My wife's idea for our kids to avoid National Service / Army - Is it genius or flawed? :-)

[bbko]

11 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

What does YMMV mean? Another poster who thinks he/she is texting.

Your mileage may vary as in You may get different results.

[NoshowJones]

1 minute ago, Saltire said:

Ha I had to google it too

 

Your Mileage May Vary i.e. you may have a different opinion.

I don't mind initials being used for obvious things like IO immigration officer, but posters making up their own because they are too lazy to type??

[elgenon]

If your sons become ladyboys they don't have to serve. Something to consider? I wonder what the military would require as proof.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

As you may know, many Indians have been in Thailand for generations. These young Indians born here who I knew, I asked about their Thai citizenship and military service. They say they did neither. They'd been on dependent visas from their parents, and when they came of age went to India, staying the minimum time to avoid service, then came back.

 

I asked why? Their parents questioned its validity, the training, the marching around. As mentioned there's a lot of idling about during such, and many turn to drugs. Then there's the well publicized abuse, and becoming errand boys for the officers, washing cars, doing laundry. They said their parents felt Thai citizenship wasn't worth it, and after studying here will spend the rest of their lives abroad anyway.

 

As poorly as Thai degrees are considered internationally, one thing they do is provide a cheap method of fulfilling the requirement to pursue graduate studies at many universities abroad.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

I don't mind initials being used for obvious things like IO immigration officer, but posters making up their own because they are too lazy to type??

But they are not making up initials.

 

YMMV or ymmv has been around this forum for many years that I can remember.

 

If there is a word or some initials that I don't recognise, I left click and highlight it, right click to bring up the Search function. left click on Search, then Google will search for it and present you with some answers.

 

it saves time and posts.

 

 

[happy me]

As far as I'm aware if they do army cadets in school in M4-6 (high school) they avoid conscription.

[it is what it is]

29 minutes ago, happy me said:

As far as I'm aware if they do army cadets in school in M4-6 (high school) they avoid conscription.

there are several easy and legal ways to avoid conscription, of my thai friends, all educated professionals, non of them or their families have ever, or will ever, do national service.

[digger70]

5 hours ago, brianthainess said:

It may also do them a lot harm.

I would take the chance. It May or May not 

[digger70]

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

In normal countries I would agree with you.

 

Not in Thailand however.

 

In the south squaddies are being sent on patrol in un-armoured pickup trucks and on motorcycles. The Thai army got 60 of M1126 Stryker infantry fighting vehicles which are being polished to death as they are based in Bangkok, far away from the fighting in the south where they are really needed.

Maybe they think that the boys learn to fight better with no protection ,toughing them up a bit. any war/fight has casualties. Life/death doesn't mean much here.

[EricTh]

5 hours ago, elgenon said:

If your sons become ladyboys they don't have to serve. Something to consider? I wonder what the military would require as proof.

Hormone level and the breast

[bangon04]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:27 AM, surfinglife said:

Why would you support the idea of avoiding the military service? It makes men out of today's sissy boys.

In Thailand????  Is there a medal awarded for this?

[billd766]

3 hours ago, happy me said:

As far as I'm aware if they do army cadets in school in M4-6 (high school) they avoid conscription.

My son joined last year.

 

Because of Covid he lost 4 months of school last year and another 6 months this year.

 

I am wondering if the time lost will be taken into account or not.

2 hours ago, digger70 said:

wrong reply. Sorry.

 

[digger70]

37 minutes ago, billd766 said:

My son joined last year.

 

Because of Covid he lost 4 months of school last year and another 6 months this year.

 

I am wondering if the time lost will be taken into account or not.

 

Ok no probs.  ????

[billd766]

3 hours ago, digger70 said:

Maybe they think that the boys learn to fight better with no protection ,toughing them up a bit. any war/fight has casualties. Life/death doesn't mean much here.

Perhaps you think the same.

 

No modern army fights without protection for its troops other than the Thai army, who send their troops out in unarmoured pick up trucks and on motorcycles to protect teachers and government workers at the same time and place every day.

 

A good professional army is led by good officers from the front. When was the last time any officer above the rank of lieutenant or the odd captain was injured in the line of duty. When was the last time a senior officer was seen leading patrols from the front and was injured or killed?

 

Back in 1978 South Africa introduced the Buffel armoured  truck to protect its troops from landmines and ambushes.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffel#Production_history

 

The Buffel was the first truly effective landmine-protected armored personnel carrier to enter service anywhere. The South African Army began deploying it in the operational area from 1978.

