A negative aspect of Electric vehicles.

[kwonitoy]

23 hours ago, mavi said:

yes they are a scam, look at Tesla, replacement batteries after end of warranty are still so expensive, I would never buy one.

 

https://rechargd.com/how-long-will-tesla-car-battery-last/

 

Nonsense,  300,000 to 500,000 MILES for the Model 3

The battery pack will outlast the car.

Can't wait to move back to Canada and get a Model Y

[n8sail]

MG EP Battery - 8 Years or 160,000km warranty.

 

Pack is modular, you can just change one small brick of the battery if a cell goes bad (Unlike Tesla).

 

As a lithium chemistry battery declines in performance, they can be used for other things before complete tear-down and recycle, or disposal.  There are already companies re-using/re-purposing large lithium batteries for 'Power Walls' (Tesla's stupid marketing term for a battery in your house).   The performance needed for these types of storage is FAR less than a vehicle....  and can extend the useful life of a battery cell by many years.

 

Home-based batteries also help to solve the problem of grid-overloading if everyone in an area has an electric car...  distributed power is the way of the future.

 

But...  dinosaurs will be dinosaurs.  Keep burning them up!

I am going to be supremely <deleted> off if there is no true 95 octane benzene left when I retire and want to have a joyride in my V-8 muscle car or mid engine sports car, making amazing sounds, because of idiots needlessly burning rotten dinosaurs for every day usage.   There is a time and place for ICE engines...  large remote construction equipment, access to remote areas, boats needing high speed/power, sports cars, aeroplanes...  everyday commuting is NOT one of them any more.  Grow TF up people.

Edited September 20, 2021 by n8sail

[placeholder]

 

31 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

I agree with you, many different types of Lithium batteries, when you  take for example the 18650 batteries, average they stay long, but the batteries in my DJI drones worn out very quickly, but compete different types but both lithium.

HOW LONG SHOULD AN ELECTRIC CAR’S BATTERY LAST?

"The bottom line here is that if it’s properly cared for, an electric car’s battery pack should last for well in excess of 100,000 miles before its range becomes restricted. Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles, which is nearly 17 years of use if driven 12,000 miles per year."

https://www.myev.com/research/ev-101/how-long-should-an-electric-cars-battery-last

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, kwonitoy said:

https://rechargd.com/how-long-will-tesla-car-battery-last/

 

Nonsense,  300,000 to 500,000 MILES for the Model 3

The battery pack will outlast the car.

Can't wait to move back to Canada and get a Model Y

It's also the case that because an electric motor is much simpler and has far fewer parts, EVs should last a long longer than an ICE vehicle.

[Joinaman]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:34 AM, ozimoron said:

More damage is caused by CO2 pollution than a few electric cars burning.

The UK is crying out for more CO2 /

[PETERTHEEATER]

Shocking, I don't  know watt to say. If that's the current model it's  re volt ing.....

[sawadee1947]

On 9/18/2021 at 9:56 PM, sezze said:

Yes , lithium batteries can catch fire . They are the same batteries as used in your laptop , cellphone , electric tools .... . Battery technology is evolving , getting safer , more capacity , higher charge and discharge rates ...

Electric cars from a few years ago aren't the same like the cars sold now , and will not be the same in a few years also . Electric engines outperform any other kind of engine by multiple times in power/size , wear and tear , torque .

Yes there are a few cars going up in flames each year and due to more electric cars driving around there will be more fires . In general the event of that happening is rare , but it surely exists .

 

.....unless the hydrogenes are coming....or those by synthetic fuel made of CO2....Who would buy then EVs? Electricity is top expensive....

[Screaming]

I enjoy riding in my 2.5 V6 vehicle here in Thailand. No worries with trying to find a recharge station or worries involving battery fires.

[xtrnuno41]

Another negative aspect is, they use: 

 

The two mining companies operating in the Atacama, the Chilean firm SQM and their US counterpart Albemarle, pump up nearly 2,000 liters of brine per second. That’s the equivalent of pumping up 1,209 million liters of saltwater per week, or more than 63 billion liters per year.

Fresh water !

 

At the end again a catastrophic impact on environment.

It will not last long for cars to drive on electric, it is just a fase in making money.

SHELL already found away of converting CO2 into a fuel.

So wait for a while and we are back on combustion engines. Only then it should be more climate neutral. They are already working on storing CO2 in old wells. 

 

In the mean time, we send rich people for a joyride in space.

Building up more CO2 in our atmosphere and of course those rich ones dont care.

