" mentality.

 

However Thailand is but one of several countries affected and credit where credit is due, the new Ambassador seems an energetic and capable person and will keep the expatriate community informed.I would be surprised if we didn't have a way forward by the end of next month.

I agree with your premise regarding the Red List.   As regards your thouught/s on the new ambassador I think you are better placed than most to know the possible outcome.   I fully appreciate his hands are 'tied' in many ways, but the embassy  does itself no favours by 'isolating' itself from the British Community in Thailand.   They need to engage in a similar way that the Americans do with their outreach programme.

[blackcab]

On 9/21/2021 at 12:05 PM, ThailandRyan said:

How do you know where the vaccine you were injected with was made and how can you verify such an item.

 

The lot number of the vaccine is unique to the manufacturing facility.

 

So many people have asked the origin of their lots that the information is easily accessible on the internet.

 

For example, AstraZenica Covid-19 vaccine manufactured in Thailand has a letter "A" at the start of the lot number.

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

The lot number of the vaccine is unique to the manufacturing facility.

 

So many people have asked the origin of their lots that the information is easily accessible on the internet.

 

For example, AstraZenica Covid-19 vaccine manufactured in Thailand has a letter "A" at the start of the lot number.

4 responses for me, I do feel special.  Seems the glitch is back with double and triple posting s again...ugh

 

I have both lot numbers starting with a "D"

Edited September 26, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[beano2274]

sorry but the information about the LOT is incorrect, my Thai wife was vaccinated in Germany the LOT begins with the letter A, the second vaccination begins with the number 2.

 

 

[British Consular Team]

On 9/7/2021 at 1:02 PM, Havenstreet1940 said:

I would appreciate an update on on the progress of the subject matter please.    The UK Vaccine Minister as you will be aware told a debate in Parliament that a decision would most likely be announced recognizing the AZ vaccine made under licence in Thailand  by the end of August.   We are now 7 days into September and still no confirmation.

 

I am travelling  to the UK shortly and whilst there am hoping to attend a show in the West End and have been informed by the Theatre that I must have proof of an acceptable vaccination.  Additionally a restaurant, where I plan to take my family to celebrate ocassion, has also informed me that a similiar condition will apply.

 

My question is simply ' why the delay'

I am afraid we have no further updates. The UK is taking a phased approach to restarting international travel from other countries and is working to extend its approach to vaccinated passengers from other places.  

[AliG]

On 9/23/2021 at 1:51 PM, Exploring Thailand said:

'Refusal to recognise vaccines given across Latin America, Africa and south Asia has been denounced as ‘discriminatory’

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/23/englands-covid-travel-rules-spark-outrage-around-the-world

 

Be good to hear @British Consular Team's position on this and to know whether they are lobbying the government to reconsider. 

Can the British Ambassador to Thailand let us know if the vaccine that he and his embassy staff received in Thailand is approved by the UK government?

[Havenstreet1940]

3 hours ago, AliG said:

Can the British Ambassador to Thailand let us know if the vaccine that he and his embassy staff received in Thailand is approved by the UK government?

I received the following today.

 

I am afraid we have no further updates. The UK is taking a phased approach to restarting international travel from other countries and is working to extend its approach to vaccinated passengers from other places

[British Consular Team]

On 9/28/2021 at 11:08 AM, AliG said:

Can the British Ambassador to Thailand let us know if the vaccine that he and his embassy staff received in Thailand is approved by the UK government?

Hi AliG. The Consular team can answer this one for you. Yes, it is. HMG staff working overseas have access to the national COVID-19 vaccination programme in line with the prioritisation set by the UK. This is because as we have said on this forum before we have a duty of care to ensure staff and dependants overseas in the diplomatic network are vaccinated.  

 

On your second point, the UK government recognises it needs to consider how to treat British nationals who have been vaccinated overseas. Work is ongoing to determine which non-UK vaccines may be recognised. You can keep an eye on progress on this work here.  

[Havenstreet1940]

The AZ(Thailand) in the Press Release of 20 August 2021 contained the folllowing information within the content of the Release:

'We are also registering the brand name for the vaccine, Vaxzevria, around the world to provide additional clarity. The brand name Vaxzevria is already approved by the European Medicines Agency and many other countries'

In the UK Government advice contained in https://www.gov.uk/guidance/red-amber-and-green-list-rules-for-entering-england#new-rules  it quite clearly states that 'Formulations of the 4 listed vaccines, such as AstraZeneca Covishield, AstraZeneca Vaxzevria and Moderna Takeda, qualify as approved vaccines.

 

Therefore my question is why is there any doubt as to whether AZ Vaxevrria, aslo known in Thailand as AZ (Thailand0 is approved by the UK Government?

 

I am confused!!!!

 

Footnote: AZ have submitted an application to W.H.O. in early September 2021 for approval and expect a favourable outcome by year end.  And that's official not rumour!

Edited September 30, 2021 by Havenstreet1940

[Havenstreet1940]

I believe we, myself included may have confused two issues.The first one is Recognition of the AZ vaccine produced in Thailand and the second issue is where the vaccine was administered.  There is no doubt in my mind that the UK DOES recognise the vaccine produced in Thailand (see my thread above)

 

However the issue that requires to be resolved is the proving the authenticity of the documention of the country administering the vaccine.

 

Let's hope the powers that be can come up with a solution soon.