 

It has been replaced by the Mamba APC which would be practical in Thailand.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamba_APC

 

In Thailand when too many troops get killed and wounded the fat cat generals just order some more as they are cheap and expendable, and not as valuable as generals, who sit in comfort well away from the fighting in their air conditioned offices and armoured limos.

[Falcon]

On 9/24/2021 at 7:57 PM, mattk1 said:

Thanks for all the replies gents and ladies if any.

 

It seems like no one has actually tried this method. Unless things change I reckon it's worth a go.. got to be worth a shot ????

Worth a shot? To gamble with your sons freedom for 2 years if coming back to Thailand from and between the ages of 18-30??? I wouldn’t chance anything with my son, even if 1% chance of him ever being called up for joining the army here. Right now, my son is on his 2nd year of ror dor (army cadets) with another year and a bit to go (3 yrs in total), but at least this way he can come and do without worrying that they are going to drag him physically from the airport on his arrival to serve his 2 years there.

 

you asked about the blue book and not being entered. You have a choice, they can stay in the house blue book and receive all the benefits of being in it - Thai ID card , Thai passport, etc. or, you can have him:them removed with the excuse that they are remaining and living overseas and don’t want or need to be on the blue book any more (the blue book is similar to the electoral role in the uk). Then, upon notification of this, the house owner should go to the local amphur office and have them removed. Only if, or when, they want to do anything as Thais will they then need to be placed back on it and, as such, not being in the blue book, they will not be called up. After age 30, they are legally and safely able to be entered in to a blue book again with no need for military call up.

there is one other way that’s not mentioned anywhere, to be able to get exemption from the call up though which, being in the uk would seem quite interesting and easier. That is to have your children join the army cadets in the uk and be in there for 2 years. Then, get documentation and proof that the did the 2 years army cadets in uk and they are exempt from call up in Thailand too.

[Thechook]

On 9/23/2021 at 10:53 PM, mattk1 said:

But they would exit on Thai passports.. thus showing them as left the country

If they come in on foreign passport and are required to get a visa then leave on a thai passport that visa will still be open.  When the visa expires would they be at risk of arrest for overstay.  When they try to come in again on their foreign passport they would be flagged as overstay with immigration as they technically hadn't departed.

[Thechook]

Our son's plan is to attend ADFA (Australian Defence Force Academy) where he will graduate as an officer.  He has two passports and enters on his Thai one.  Good luck trying to trying to grab an Australian Miltary officer and force him to do Thai national service.  Would be a major international incident.

[MAN2SIN2BKK]

Conscription is based on the Thai ID card not passports; the easiest way out is through education; my 2 eldest have UK and Thai passports and are at university; they reported and are deferred for the duration of their studies

Edited September 26, 2021 by MAN2SIN2BKK

[Rawairat]

My kid did the army camp over 3 years which will probably exempt him from the call up, but it is not a guarantee apparently. However if he does get selected he may do 6 months I heard, however he is over 18 now and signed off with the local army desk, so I guessing it is all over? It would have been cheaper to donate B50,000 the current rate to avoid going if you get chosen I believe, but it did not do him any harm. Being from a private school all the Luk Kruengs and Thais went to a "resort hotel" for 4 weeks every year, bussed to the army camp at 11 AM each day. The first year was a lot of parade ground drills in the sun, the 2nd and 3rd seemed to be more indoctrination on the Thai system of governing and respect for the Monarchy which is normal in Thailand. I was hoping for some real army discipline and long training runs but probably closer to a summer camp for the well to do.

[off road pat]

On 9/23/2021 at 2:44 PM, ArcticFox said:

Just do their obligation to their country. As a vet, I find you people who prefer to dump their country's defense onto 'someone else' to be morally bankrupt.  You want the benefits without paying the costs.

Hm,...so if I understand you well?,.... only the kid's of the rich and powerful can and may avoid conscription !?!?

[VocalNeal]

5 minutes ago, off road pat said:

Hm,...so if I understand you well?,.... only the kid's of the rich and powerful can and may avoid conscription !?!?

Sounds very transatlantic?  Bad feet?

Edited September 26, 2021 by VocalNeal

[The Fugitive]

On 9/24/2021 at 1:17 PM, BMW Overlander said:

Current rate to pay and avoid serving in Thai Army is around THB 50,000-70,000. Nothing illegal about it, it is common practice. Once payment is made, Army will issue the document confirming young boy is not required to do military service. Me and wife did this for our son. I don't want him to serve in army whose main objective is terrorizing its own people and removing democratically elected governments. Not to mention poor safety records primitive training methods, mysterious deaths of conscripts, faulty parachutes and other mishaps we read about on regular basis.

