Is it worth putting solar and wind generation in desert regions and then transmitting the power long distances to where it's needed?

[Crossy]

Some investors would seem to think that it is:-

 

Tiny Devon village with population of 286 will be connected to MOROCCO by the world's longest undersea cable in £16bn plan to bring wind and solar energy from 2,360miles away to power seven million British homes.

 

Village of Alverdiscott, Devon, is one end of £16billion undersea cable project

The village, of 286 people, will be connected to a line running to Morocco

Scheme will import solar and wind-generated energy to power seven million homes by 2030.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10046765/Tiny-Devon-village-population-286-connected-MOROCCO.html

 

 

[Rimmer]

I hope the road sitting crowd will be happy with this!!  But that sounds like a lot of voltage drop by the time it reaches UK, or does the change to HT  DC alleviate that problem?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Rimmer said:

I hope the road sitting crowd will be happy with this!!  But that sounds like a lot of voltage drop by the time it reaches UK, or does the change to HT  DC alleviate that problem?

 

Yeah, the link is HV DC but there's still going to be a not-insignificant energy loss warming up the ocean.

[Will B Good]

Like all electricity transmission it must be done at very high voltages so the current and heating loss is as low as possible.

 

I guess the cost and reliability then all depends on the grade and quality of the cabling.

 

You would like to think someone, somewhere knows what they are doing!

[Will B Good]

6 minutes ago, Rimmer said:

I hope the road sitting crowd will be happy with this!!  But that sounds like a lot of voltage drop by the time it reaches UK, or does the change to HT  DC alleviate that problem?

Can't be DC for transmission surely???. The heating effect of the current would kill the whole project.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Will B Good

[Crossy]

Just now, Will B Good said:

Can't be DC for transmission, the heating effect of the current would kill the whole project.

 

HV DC is best! No skin-effect and no radiated losses, also no worries about grid synchronisation.

[Will B Good]

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

HV DC is best! No skin-effect and no radiated losses, also no worries about grid synchronisation.

Just had a quick look on t'interweb.....Had no idea that you could do that, but as you say HV DC is the name of the game.

[gk10012001]

"worth"... depends how it is defined.  Lots of things are involved.

 

  Large capital investment to build or install the systems, that take 10 years to get the ROI Return on Investment is usually too long for most investors or cities or countries to buy into.  And that is not even considering repairs and maintenance.  

 

As for transmission, high current DC transmission is making a come back.  I worked on some high power systems and motors for large ships so picked up a few research things along the way.  Switching and converting the DC in addition to the transmission has improved greatly.  Monsterous capability IGBTs for example. It really is a fascinating field.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current 

  

 

[007 RED]

 

Not sure that standing on the panels is a good idea, especially if you have desert sand engrained in the soles of your boots ????

 

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, 007 RED said:

 

Not sure that standing on the panels is a good idea, especially if you have desert sand engrained in the soles of your boots ????

 

Already down to 229V

[KannikaP]

That's £2285 per home. 

[DaLa]

15 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

That's £2285 per home. 

I can see the completed results in 10 years time. We didn’t mean a short scale 16Bn ( 10 to the power 9) thus as you correctly calculated £2285. We meant the UK long scale (10 to the power 12) thus £2,285,000 per home !!!

 

Maybe they are factoring in a 10 year period, therefore only £228.50 per home, but of course no maintenance required.

[Thaifish]

Ozz planning a similar HVDC Solar project...errr umm the Pommy cable is 2360miles=3798km. The Ozzy cable will be 3,800km=2361miles. If I was Trump I would be doing another Term in office with that number!!

 

[jazzdog32095]

To insure this is engineered and installed correctly it should be mandatory that a group from ASEAN NOW  be sent over immediately with mask and flippers

[tjo o tjim]

For the UK, and the way the project is designed, it is a great solution. For Morocco it is a great project. Some real innovations should come from this project. It will have a lower cost of energy than Hinkley Point. 
 

But, as a general solution you want to have as much generation and storage close to demand as possible. This works well because it adds geographical diversification for wind, and latitude and cloud cover based efficacy improvements for solar.  Unfortunately the project is unlikely to use the solar shading to provide agricultural opportunities in the region. 

[Srikcir]

On 10/3/2021 at 11:08 AM, 007 RED said:

 

Not sure that standing on the panels is a good idea, especially if you have desert sand engrained in the soles of your boots ????

 

Not a lot of desert sand in England.

[Crossy]

Just now, Srikcir said:

Not a lot of desert sand in England.

 

The panels aren't in England.

[Srikcir]

Morocco has among the one of the highest rate of solar insolation in the world and has launched one of the largest solar energy projects at an estimated $9 billion. See Wikipedia

What's the urgency that energy imported from England via undersea cable is a priority and with such a high cost? Sounds like Thai "economics" at play.

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

What's the urgency that energy imported from England via undersea cable is a priority and with such a high cost?

 

The UK is doing the importing!

 

Generate in Morocco - use in the UK.

 

It's all about Uncle Boris and his Green Initiative, go green, damn the cost.

[AgMech Cowboy]

Ludicrous IMO.

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

The panels aren't in England.

Yes you're absolutely right but the bottom right picture-in-picture seems to imply otherwise.

[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Yes you're absolutely right but the bottom right picture-in-picture seems to imply otherwise.

 

Yeah, I wondered how long it would be before someone else spotted that ???? 

 

The Daily Wail at it's best.

[Muhendis]

The cable route on the picture/map seems to go within the territorial waters of Portugal and Spain. I wonder if that's wise. Also how stable is Morocco politically. 

Also why go the long way round Cornwall to Barnstable when the nearest point is somewhere like Plymouth and would would save a few hundred miles of very expensive wire.

Note to self. Must get shares in the copper supplier company.

[Will B Good]

It will be interesting to see how the installation is going to be protected.

 

I can see it being a prime target for destruction by ISIS et al.

[bluejets]

New Zealand have used HVDC transmission for donkeys years but this solar/wind thing seems a bit extreme when one considers the distance involved.

Wonder if it's a reality or just someones idea of rounding up a few quick bucks while "green" is the flavour of the month ( or moreso)

I'd be keeping my money on my own shed roof.

[Muhendis]

9 minutes ago, bluejets said:

I'd be keeping my money on my own shed roof.

Yes' I am in tune with that sentiment. I think solar micro grids (+ storage) are an approach worth considering. The trouble with that is there are many who live in flats and apartments who don't have their own roof and many home owners whose roof is leaning in the wrong direction, however that's where solar and wind farms come in. Since those will probably never be sufficient for the UKs power needs then importing from Morocco is not such a bad idea. 

[Tropposurfer]

I don't care where it comes from ... All I want to know is can I charge my Gameboy and iPhone from it lol ???????? !!!! 

[rickudon]

The economics of selling it to the UK is because electricity prices in UK are higher than Europe. But does sound a bit of a gamble. Maybe they want the same price as the new nuclear station (Hinckley Point?) will get. But apparently the UK intends on cutting green taxes on Electricity generation and shift it to Gas and other fossil fuels. Logical if you want to make people use electricity instead of gas.

[LarrySR]

On 10/3/2021 at 12:23 PM, jazzdog32095 said:

To insure this is engineered and installed correctly it should be mandatory that a group from ASEAN NOW  be sent over immediately with mask and flippers

Yea, there are allot of climate change deniers here that always know more than the investors in renewable energy projects.

 

[Opossum]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/02/210225113357.htm

 

Any projects that save the world should be in interest of the Brits. Once the gulf stream is gone... a lot of problems are to come.