Top Thai virologist claims herd immunity does not work with COVID-19

[webfact]

 

“Forget about herd immunity because it will not work with COVID-19.” So says Dr. Yong Poovorawan, chief of the Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology at the Faculty of Medicine of Chulalongkorn University, in his Facebook post on Sunday.

 

He said that, when the majority of people in a country have developed immunity, whether from vaccinations or after being infected with a disease, such as measles, the minority who have not been vaccinated or who have not been infected by the disease will be protected from the infection.

 

Herd immunity does not, however, work with some specific diseases, such as tetanus, even though many people have been vaccinated against it and, if someone gets pierced by a rusty nail, they will be infected with tetanus, said Dr. Yong.

 

Discover Cigna’s range of health insurance solutions created for expats and local nationals living in Thailand - click to view

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/top-thai-virologist-claims-herd-immunity-does-not-work-with-covid-19/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2021-10-04

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow ASEAN NOW on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[freedomnow]

You can't pass tetanus on as far as I know - so it's an apples to oranges comparison. ????

[sirineou]

 

3 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

You can't pass tetanus on as far as I know - so it's an apples to oranges comparison. ????

You beat me to the punch 

as I was typing "As far as I know Tetanus is not contagious from person to person. "

I noticed your post.????

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

right, think I’ll stay with western medical institute opinion on that…

FDA/ EMA / MHRA

 

 

 

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

“Forget about herd immunity because it will not work with COVID-19.” So says Dr. Yong Poovorawan, chief of the Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology at the Faculty of Medicine of Chulalongkorn University, in his Facebook post on Sunday.

If virtually nobody is spreading COVID due to the wonderful miracle vaccines then the unvaccinated / immunocompromised / non previously infected part of the 'herd' won't catch it because they're much less likely to breath it in due to being surrounded by people who don't have COVID.

 

I think he left out a little bit of information from his post, something that would clarify what he's saying.

 

He should explain why this is the case specifically for COVID.

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by ukrules

[JCP108]

My interpretation: No way we can get 70% of Thais vaccinated.

[ourdon]

Could be wrong on my figures so correct me if necessary (politely).  The 70% to 75% that was bandied about as herd immunity levels was for the original covid (lets call it base), and this was theoretical.  Along came the Alpha and Gamma mutations which were two, to two and a half times more contagious than the base disease.

This blew the original percentage estimates for the base disease herd immunity to shreds and left it a number that should only be remembered as a historical possibility.  Now along come our fabulous Delta variant which is several times more transmissible than the Alpha and gamma variants and throws any figures being developed for them out the proverbial window.

 

This is my understanding of where we are.

 

I don't know what herd immunity levels are for the delta variant are but suspect they are somewhere in the 90th percentile.

 

If you're still throwing that 70% figure around you're just trying to blow smoke up my kilt.  Now I don't object to this if it comes with a drink, dinner and a kiss. ????

[CartagenaWarlock]

Covid-19 is not going to  go away as proved in soaring infections in UK and Israel and countries where vaccination is rate is very high. Vaccinated people can still get infected and spread to other vaccinated/unvaccinated people. The goal of each country is to to establish the infection rate and hospitalization that the country's health care infrastructure is capable of handling and work to achieve that goal. I'm convinced that Covid-19 will be there in near future in one variant or another. Hopefully scientists will come up with drugs very soon to reduce severity of infection and eliminate deaths caused by Covid-19. Most countries have started to realize that as we hear less from lock down nazis. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/herd-immunity-is-mythical-with-the-covid-delta-variant-experts-say.html

Edited October 3, 2021 by CartagenaWarlock

[ezzra]

No country in the world have yet achieved 100% immunity to that herd immunity doesn't work, so far countries like Israel and UK and some Scandinavian country still have hundred of thousands and more than a million whom, for all sorts of reasons elected/refused not to get vexed and there's lie the problem...

