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Top Thai virologist claims herd immunity does not work with COVID-19


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Well certainly vaccinating into an ongoing pandemic won't help!

 

Unfortunately, this is exactly what we're seeing in Thailand right now. Let's hope that for some mystical reason it will come different as two of the world's experts in the vaccine's technology and pandemics are outlining here, great discussion and very insightful (one doesn't have to agree with all the points they are making obviously, but that's science: listening to various points of view and then evaluating which can be falsified). That no one has listened to them from the very beginning has probably cost tens of thousands of lives.

 

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2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

COVID.vaccination prevents you only from seriously getting ill, but you can still catch and spread it because vaccination does not prevent you from breathing the virus in. 

you're missing the point entirely 

 

when people (even medical experts) use the word infected - they actually generally mean the virus has entered your body and been allowed to replicate to a detectable level, from then you are classed as having the disease COVID 19 caused by the virus, vaccines stop this process in the majority of people for now, it really is very simple to understand 

 

We get technically infected (a virus enters the body) with viruses every day - our bodies immune system defeats them before they have a chance to replicate and cause a disease

 

so yes you could stop breathing or live in a sterile environment and never have a virus enter your body techically speaking but that is not what we are talking about is it 

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13 minutes ago, pepi2005 said:

Well certainly vaccinating into an ongoing pandemic won't help!

 

Unfortunately, this is exactly what we're seeing in Thailand right now. Let's hope that for some mystical reason it will come different as two of the world's experts in the vaccine's technology and pandemics are outlining here, great discussion and very insightful (one doesn't have to agree with all the points they are making obviously, but that's science: listening to various points of view and then evaluating which can be falsified). That no one has listened to them from the very beginning has probably cost tens of thousands of lives.

 

I got a posting holiday for posting a video by Geert Vanden Bossche months ago 

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10 hours ago, JCP108 said:

My interpretation: No way we can get 70% of Thais vaccinated.

We don't need to. They will get it the natural way, eventually. Certianly some won't ever vaccinate. 

Once I had a Thai relative who was admitted to hospital with liver disease. He said he's rather die than give up drinking. He died. Nature has a way of working things out. 

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I suggest locking up Dr. Yong immediately. Sentence him to 10 years in prison, revoke his medical license, and get him away from any position where he can spout nonsense, that is not supported by science. This man is guilty of fear mongering, in the first degree. All this kind of stupidity does, is whip people up into a bigger frenzy that they are already in. We do not need this kind of fake news, garbage speculation, and lack of education. Imbeciles like this creep should not be allowed a platform to spout their dangerous theories.

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26 minutes ago, Saanim said:

"Started to take off"? So, why the huge demo there?

Here in NSW we'll have some restrictions lifted for vaccinated people starting on Monday, 11 October.

The NSW government is expecting to lift most restrictions (even for unvaxxed) on 1 December.

You can read it on the government website:

https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/easing-covid-19-restrictions?utm_campaign=2021-10-03_sfmc_349_con_covid_newsletter&utm_content=roadmap&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ServiceNSW_Consumer&utm_term=roadmap_hero_banner

 

As for the "demo" / protests - they're ongoing down in Melbourne (Victoria).

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56 minutes ago, Haruje said:

That's exactly right. Because vaccinated people can be infected in the same way as unvaccinated people. The vaccination only offers protection against severe disease, not against infection. So there will never be herd immunity.

Herd immunity against severe symptoms - it also depends on strains - his analogy of a rusty nail doesn't make sense.

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2 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

Many of us know that already.

 

Getting vaccinated though is the best way at the moment to help reduce the spread and lower hospital admissions.

That's only one aspect to the need for vaccination. The other aspect is that the unvaccinated may host the virus that can change in unexpected ways. There will still be additional evolutionary mutations that can shape the evolutionary direction of this virus. 

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He has a point. The true concept of 'Herd Immunity' is that the weak and susceptible die leaving the strong and immune in the rest of the herd. Vaccines are supposed to create immunity hence the 30% who are not vaccinated will still be susceptible and possibly die of Covid passed on from the strong and immune who can carry it without any harm shrugging off mild flu like symptoms of Covid.