Ad i think to myself, what a wonderful world, o yeahhhhh

 

I still think, we should limit humans expansion. Too much people on this earth. Will AGI take care for this in future? 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by xtrnuno41
additional text

[sezze]

7 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

.....unless the hydrogenes are coming....or those by synthetic fuel made of CO2....Who would buy then EVs? Electricity is top expensive....

How much do you know about those technologies or chemistry ?

Hydrogen : a dream , since only water comes out , 100% reusable and unlimited supply . However there are a few problems . Superhigh compression needed , and limited fuel capacity . Hydrogen by itself is extremely light , so using 1kg of fuel ( hydrogen in this case ) is already taking up some serious space . Burning it in a normal combustion engine is possible , but you wont get far , since the weight/power issue and the bad efficiency of combustion engines .

The other option is much better , which is what some car makers are researching or driving around with . That is that you use your hydrogen in a fuel cell to make electricity and drive the electric motor . Great .... however small problem is that fuel cells so far can only be made by the use of a kinda special material named platinum . Unless they do find something new which works , there is no way that this technology is going to be cheaper as a battery vehicle .

Synthetic fuel made of CO2 :

Possible , yes . However the technology is going to come way too late . Remember that in many countries the roll out of combustion engines will soon be halted . This makes the synthetic fuel might be something for big ships , but people on the street will only have the choice of electric .

New types of batteries are already on the horizon , several of them not based on Lithium or Cobalt . Lithium will still be here for a while since the production facilities are running now or have just opened , and lithium is being refined faster then before ( prices dropping ) .

The batteries are now supposed to have a lifetime of 18y , which is longer then most people now use their cars . People can twist and turn however they want , the electric cars are coming and they will take over the market and it won't be long before they are cheaper then combustion engine cars ( taxes will be applied in many countries ) .

I am not talking about the "green" stuff , since this is open for discussion . Yes the electricity need to be produced and it might well be from a coal plant . Btw , the same goes for hydrogen since hydrogen now in industry is nearly always made by cracking methane . It can be done by electrolyses but this has very low efficiency and requires also a lot of power .

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

.....unless the hydrogenes are coming....or those by synthetic fuel made of CO2....Who would buy then EVs? Electricity is top expensive....

 

3 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Another negative aspect is, they use: 

 

The two mining companies operating in the Atacama, the Chilean firm SQM and their US counterpart Albemarle, pump up nearly 2,000 liters of brine per second. That’s the equivalent of pumping up 1,209 million liters of saltwater per week, or more than 63 billion liters per year.

Fresh water !

 

At the end again a catastrophic impact on environment.

It will not last long for cars to drive on electric, it is just a fase in making money.

SHELL already found away of converting CO2 into a fuel.

So wait for a while and we are back on combustion engines. Only then it should be more climate neutral. They are already working on storing CO2 in old wells. 

 

In the mean time, we send rich people for a joyride in space.

Building up more CO2 in our atmosphere and of course those rich ones dont care.

Ad i think to myself, what a wonderful world, o yeahhhhh

 

I still think, we should limit humans expansion. Too much people on this earth. Will AGI take care for this in future? 

 

It's a good thing that oil and gas production doesn't consume huge quantities of water and has a sterling record as regards pollution.

[ozimoron]

[Old Nomad]

According to the German insurer association (Gesamtverbands der Deutschen Versicherungswirtschaft (GDV) electric cars do not catch fire more often than cars with combustion engines. 
Source: https://www.next-mobility.de/brennen-e-autos-wirklich-leichter-a-1029962/

 

The statistics for electric cars in the US may differ.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Got a link for that?

Does this meme take any account for the projected life span of an EV vs an ICE vehicle?

Does it take account of the fact that by 2025 EVs are expected to reach purchase price parity with ICE vehicles?

Does it take account of what maintenance costs will be for the 6-10 year period?

 

[sezze]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Not the most equal comparison imho . Tesla by far not the cheapest electric car on the road . There are certainly cheaper electric cars on the market , but on the other hand it can be said also for the Toyota Camry ( i am well surprised how cheap that is over there but ok ) .

Electric cars can be charged at home and can use solar panels to fuel your electric car , unless you got a oil refinery in your garden , then this is never possible with petrol car . Many electric cars now have also the reverse charging option , meaning , you can use the battery of your car to power your home , like a powerwall . Also not possible with a combustion engine car .

