Electric vehicles of all kinds

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The "government" is not promoting them, they are mandating them. 

 

You point at mandated increases in EVs an renewables as evidence of how great they are. 

I notice you completely ignored that fact that Tesla had a record year in the USA in 2020 despite that fact that it was no longer eligible for credits. Another inconvenient truth, huh?

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, seedy said:

The other 90% of the worlds population will continue to die of disease and starvation while the Rich Western Yokels feel SO GOOD about how they are saving the environment (and saving money they think)

 

90% of the world's population continue to die of disease and starvation? Really? I used think that you were living 10 years behind most of us.. It turns out that you're actually living in the Middle Ages.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

I notice you completely ignored that fact that Tesla had a record year in the USA in 2020 despite that fact that it was no longer eligible for credits. Another inconvenient truth, huh?

I've ignored nothing. 

 

You seem to ignore that fact that governments mandate that auto manufacturers produce EVs and that utilities have to install renewable when you point out the amount of investment. 

 

Sure, rich lefties love Teslas, what does that have to do with anything? 

[placeholder]

Tesla US Sales Up 104% While US Auto Industry Down 22%

Comparing the 3rd quarter of 2021 to the 3rd quarter of 2020, US Tesla sales were up 67% while overall US auto sales were down 13%. Compared to 2019, the difference was even more stark — Tesla sales were up 104% and US auto sales were down 22%.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/17/tesla-us-sales-up-104-while-us-auto-industry-down-22/

Just a reminder. Credits for buying a Tesla expired on Jan 1, 2020

 

 

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I've ignored nothing. 

 

You seem to ignore that fact that governments mandate that auto manufacturers produce EVs and that utilities have to install renewable when you point out the amount of investment. 

 

Sure, rich lefties love Teslas, what does that have to do with anything? 

What do you mean by mandates? There is no mandate telling Tesla to manufacture cars. Such nonsense. And there is certainly no mandate telling people to buy them. Stop making things up. 

 

 

[seedy]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

 Your claim that you know of an ICE vehicle that had 500,000 kilometers on it?

No - over 700,000 Km

Isuzu TFR pickup, diesel, 5 speed.

Color red - what else you want to know ?

 

 

Here is one with 700,000 miles

 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Tesla US Sales Up 104% While US Auto Industry Down 22%

Comparing the 3rd quarter of 2021 to the 3rd quarter of 2020, US Tesla sales were up 67% while overall US auto sales were down 13%. Compared to 2019, the difference was even more stark — Tesla sales were up 104% and US auto sales were down 22%.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/10/17/tesla-us-sales-up-104-while-us-auto-industry-down-22/

Just a reminder. Credits for buying a Tesla expired on Jan 1, 2020

You're funny. GM alone sells well over 10 times as many cars in the US as does Tesla.

 

Indeed, rich lefties love Tesla, so much so that they don't even mind him moving to Texas to avoid California income taxes. 

 

They can drive an expensive new car and pretend like the care SOOOOO much. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What do you mean by mandates? There is no mandate telling Tesla to manufacture cars. Such nonsense. And there is certainly no mandate telling people to buy them. Stop making things up. 

No, but there are mandates compelling other manufactures to build EVs, and telling utilities to build renewables. 

 

Do you really not know this? 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, seedy said:

No - over 700,000 Km

Isuzu TFR pickup, diesel, 5 speed.

Color red - what else you want to know ?

 

 

Here is one with 700,000 miles

 

What do you think these rarities prove (assuming that the one you claim to have encountered even exists)? You think that's how the expected  length of life of a particular model of a vehicle is determined? By outliers?  Do you have any idea about how quality control researchers and technicians rank not just vehicles but any manufactured product? What do you think these examples have to do with EVs? It's as though you come from a time when data, science, and statistics weren't a thing. Like the Middle Ages. You should write for that eminent quality control journal, I Know A Vehicle That... It is to laugh.

By the way, according to the presenter in the video, that luxury vehicle sold for $63,000 when new. And that was way back when. Whaddya think a comparable luxury vehicle would cost now? This is your idea of a typical auto?

[Yellowtail]

The last five vehicles I have had all went at least 300,000km without any significant problems, and were still going strong when I sold them. 

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You're funny. GM alone sells well over 10 times as many cars in the US as does Tesla.

 

Indeed, rich lefties love Tesla, so much so that they don't even mind him moving to Texas to avoid California income taxes. 

 

They can drive an expensive new car and pretend like the care SOOOOO much. 

 

 

Do you understand trends at all?

And you're seriously confused. Elon Musk moved Tesla HQ to Texans and is opening a plant there. What does this have to do with rich lefties?