[smedly]

experts in the UK and US made this point weeks ago about herd immunity even though comparing it to tetanus is rather silly as has already been pointed out 

 

The reason they are saying herd immunity doesn't work is because the current vaccines are not 100% effective and on top of that fade after about 8 months or for some vaccines less effective less time like the Chinese vaccines

 

It is why it is also believed that at some point everyone will get covid 19 vaccinated or not 

 

Herd imminity is a state were the virus burns itself out and dissapears - they are simply saying this will not happen

 

what does it change - nothing, vaccines still protect against the spread and serious illness 

Edited October 3, 2021 by smedly

[Blumpie]

Oh boy, a news headline that is an anti-vexers wet dream!  ????  

It's too early to say but most likely it will be around long after we're all inoculated and will morph like a flu.  Many non doctors will blather the same blather that we've all known for ages.

They're not sure, but like most Thais, if your'e right, wrong, or in the middle it doesn't matter as long as you say it and pretend you didn't really say it later on.  You are still smert (sic).

[poyai111]

2 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

right, think I’ll stay with western medical institute opinion on that…

FDA/ EMA / MHRA

 

 

 

A contrarian going out on a limb. Let's look at the science. Data suggests that one's resistance to reinfection is more than thirty times stronger than vaccination if one has a prior infection. ( Israel sttudy for example)

[ikke1959]

GThis news is already know for a longer time... I wrote several weeks ago that only 100% vaccinated people can get herd immunity, but than it is not her immunity anymore especially for mthe Delta. So no news only copied news. and not 1 country is already 100% vaccinated.

[Inala]

This headline is contradictory. In one breath, he says forget about herd immunity.... 

 

“Forget about herd immunity because it will not work with COVID-19.” 

 

In the next breath, he says....

 

"...when the majority of people in a country have developed immunity"......"the minority who have not been vaccinated or who have not been infected by the disease will be protected from the infection"

 

The link explains it a bit better, but his point still remains weak as water. This is not a good piece of journalism.

[Dukeleto]

1 hour ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

Covid-19 is not going to  go away as proved in soaring infections in UK and Israel and countries where vaccination is rate is very high. Vaccinated people can still get infected and spread to other vaccinated/unvaccinated people. The goal of each country is to to establish the infection rate and hospitalization that the country's health care infrastructure is capable of handling and work to achieve that goal. I'm convinced that Covid-19 will be there in near future in one variant or another. Hopefully scientists will come up with drugs very soon to reduce severity of infection and eliminate deaths caused by Covid-19. Most countries have started to realize that as we hear less from lock down nazis. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/herd-immunity-is-mythical-with-the-covid-delta-variant-experts-say.html

And yet when you google the reason or mechanism as to why the Delta variant is more transmissible you draw a complete blank! Was it feeding off red bull and grow wings? Is it lighter?(not sure you can get much lighter than a virus!). Have the spike proteins elongated and work like tentacles on an octopus to move from where they land to an open orifice on you body to infect you? What exactly is it exactly…anybody? The so called expert in the link is and I quote: “one of the lead researchers in the creation of the AstraZeneca-University of Oxford vaccine.” Well of course he has skin in the game and hence wants everyone vaccinated. Isn’t it funny how new variants with super powers keep appearing every time there is a spike in infections but nobody looks at people’s behaviour patterns surrounding those spikes. This entire debacle gets fishier and fishier by the day. Their goal is a 100% vaccination and by god they will have it no matter what! Human rights…what’s that? You have none! 

[clivebaxter]

Any anti tetanus vaxers out there? I wonder what nonsense cure they would recommend for that. Women up the road died from it last year, very nasty and just from a scratch in the garden

[itsari]

38 minutes ago, smedly said:

experts in the UK and US made this point weeks ago about herd immunity even though comparing it to tetanus is rather silly as has already been pointed out 

 

The reason they are saying herd immunity doesn't work is because the current vaccines are not 100% effective and on top of that fade after about 8 months or for some vaccines less effective less time like the Chinese vaccines

 

It is why it is also believed that at some point everyone will get covid 19 vaccinated or not 

The vaccination programme's around the world are showing none of the vaccines are effective at stopping infection . What is clear that all the vaccines are affective in stopping severe symptoms which in turn prevents  hospitalisation and death . Chinese vaccines included .

Third vaccines appear to be what is needed to sustain the vaccination program .