 

Another option is to send your kid(s) to 30 days military camps for 2 consecutive years during high school summer breaks. Best friend of my son did this and is no longer under obligation to serve. 

 

If your family has a friend in military, preferably rank of lieutenant or above, ask for additional info and he can put you in touch with relevant people. This is the way we went about it and worked JUST FINE. The whole process lasts about 2 months.

Thanks, that's great information. National Service belongs to the era when young men were sent into combat zones fighting pointless prolonged colonial wars, some paying the ultimate price. Same happened more recently during the Vietnam conflict. Having said that my Thai nephew after working both in Thailand and Japan in a series of jobs recently voluntarily joined The Royal Thai Military Police and loves it!  

[Seismic]

On 9/24/2021 at 6:11 AM, FalangTingTong said:

At the risk of providing useless anecdata…

 

In the EU I have been asked before at national borders whether I have any other passports,  probably because of my weird international accent.

 

I don’t have, but if I did and lied about it I would be committing a serious crime, and if caught I would expect national entry bans at the very least.

 

So keep in mind that if you’re betting your kids’ convenience/safety/education or whatever on avoiding obligations via passport tricks, at any time they might have to show their cards, and your troubles might suddenly be much greater than had you just parked them in Britain long enough for the issue to time out,  YMMV of course, just my opinion.

That is interesting as in all my 42 years of traveling the globe on almost every continent I have never once been asked if I had another passport, and that includes passing national borders throughout the EU.

 

[bert bloggs]

Our son joined the army cadets and trained for 3 yrs a couple of nights a week ,so he did not have to join the army,he was in a private school so dont know if this made any difference.

[DavisH]

If the kids are schooled in Thailand at that time, they can do ROTC when they are in Grade 10-12. My son has done that, though the last two years were a mess due to covid. Normally, they do it one day a week, even in the morning or afternoon. It seemed to go half a year or less. After that, they have completed the requirements. Certainly public and private Thai schools have this, and I guess International schools as well. 

[The Fugitive]

On 9/26/2021 at 7:42 PM, Seismic said:

That is interesting as in all my 42 years of traveling the globe on almost every continent I have never once been asked if I had another passport, and that includes passing national borders throughout the EU.

 

Talking about EU (or even pre-EU), my first experience of a land border crossing was (I think) France/Belgium back in 1971. Driver stopped our car and a guard came out of his border post looking puzzled and politely enquired in perfect English; 'Can I ask why you have stopped please?'. When driver explained that this was his first land border crossing and he was eager to get the officers stamp in his passport the guard practically beamed with delight and it took us ages to get on our way. The poor guy really appreciated having someone to talk to.

[bbko]

I served 24 years in the US military and would have no worries if my son joined the US military, but from what I've seen, getting pulled into the Thai military for 2 years is a waste of time.  When my now 14 year old son is able to join the high school cadet program I will strongly suggest he sign up.  I have no intention of paying a 50,000B bribe or him wasting 2 years of his life.  

 

For those with sons that did the high school program, can you share the experience? Good points/low points, areas of concern?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/24/2021 at 7:21 PM, billd766 said:

If you want an example, just look at the southern region where there has been a guerilla war for decades and the army still haven't won yet.

That is somewhat unfair. If they did what they needed to do to win, there would be international outrage, IMO. Think about whether the British solution in Kenya against the Mau Mau, or in Malaya against the deleted would be acceptable today.

The US lost 50,000 in Vietnam and lost the country too.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/25/2021 at 11:50 PM, billd766 said:

When was the last time a senior officer was seen leading patrols from the front and was injured or killed?

In which western army does an officer above the rank of captain "lead from the front"?

 

[billd766]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In which western army does an officer above the rank of captain "lead from the front"?

 

The British Army for one.

 

To gain respect from the troops, officers should lead by example and be capable of doing what they expect the troops to do. They should ensure the comfort of the troops before their own. That makes troops into happy troops who are willing to go the extra distance knowing that their officers are facing what they are facing.

 

This can be fairly well applied to the current Thai military.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions_led_by_donkeys#:~:text="Lions led by donkeys" is,and indifferent leaders (donkeys).

 

Lions led by donkeys" is a phrase popularly used to describe the British infantry of the First World War and to blame the generals who led them. The contention is that the brave soldiers (lions) were sent to their deaths by incompetent and indifferent leaders (donkeys). The phrase was the source of the title of one of the most scathing examinations of British First World War generals, The Donkeys—a study of Western Front offensives—by politician and writer of military histories Alan Clark.