The reason renewable power is booming isn't' because of mandates. It's because they're already cheaper than coal and closing in on gas.

Here's an analysis for you. The product of something you're clearly unfamiliar with research. By world renowned hard care capitalists. Lazard Freres. 

 

https://www.lazard.com/media/451086/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-130-vf.pdf

And since you're so concerned about mandates making for not level laying field, whaddya think of the IMF report that says fossil fuels in the USA are subsidized to the tune of more than half a trillion dollars per year?

Edited October 18, 2021 by placeholder

[placeholder]

This was from 2 years ago. The cost of renewables keeps on declining. Well, except for the fuel, which is free. Whereas fossil fuels have shot up in price.

 

Renewable Energy Is Now The Cheapest Option - Even Without Subsidies

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2019/06/15/renewable-energy-is-now-the-cheapest-option-even-without-subsidies/?sh=4bc9af4e5a6b

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Do you understand trends at all?

And you're seriously confused. Elon Musk moved Tesla HQ to Texans and is opening a plant there.

Yes, to avoid California taxes and regulations. 

 

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What does this have to do with rich lefties?

At least in the US, those are the people that generally buy his products. 

 

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The reason renewable power is booming isn't' because of mandates. It's because they're already cheaper than coal and closing in on gas.

Here's an analysis for you. The product of something you're clearly unfamiliar with research. By world renowned hard care capitalists. Lazard Freres. 

So do you agree that governments should not mandate investment in renewable energy? 

 

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

https://www.lazard.com/media/451086/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-130-vf.pdf

And since you're so concerned about mandates making for not level laying field, whaddya think of the IMF report that says fossil fuels in the USA are subsidized to the tune of more than half a trillion dollars per year?

I am generally against subsidies, but I would like to see how they break that down. Half a trillion is more than their revenue, yes? 

 

In any event, I said nothing of level playing (or laying) fields. What I said was, that people pointing at investments in EVs and renewable as evidence of how great they are being intellectually dishonest (or perhaps are just ignorant) , given that much of the investments are made to satisfy government mandates.

 

I am pretty sure deducting the cost for labor, material, overhead and depreciation are considered subsidies, while compelling utility companies to buy all the "excess" power from renewables is not....

 

   

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The last five vehicles I have had all went at least 300,000km without any significant problems, and were still going strong when I sold them. 

And what does this say about EVs?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, to avoid California taxes and regulations. 

 

At least in the US, those are the people that generally buy his products. 

 

So do you agree that governments should not mandate investment in renewable energy? 

 

I am generally against subsidies, but I would like to see how they break that down. Half a trillion is more than their revenue, yes? 

 

In any event, I said nothing of level playing (or laying) fields. What I said was, that people pointing at investments in EVs and renewable as evidence of how great they are being intellectually dishonest (or perhaps are just ignorant) , given that much of the investments are made to satisfy government mandates.

 

I am pretty sure deducting the cost for labor, material, overhead and depreciation are considered subsidies, while compelling utility companies to buy all the "excess" power from renewables is not....

 

   

What does avoiding California taxes and regulations have to do with customers buying Teslas? Did Tesla's customers flee to Texas along with the company? Your point makes no sense.

Ya think people would be increasingly buying Teslas at at an exponential ace if the reports about its performance was unfavorable?  In your experience, is that how markets work?

Comanies may build EVs to satisfy govt mandates. but they can't force the ublic to buy them now, can they?

 

EV sales

EV sales are surging due to a combination of policy support, improvements in battery technology and cost, more charging infrastructure being built, and new compelling models from automakers. Electrification is also spreading to new segments of road transport, setting the stage for huge changes ahead.

https://about.bnef.com/electric-vehicle-outlook/

 

The days when utility companies were being compelled to buy solar and wind is long past. Everyone who knows anything about the electric power industry, knows that coal is on the way out.

 

Solar and wind easily beat it on price.

 

Gas is also beginning to struggle against solar and wind. Already gas peaker plants are being pushed aside in favor of renewables plus storage.

 

"I am pretty sure deducting the cost for labor, material, overhead and depreciation are considered subsidies"

Does this come from the Journal of I'm Pretty Sure That...   Stop making things up. One of the chief ways fossil fuels are subsidized is in the health costs they impose on the rest of us.  For example the Trump administration tried to undeclare that toxic mercury vapor generated by coal burning was a neurotoxin. That didn't get very far with the courts for obvious reasons. Follow this link if you want to read more about how serious a threat fossil fuels are to health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5800116/

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by placeholder

[kwilco]

Thailand will soon be building electric cars.... meanwhile the import costs are already lower than the300% on ICE vehicles and 150 on TKDs.