 

 

[Catoni]

Two points, you can almost never pass tetanus to another person. And also rust has nothing to do with it. Tetanus is in the dirt all over the world. The nail you step on outside can look brand new, no rust, and still have Tetanus bacteria all over it. 
   Tetanus bacteria can enter any cut, puncture or even burn wound. It doesn’t have to be a nail puncture, and it doesn’t have to be rusty. That’s just misleading old wive’s tale. 
   Still a lot more dangerous than Flu and Covid….. Tetanus fatality rate is about 50%.  Not good…. And very painful to get. 

[4MyEgo]

Did he just wake up and Google this ?

 

OMG, so is he suggesting that Covid which is spread by the carrier isn't actually spread by the carrier. The opposite to how it's actually spreads ?

 

WOW..... that would mean a heck of a lot of people stepping onto rusty nails then.

 

The man's a genius, I need my coffee to early for this BS 1st thing in the morning, then I'm going for my Tetanus shot just to be sure, to be sure Paddy.

 

Herd immunity does not protect against all vaccine-preventable diseases. The best example of this is tetanus, which is caught from bacteria in the environment, not from other people who have the disease. No matter how many people around you are vaccinated against tetanus, it will not protect you from tetanus.

Edited October 4, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[nobodysfriend]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

the majority of people in a country have developed immunity, whether from vaccinations or after being infected with a disease, such as measles, the minority who have not been vaccinated or who have not been infected by the disease will be protected from the infection.

Herd immunity is an illusion with fully vaccinated or recovered people still acting as spreaders for the virus .

Reminder : Vaccination protects the vaccinated person against falling severely ill . Not against catching or further transmitting the virus ...

[WinterGael]

3 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

right, think I’ll stay with western medical institute opinion on that…

FDA/ EMA / MHRA

 

 

 

This is exactly what they are saying  out of Europe   just with better example.  I have read a report and seen a video, and based off of all technical information,  many western experts are saying herd immunity is a pipe dream, just like the flu.  You can catch COVID more than once, you can have COVID and spread it even after being vaccinated. It mutates, and like the flu vaccine, you get vaccinated for one strain, and end up catching another strain. So herd immunity is not going to happen. 

[aBigSmile]

Works pretty well for Sweden and India.
A recent study in the latter shows 67% of the population has anti-bodies in their systems. 

[pops1]

This virologist is an idiot!!!

[hotchilli]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

He said that, when the majority of people in a country have developed immunity, whether from vaccinations or after being infected with a disease, such as measles, the minority who have not been vaccinated or who have not been infected by the disease will be protected from the infection.

When we reach the minority... still a long way to go.

Edited October 4, 2021 by metisdead
Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording.

[drenddy]

I was worried about Dr Yong Google, but I am glad he's back and he enriches us with his great wisdom.

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, Inala said:

This headline is contradictory. In one breath, he says forget about herd immunity.... 

 

“Forget about herd immunity because it will not work with COVID-19.” 

 

In the next breath, he says....

 

"...when the majority of people in a country have developed immunity"......"the minority who have not been vaccinated or who have not been infected by the disease will be protected from the infection"

 

The link explains it a bit better, but his point still remains weak as water. This is not a good piece of journalism.

Not good journalism, that's normal and usually understood. 

[gk10012001]

25 minutes ago, pops1 said:

This virologist is an idiot!!!

Maybe he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

[sammieuk1]

Dr google Yong has lost his internet connection again????

[Kadilo]

Fortunately we have our own top scientists on AN to keep us updated. 

[JCP108]

33 minutes ago, WinterGael said:

This is exactly what they are saying  out of Europe   just with better example.  I have read a report and seen a video, and based off of all technical information,  many western experts are saying herd immunity is a pipe dream, just like the flu.  You can catch COVID more than once, you can have COVID and spread it even after being vaccinated. It mutates, and like the flu vaccine, you get vaccinated for one strain, and end up catching another strain. So herd immunity is not going to happen. 

But, if Covid is spreading around in the general population (like the flu has forever), then eventually, there will be many cases (like the flu) but only very few severe cases. However, I listened to an inteview with an epidemiologist recently who said that we might not reach that state for 3-4 generations. We have to just adjust and accept that Covid is now a new cause of illness. We should take reasonable precautions (masks, for example) but try to get back to normal and not expect that any measures (for example 14-day quarantines) will reduce the transmission risk to zero.