 

If I have come to the party late, I apologise.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Havenstreet1940 said:

I believe we, myself included may have confused two issues.The first one is Recognition of the AZ vaccine produced in Thailand and the second issue is where the vaccine was administered.  There is no doubt in my mind that the UK DOES recognise the vaccine produced in Thailand (see my thread above)

 

However the issue that requires to be resolved is the proving the authenticity of the documention of the country administering the vaccine.

 

Let's hope the powers that be can come up with a solution soon.

 

If I have come to the party late, I apologise.

That is my understanding too. It's a pity that the recent advice from the British Consular Team doesn't make it specifically clear that it's a certification issue.

 

My greater concern with the Consular advice is the wording, "working to extend its approach to vaccinated passengers from other places." This is a generic "line to take" comment that doesn't actually convey much information. I don't even understand what "to extend is approach" actually means. We are all very well aware that no answer can be given now and that it probably isn't even possible to provide an estimated likely time frame.But surely it would be possible to set out some general background on the criteria required.

[treetops]

14 hours ago, Havenstreet1940 said:

However the issue that requires to be resolved is the proving the authenticity of the documention of the country administering the vaccine.

More than just the documentation, it is being satisfied that the whole vaccination program, from procurement, handling and storage, distribution, record keeping etc etc meets satisfactory standards.  This is not the default position and some checks or proofs will be required.  I don't imagine this can be done quickly, and it will need the UK to lessen it's requirements or it will be some time before vaccinations administered under the Thai program will be acccepted.

[Havenstreet1940]

4 hours ago, treetops said:

More than just the documentation, it is being satisfied that the whole vaccination program, from procurement, handling and storage, distribution, record keeping etc etc meets satisfactory standards.  This is not the default position and some checks or proofs will be required.  I don't imagine this can be done quickly, and it will need the UK to lessen it's requirements or it will be some time before vaccinations administered under the Thai program will be acccepted.

I'm not unduly concerned as to whether they accept it or not.   My priority is to have Thailand removed from the UK Red List and then I can go home to UK.  Once there  I see no problem to enjoying my visit.   The vaccination certificate I have contains a QR Code icon which verifies from the MOPH that my vaccination paperwork is legit.  If you are suggesting that the UK would ever openly question the authenticity of verified MOPH documention etc, then we move to a political scenario and all that might entail.    Think about it.

[jayboy]

9 hours ago, treetops said:

More than just the documentation, it is being satisfied that the whole vaccination program, from procurement, handling and storage, distribution, record keeping etc etc meets satisfactory standards

Some of this is bound up with certification issues.But unless you have evidence to the contrary, I doubt whether scrutiny will extend to such matters as procurement, handling and storage.Thailand has an excellent medical infrastructure and is certainly not in the group of countries where delivery systems might be suspect.In short I doubt whether the whole Thai program needs to be checked.

[redsongthaew]

5 hours ago, Havenstreet1940 said:

My priority is to have Thailand removed from the UK Red List and then I can go home to UK.  Once there  I see no problem to enjoying my visit.

While you are in the UK, getting vaccinated again with a different vaccine is also an option. I know people who have done this so that they benefit from easier access to both countries. It's a very personal choice so I understand if this route is not for you.

[AliG]

On 9/30/2021 at 10:15 AM, British Consular Team said:

Hi AliG. The Consular team can answer this one for you. Yes, it is. HMG staff working overseas have access to the national COVID-19 vaccination programme in line with the prioritisation set by the UK. This is because as we have said on this forum before we have a duty of care to ensure staff and dependants overseas in the diplomatic network are vaccinated.  

 

On your second point, the UK government recognises it needs to consider how to treat British nationals who have been vaccinated overseas. Work is ongoing to determine which non-UK vaccines may be recognised. You can keep an eye on progress on this work here.  

So the vaccine that you and your staff received in Thailand is recognised by the UK yet the Pfizer vaccine I received in Thailand is not, discrimination there i think

[treetops]

18 hours ago, Havenstreet1940 said:

If you are suggesting that the UK would ever openly question the authenticity of verified MOPH documention etc, then we move to a political scenario and all that might entail.    Think about it.

Even if they accept the authenticity (a basic developer could rustle up a copycat in no time) that's not what's currently in question.  The UK Gov has said it is only accepting vaccines administered under approved programs.  Thailand's program is not approved.

 

 

13 hours ago, jayboy said:

Some of this is bound up with certification issues.But unless you have evidence to the contrary, I doubt whether scrutiny will extend to such matters as procurement, handling and storage.Thailand has an excellent medical infrastructure and is certainly not in the group of countries where delivery systems might be suspect.In short I doubt whether the whole Thai program needs to be checked.

It's not the vaccine going into arms that doesn't pass muster it's the vaccine program, which encompasses all stages including the actual jab.  The medical infrastructure is only part of that program and there are lots of areas where Thailand could well fall short.

[Havenstreet1940]

4 hours ago, treetops said:

Even if they accept the authenticity (a basic developer could rustle up a copycat in no time) that's not what's currently in question.  The UK Gov has said it is only accepting vaccines administered under approved programs.  Thailand's program is not approved.

 

 

It's not the vaccine going into arms that doesn't pass muster it's the vaccine program, which encompasses all stages including the actual jab.  The medical infrastructure is only part of that program and there are lots of areas where Thailand could well fall short.

Until I see your assertion in a written statement from the UK Government i.e Thailands vaccination programme is not approved, I will wait for an official response from The Attorney General who is the Member of Parliament for my home loction in UK..   If you have incontrivertible evidence of your assertions, please share, otherwise they are just your opinion!

 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Havenstreet1940