It seems to me that Jo Average has grossly underestimated the rate of Chang to electric.

The motor industry has embraced it 100%. 

Any claims about lack of charging points are basically risible. And as fir price...leasing is helping new sakes and running costs are already lower than many ICE cars.

Soon the secondhand market will have models available too.

Thailands motor industry was based on the pickup, but they are already abandoning this and elsewhere factories are closing or switching... the extra skills and tech machinery required for monocoque construction are already in place.

The only sad part is that hydrogen power may get sidelined in the rush.

Chinese already have plant in Thailand and you can bet they will lead the way in electric vehicles

[sezze]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

Thailand will soon be building electric cars.... meanwhile the import costs are already lower than the300% on ICE vehicles and 150 on TKDs.

It seems to me that Jo Average has grossly underestimated the rate of Chang to electric.

The motor industry has embraced it 100%. 

Any claims about lack of charging points are basically risible. And as fir price...leasing is helping new sakes and running costs are already lower than many ICE cars.

Soon the secondhand market will have models available too.

Thailands motor industry was based on the pickup, but they are already abandoning this and elsewhere factories are closing or switching... the extra skills and tech machinery required for monocoque construction are already in place.

The only sad part is that hydrogen power may get sidelined in the rush.

Chinese already have plant in Thailand and you can bet they will lead the way in electric vehicles

Hydrogen power is atm irrelevant , since it does look more easy then it actually is . In order for hydrogen to be competitive , you need fuelcells . Combustion of hydrogen does work , but hydrogen is very light and combustion engines are very bad in hp/fuel consumption .

Fuelcells are mighty expensive , there is research on it to make them cheaper but most ( if not all ) fuelcells require the exotic platinum ... and you see where it goes...

[LarrySR]

9 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

You're funny. GM alone sells well over 10 times as many cars in the US as does Tesla.

 

Indeed, rich lefties love Tesla, so much so that they don't even mind him moving to Texas to avoid California income taxes. 

 

They can drive an expensive new car and pretend like the care SOOOOO much. 

 

 

“Rich lefties”

You mean the educated, thoughtful, financially successful demographic, right?

It’s pretty obvious why you hold a grudge against them. 
 

You really should stop blaming the “leftists” for all your problems, unplug your cable TV and get some time away from Fox before you pop a vessel. 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by LarrySR

[seedy]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

What do you think these rarities prove (assuming that the one you claim to have encountered even exists)?

And now I am a liar ?

"Just wait, people show their True Colors"

Thanks, now I know where I stand

 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by seedy

[KhunLA]

Any chance this thread staying on topic, "EV in Thailand"

[seedy]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

Thailand will soon be building electric cars.... meanwhile the import costs are already lower than the300% on ICE vehicles and 150 on TKDs.

It seems to me that Jo Average has grossly underestimated the rate of Chang to electric.

The motor industry has embraced it 100%. 

Any claims about lack of charging points are basically risible. And as fir price...leasing is helping new sakes and running costs are already lower than many ICE cars.

Soon the secondhand market will have models available too.

Thailands motor industry was based on the pickup, but they are already abandoning this and elsewhere factories are closing or switching... the extra skills and tech machinery required for monocoque construction are already in place.

The only sad part is that hydrogen power may get sidelined in the rush.

Chinese already have plant in Thailand and you can bet they will lead the way in electric vehicles

Agree - they have their place, which is short trips in a metro area.

WHEN or IF charging points are installed around the country, WHEN or IF these do not require a prolonged wait to "fill" your car, there may be more widespread acceptance.

But at this point in time, not doable.

Would you wait 2 hours to fill your car, multiple times, on a cross country journey ?

I would not.

The elephant in the room will be reliability and lifespan, which no one now knows. Lets hope better that Tesla. $200 for a plastic door handle - 555

Prius were doing fine, but they were expensive, and going by used prices online you are better off buying a newer car than replacing the battery bank, currently aprox $5000 USD

 

[KhunLA]

I've yet to see any vehicle plugged into any charging station that I've noticed.  Granted, have only noticed a couple on the road, but at the malls, every charging bay has been available.

 

Agree, great for around town, and may require a bit more planning when out & about, but doable, for now.

 

Emphasis on 'for now'.  If not buying ICE last year, I'd seriously consider new EV purchase.  By the time new battery needed, if still alive, they'll be cheaper & better.

 

I miscalculated my E-motorcycle battery life, as thinking 1000 cycles, actually 1200 cycles, and even with my heavy use, should last possible 10 years.  Hope I'm around to replace.????