Are electric cars cheaper , no not yet , they are more expensive , but the break even time 5y ago was not existent , while now it might already be there in a few cheaper electric cars . In a few years , buying a new car will have the same price for both and then it will be a lot cheaper for the electric one .

I do know a few people with electric cars , 3 with Tesla's ( btw 2 of them had issues in 1st months of having them , something Tesla absolutely don't like to see in the news anywhere ....) , a few with VW ID3 , 1 with a Kia ( 2nd electric car , he had a VW Golf E before ) . And there are a few more people at my work who ordered now Mercedes , VW , Polestar also ( leasing cars from work , my next gonna be like that also ) .

It might not all be good , remember , the VW Golf E from a only 5/6 years ago had a battery time of 150KM , ( yes thats around 100 miles ) while the same class of cars now got a real 400-500 km range ( 300 miles ) and can be charged faster .

The Tesla and Polestar got performance equal or faster then a Porsche ( 1 of the guys with the Tesla did have a 911 before it ) .

Regulations on combustion engines are getting more and more enforced , and while it might not be there with you , more and more places around the world are getting it . In Europe , there is supposed to be a ban on combustion engines from 2035 if im correct , and even Ferrari and Lamborghini did not get a go for keeping producing combustion engines

Like i said , you can twist and turn , but it is on it's way and like it or not . It does not mean your car right now have got to be electric , that is personal choice / financial restrains . But electric cars will take over the car market very fast .

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, sezze said:

How much do you know about those technologies or chemistry ?

Hydrogen : a dream , since only water comes out , 100% reusable and unlimited supply . However there are a few problems . Superhigh compression needed , and limited fuel capacity . Hydrogen by itself is extremely light , so using 1kg of fuel ( hydrogen in this case ) is already taking up some serious space . Burning it in a normal combustion engine is possible , but you wont get far , since the weight/power issue and the bad efficiency of combustion engines .

The other option is much better , which is what some car makers are researching or driving around with . That is that you use your hydrogen in a fuel cell to make electricity and drive the electric motor . Great .... however small problem is that fuel cells so far can only be made by the use of a kinda special material named platinum . Unless they do find something new which works , there is no way that this technology is going to be cheaper as a battery vehicle .

Synthetic fuel made of CO2 :

Possible , yes . However the technology is going to come way too late . Remember that in many countries the roll out of combustion engines will soon be halted . This makes the synthetic fuel might be something for big ships , but people on the street will only have the choice of electric .

New types of batteries are already on the horizon , several of them not based on Lithium or Cobalt . Lithium will still be here for a while since the production facilities are running now or have just opened , and lithium is being refined faster then before ( prices dropping ) .

The batteries are now supposed to have a lifetime of 18y , which is longer then most people now use their cars . People can twist and turn however they want , the electric cars are coming and they will take over the market and it won't be long before they are cheaper then combustion engine cars ( taxes will be applied in many countries ) .

I am not talking about the "green" stuff , since this is open for discussion . Yes the electricity need to be produced and it might well be from a coal plant . Btw , the same goes for hydrogen since hydrogen now in industry is nearly always made by cracking methane . It can be done by electrolyses but this has very low efficiency and requires also a lot of power .

Well, there is talk about converting green hydrogen to ammonia and using that as a fuel. That solves the density problem.

 

Ammonia—a renewable fuel made from sun, air, and water—could power the globe without carbon

https://www.science.org/news/2018/07/ammonia-renewable-fuel-made-sun-air-and-water-could-power-globe-without-carbon

 

New technique seamlessly converts ammonia to green hydrogen
Researchers leverage renewable electricity for widespread, distributed hydrogen fuel production

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201118141718.htm

[willi2006]

"From 2003 to 2007 in the United States, there were 280,000 car fires per year, which caused 480 deaths." Source: Vehicle fire

 

"Pro Jahr brennen rund 15.000 Autos auf Deutschlands Straßen ab. " Source: Fahrzeugbrand

Google translation: "Around 15,000 cars burn down on Germany's roads every year."

[LarrySR]

Imagine if battery powered cars were the norm the last 100 years and someone now is trying to convince you to go internal combustion.

 

Remove the battery and electric motor and just add a cast iron block with a crankshaft, pistons, valves, cams, oil pump, fuel injection, exhaust system, air filter, pollution control devices, radiator, thermostat, fan, water pump, $5,000 transmission that goes out at 150,000 miles, drive shaft, differential, ..and every couple hundred miles you have to go to a fuel station and pump 25 gallons of gasoline into a tank under your back seat!