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11 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

Covid-19 is not going to  go away as proved in soaring infections in UK and Israel and countries where vaccination is rate is very high. Vaccinated people can still get infected and spread to other vaccinated/unvaccinated people. The goal of each country is to to establish the infection rate and hospitalization that the country's health care infrastructure is capable of handling and work to achieve that goal. I'm convinced that Covid-19 will be there in near future in one variant or another. Hopefully scientists will come up with drugs very soon to reduce severity of infection and eliminate deaths caused by Covid-19. Most countries have started to realize that as we hear less from lock down nazis. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/herd-immunity-is-mythical-with-the-covid-delta-variant-experts-say.html

They have drugs that reduce severity of infection and substantially lower deaths they are called vaccines 

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8 hours ago, BumGun said:

Which is not what he was suggesting, he WAS suggesting that LIKE Covid, herd immunity is not conferred with Tetanus.  If everyone else is getting a Tetanus vaccination. and you aren't vaccinated,  you can still get Tetanus, like Covid i.e no herd immunity.  He was using it  as an allegory, for the many who live amongst us who are perhaps a little slow of mind and unable to grok the concept.

 

It's interesting news to me and him using the tetanus allegory made perfect sense to understand the concept.. I am trusting but will verify from another source at some date.

Tetanus was a bad example , and did nothing explain , why "herd immunity does not work with COVID-19 ".

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15 hours ago, ezzra said:

No country in the world have yet achieved 100% immunity to that herd immunity doesn't work, so far countries like Israel and UK and some Scandinavian country still have hundred of thousands and more than a million whom, for all sorts of reasons elected/refused not to get vexed and there's lie the problem...

Well … first you mix up herd immunity with vaccination rate.

 

But - let’s stay with your vaccination rate.

Gibraltar had a vaccination rate of 119% (119% because they also vaccinated employees coming from the Spanish mainland).

However, despite this vaccination rate they had a 2,500 % increase of infections in August.

 

… but who would have expected something different from a vaccine, designed and tested to stop severe Covid, instead of creating sterile immunity?

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The funny part is, this isn’t even very complicated. 
 

Old people get vaccinated, and we live with Covid. Just bc it’s not the answer you wanna hear doesn’t mean squat. This is exactly what we should be doing.

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11 hours ago, smedly said:

you're missing the point entirely 

 

when people (even medical experts) use the word infected - they actually generally mean the virus has entered your body and been allowed to replicate to a detectable level, from then you are classed as having the disease COVID 19 caused by the virus, vaccines stop this process in the majority of people for now, it really is very simple to understand 

 

We get technically infected (a virus enters the body) with viruses every day - our bodies immune system defeats them before they have a chance to replicate and cause a disease

 

so yes you could stop breathing or live in a sterile environment and never have a virus enter your body techically speaking but that is not what we are talking about is it 

Sorry, but it’s you who’s missing the point. The Pfizer BioNtech vaccine for example has a success rate of around 90%, which means there’s a 10% rest risk of getting infected despite having been vaccinated. In the case of Astra Zeneca the rest risk is 40%, which means there’s lots of people out there who can still get infected and spread it despite having been vaccinated. All the vaccine does in these people is protect them 100% from getting seriously ill from COVID. 

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25 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Sorry, but it’s you who’s missing the point. The Pfizer BioNtech vaccine for example has a success rate of around 90%, which means there’s a 10% rest risk of getting infected despite having been vaccinated. In the case of Astra Zeneca the rest risk is 40%, which means there’s lots of people out there who can still get infected and spread it despite having been vaccinated. All the vaccine does in these people is protect them 100% from getting seriously ill from COVID. 

Wrong... it's very simple, but there is more to it than that. 

 

When people cough & sneeze less they spread less virus.....  

When people are symptomatic for a shorter period of time, they spread less virus.....

 

 

It can’t be explained any more simply than that for you. 