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, seedy said:

And now I am a liar ?

"Just wait, people show their True Colors"

Thanks, now I know where I stand

 

 

You're an anonymous member of thaivisa.com. Personal testimony can't be corroborated independently. That goes for me just as much as it goes for anyone else. Including you. Get over yourself.

[KhunLA]

EV vs ICE

Took notice of the petrol prices recently, as hard to miss vs the Jan 2020 price.  The E85 up about 25%.  Along with E85 about ฿6 or 7 less than 91/95.

 

We have 25,500 kms on the MG ZS (11 k/liter), and just over a year of owning.  So round to 2000 kms a month, and that's shy of ฿40k in Jan 2029, to now ฿50k to run a year.   So I think an EV's mark up, would pay for itself very fast.  Not including the oil changes every 10k kms, along with tune ups, belts and the rest of the maintenance required for ICE.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

EV vs ICE

Took notice of the petrol prices recently, as hard to miss vs the Jan 2020 price.  The E85 up about 25%.  Along with E85 about ฿6 or 7 less than 91/95.

 

We have 25,500 kms on the MG ZS (11 k/liter), and just over a year of owning.  So round to 2000 kms a month, and that's shy of ฿40k in Jan 2029, to now ฿50k to run a year.   So I think an EV's mark up, would pay for itself very fast.  Not including the oil changes every 10k kms, along with tune ups, belts and the rest of the maintenance required for ICE.

Whereas I think we have a pretty clear idea of what the "fuel" for photovoltaics and wind turbines will cost tomorrow, next week, next year and next decade.

[Bandersnatch]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Any chance this thread staying on topic, "EV in Thailand"

My MG HS PHEV cost the same or less than most SUVs available in Thailand. It came with 5 years of completely free servicing and I make the fuel for free from my excess solar production in the middle of the day. There are no EV subsidies here in Thailand but it is still cheaper overall than a comparable ICE SUV in Thailand 

[KhunLA]

My E-scooter will be solar from home ... ????

 

"If you're not part of the solution, you are the problem."   Think I bought it just so I could say that every now and then ... ????????????

[kwilco]

20 hours ago, sezze said:

Hydrogen power is atm irrelevant , since it does look more easy then it actually is . In order for hydrogen to be competitive , you need fuelcells . Combustion of hydrogen does work , but hydrogen is very light and combustion engines are very bad in hp/fuel consumption .

Fuelcells are mighty expensive , there is research on it to make them cheaper but most ( if not all ) fuelcells require the exotic platinum ... and you see where it goes...

Like so many, you've  got the forecast wrong. In fact just today the UK government included hydrogen in road fuel grants for the future   to keep in line with the EU. Toyota have already retailed a hydrogen car as have a couple of other Japanese manufacturers.

Furthermore oeopke overlook that hydrogen is already in place in many buildings like hospitals.

I agree it could be like Betamax v VHS, but as there uses are already established I think there is a good chance we'll  avoid this.

[kwilco]

17 hours ago, seedy said:

they have their place, which is short trips in a metro area.

As I said earlier some people are completely out of date. My neighbours electric Mazda has the same range as my Navara had  

People grossly underestimate how far electric has come. Thailand is a little behind d places like the EU but within a year or 2 you will look back and laugh at your post.

Edited October 19, 2021 by kwilco

[kwilco]

On 10/18/2021 at 1:07 AM, seedy said:

The same old story - Politics and Big Business

It is no wonder that Big Oil owns a considerable percentage of the renewable market.

Why ? - to reap the benefits of the tax credits offered by their Stooges in Office.

Same as when the price of oil drops, consumers never reap the benefits. Yet when the price rises they are hit immediately.

The Game is Rigged, they have all the cards.

And they have the Sheeple believing that paying more for a vehicle with less performance and shorter life is good. 

Oh, and don't forget the carbon tax credits that are freely traded world wide. No actual reduction in carbon output, but a healthy profit made.

Big Business is the ONLY people world wide who will see any benefit from this fiasco. The other 90% of the worlds population will continue to die of disease and starvation while the Rich Western Yokels feel SO GOOD about how they are saving the environment (and saving money they think)

Plus all the mines to extract the components to make the batteries are in the thirld world for the most part. Hmmm - fancy that

 

Big oil know where the money will be and the world's largest user/producer of electric cars will be China and S.E. Asia. Currently some of the biggest coal burners will soon be driving electric. Furthermore China is the world's largest producer of solar panels. 

Have you seen the wind turbine Park on the highway to Amata Nakhorn?

I think the world is leaving you behind