Not to mention the pollution from 100 million barrels of oil burned up every day.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by LarrySR

[LarrySR]

3 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by LarrySR

[kwonitoy]

18 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Another negative aspect is, they use: 

 

The two mining companies operating in the Atacama, the Chilean firm SQM and their US counterpart Albemarle, pump up nearly 2,000 liters of brine per second. That’s the equivalent of pumping up 1,209 million liters of saltwater per week, or more than 63 billion liters per year.

Fresh water !

 

At the end again a catastrophic impact on environment.

It will not last long for cars to drive on electric, it is just a fase in making money.

SHELL already found away of converting CO2 into a fuel.

So wait for a while and we are back on combustion engines. Only then it should be more climate neutral. They are already working on storing CO2 in old wells. 

 

In the mean time, we send rich people for a joyride in space.

Building up more CO2 in our atmosphere and of course those rich ones dont care.

Ad i think to myself, what a wonderful world, o yeahhhhh

 

I still think, we should limit humans expansion. Too much people on this earth. Will AGI take care for this in future? 

 

I wouldn't worry about the ecology of the Atacama Desert, there isn't one. No plants, no insects, no animals, no rainfall

I have been to no other place on earth that would be less effected by pumping brine to sun dry and reap the minerals.

Literally no one is affected. Nobody lives there. 

Below is a photo of where I worked in my 4 months there when I helped build a pipeline from the Pacific Ocean 200 kms inland to bring in Salt Water for a mine.

 

I have never been in such a desolate place in my lifetime

Edited September 21, 2021 by kwonitoy

[Crossy]

Meanwhile https://cleantechnica.com/2021/09/19/gm-tells-bolt-owners-to-park-50-feet-away-from-other-cars-extends-ev-production-halt/

 

 

Quote

GM’s customer service was also lacking and one Bolt owner was on hold for almost an hour. Another one was worried about the safety of her home if her car were to have suddenly ignited, so GM offered her a 150-foot charging cable.

 

[macahoom]

1 hour ago, LarrySR said:

Imagine if battery powered cars were the norm the last 100 years and someone now is trying to convince you to go internal combustion.

 

Remove the battery and electric motor and just add a cast iron block with a crankshaft, pistons, valves, cams, oil pump, fuel injection, exhaust system, air filter, pollution control devices, radiator, thermostat, fan, water pump, $5,000 transmission that goes out at 150,000 miles, drive shaft, differential, ..and every couple hundred miles you have to go to a fuel station and pump 25 gallons of gasoline into a tank under your back seat!

Not to mention the pollution from 100 million barrels of oil burned up every day.

 

 

This!

[xtrnuno41]

3 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

I wouldn't worry about the ecology of the Atacama Desert, there isn't one. No plants, no insects, no animals, no rainfall

I have been to no other place on earth that would be less effected by pumping brine to sun dry and reap the minerals.

Literally no one is affected. Nobody lives there. 

Below is a photo of where I worked in my 4 months there when I helped build a pipeline from the Pacific Ocean 200 kms inland to bring in Salt Water for a mine.

 

I have never been in such a desolate place in my lifetime

It is about the immense amount of fresh water they need, that is pumped up and used to solve salts which contain the lithium. Eco system is effected then anyhow, although deep under ground. But as anything is connected in an eco system, somewhere further inland a problem can pop up, maybe even on total continent(South America).

 

 

[guzzi850m2]

https://thedriven.io/2021/09/15/the-staggering-cost-savings-from-driving-an-electric-vehicle/

[mavi]

On 9/19/2021 at 12:34 PM, mavi said:

yes they are a scam, look at Tesla, replacement batteries after end of warranty are still so expensive, I would never buy one.

 

 

Who doesn't understand this is an idiot !

Batteries price was supposed to be cheaper 7 years ago, They are not.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 9/21/2021 at 11:52 AM, LarrySR said:

Not to mention the pollution from 100 million barrels of oil burned up every day.

The  very same oil thats revolutionised your  life,  too  much slagging off  of  oil

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 9/21/2021 at 11:11 PM, guzzi850m2 said:

https://thedriven.io/2021/09/15/the-staggering-cost-savings-from-driving-an-electric-vehicle/

 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

The  very same oil thats revolutionised your  life,  too  much slagging off  of  oil

And the very same oil burned to charge his batteries...

[LarrySR]

7 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

The  very same oil thats revolutionised your  life,  too  much slagging off  of  oil

Thanks for parroting the oil & gas industry propaganda.