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, JCP108 said:

My interpretation: No way we can get 70% of Thais vaccinated.

Not only Thais, but all the underclass, those who have been trafficked, and because the system is so top heavy with paperwork, unlike other nations where you can get a vaccine like aspirin,  just by asking a pharmacist. These people can't get the vaccine either way, and are probably locked up when they're not slaving away in some hellhole yet to be exposed

.

Remeber the monk-run drug rehab "zoo" busted last month?

 

I'm still trying to figure out this virologists logic tho, I got adult Chickenpox in a vaccinated society while vaccinated prior, as a nipper.

So that's his measles theory out the window, and I had measles too, one of my earliest memories of painful reality hitting the kid. I'll never forget the weird feverish nightmare, of endlessly pushing sewing needles into gigantic ropes as big as redwoods that went into the sky forever, Wild!

 

I'm not sure if "herd immunity" shapeshifts in some minds to mean "total global immunity", but having had two diseases I'd been vaccinated for as a kid, I doubt it.

 

So, I finally see his point, but he really butchered it with his examples. I hope he sews up his patients with a little more panache.

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12 hours ago, Saanim said:

"Started to take off"? So, why the huge demo there?

It's mostly about protesting the compulsion to vaxx for building sites in Melbourne, with lockouts for the unvaccinated, the builders Union demo was then shanghaied, or bolstered, depending on ones' politics, by the anti-everything crowd. The state Premier is also considered by his opposition to be a "militant" left winger, and most of the refuseniks are politically motivated too, so that adds to the drama.

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On 10/4/2021 at 1:45 PM, Bim Smith said:

Comparing a respiratory infection to tetanus is a little strange coming from a so called Top Doctor.

The way I read it is that he isn't comparing them. IMO what he is saying, is that some diseases, like tetanus, don't get herd immunity, and that he thinks corona will not develop herd immunity, but for different reasons that are not given in the OP.

It was a bad example to use, but it may have been clearer when said in Thai. I assume that is a translation in the OP, so it could be the translators mistake.

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22 hours ago, smedly said:

I got a posting holiday for posting a video by Geert Vanden Bossche months ago 

Thanks for giving that name, which I googled. Very interesting view point.

I think some social media is banning anything that does not support the authority view point, which is worrying to me.

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15 hours ago, Bernietravelling said:

… but who would have expected something different from a vaccine, designed and tested to stop severe Covid, instead of creating sterile immunity?

That could be because we are being told every day on electronic media that if we all get vaccinated the disease will be ended and we can all go back to what it was before corona started. They don't say that it's just to stop getting seriously ill.

IMO no more chance of eliminating corona than eliminating flu.

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7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:
22 hours ago, smedly said:

I got a posting holiday for posting a video by Geert Vanden Bossche months ago 

Thanks for giving that name, which I googled. Very interesting view point.

I think some social media is banning anything that does not support the authority view point, which is worrying to me.

 

I agree that its worrying that some view points are being banned my social media and ignored by mainstream media. But, some of those view points are dangerous. 

 

The details presented by Geert Vanden Bossche were ‘close’ enough to being feasible but missed out on key logic and omitted key information which contracted his conclusions - Ultimately his opinion was so readily refutable be bordered on ‘crack-pot’ level misinformation yet anti-vaxxers were clinging onto facets of his argument to influence the undecided.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I agree that its worrying that some view points are being banned my social media and ignored by mainstream media. But, some of those view points are dangerous. 

 

The details presented by Geert Vanden Bossche were ‘close’ enough to being feasible but missed out on key logic and omitted key information which contracted his conclusions - Ultimately his opinion was so readily refutable be bordered on ‘crack-pot’ level misinformation yet anti-vaxxers were clinging onto facets of his argument to influence the undecided.

 

 

 

 

 

Soooooo, who gets to decide what is acceptable and what is "dangerous"? We all went to school in western countries and we all learned to read and make decisions on what we read. The only thing "dangerous" IMO, is when certain people take it upon themselves to decide what I can read. The only time, IMO, that censorship is justified is in a time of war, and we are not in a war.

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