Breakthrough COVID-19 Infection in Thailand: What to Know

[Pinot]

22 hours ago, Luton said:

Pinot I am not American and would never watch that dreadful news / propaganda outlet FOX!.....C'mon man, how about not projecting assumptions?! There is Ivermectin for humans (not the 'for animals' one) and it has achieved great results eliminating Covid early on and it's verified in several Countries now such as India and Japan....there are reputable medical practitioners globally on board with it....all you have to do is research and inform yourself, but use alternative search engines to Google who censor and hide articles that talk truth. Duck Duck Go seems  reasonable still. All the best to you.

The reason you won't find it on Google is because it's complete and utter BS. Dig deep enough and you'll find support for horse dewormer somewhere...

[300sd]

On 10/6/2021 at 2:46 PM, aussiebrian said:

I am embarrassed to be a westerner, to think that some Thais read this thread filled with qanon propaganda. It is like what you would read on sites like Rumble for Flat earthers full of medical misinformation, false claims and conspiracy theories. 
With so many antivaxers, anti markers posting here I predict covid19 will be with us for a long time. 
I see demonstrations happening in most western countries against controlling covid19 outbreaks. It is the 21st century, not the 17th.
I would like to see these tinfoilhat brigade working in covid19 wards with no PPE, they would soon change their minds.
I personally know many unvaccinated friends in India that have died and are still suffering from long covid. One friend has been on oxygen since April.
What is wrong with these people?? Stupidity at it highest.

 

It is almost impossible to change their minds they won't get it till they get it.

https://gulfnews.com/photos/news/celebrity-anti-vaxxers-who-died-of-covid-19-1.1632401033596?slide=12

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/21/anti-vax-radio-hosts-dying-covid

 

The stupidity is not allowing treatment!

[300sd]

On 10/6/2021 at 10:31 PM, Used2LuvThailand said:

Interesting to read the usual back and forth on this issue.  I'd like to add my 2 cents as a previous resident of Thailand and someone who tries to keep up with the news from there.

 

The OP's news article exemplifies the nature of the Covid 'debate'.  Is it the most infectious and deadly "virus" of the 21st century?  That is a nuanced and loaded statement designed to provoke a reaction.  It certainly appears to be the most infectious, but "deadly" tends to refer to a disease's mortality rate.  For the 21st century the WHO and CDC estimate that approximately 650,000 people die globally just from influenza EACH year.  So, for total numbers in the 21st century influenza is clearly beating Covid.

https://www.who.int/news/item/13-12-2017-up-to-650-000-people-die-of-respiratory-diseases-linked-to-seasonal-flu-each-year

 

The Covid vaccines are clearly safe and effective, when considering the scale.  Over 6 billion doses have been administered and while there have been adverse effects, it's obvious they're safer than penicillin or aspirin.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=OWID_WRL

 

I have been vaccinated for Covid, as well as over two dozen other diseases due to previous service with the US military.  Prior to 2020 I never had a single doctor or health care provider say, or imply, that my protection against a particular disease was dependent upon the vaccination status of others.  They didn't say that because it isn't.

 

There are the usual dueling 'experts' posts and I can't help but to take notice that not a single one referenced a government website, reliable university website or medical journal.  Many posters claim to be able to differentiate between real virologist and epidemiologists, but provide no evidence for other posters to reasonably believe that claim.  The CDC has a tremendous amount of reliable and up to date information about Covid, as does Johns Hopkins University.  I'll post the links knowing that the experts will not even open them to add to their expertise.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

 

It was also noteworthy that the posters who seem to claim they are more supportive of public health, also seem to be satisfied that their political opponents are more likely to die from Covid due to their party affiliation and/or intelligence.  It's hard to reconcile that sort of hate from those who claim to care more than others.  The people who seem to be generally against worrying about Covid and are not inclined to support the vaccine don't seem to be gleeful about their opponents' possible death, but merely want to be left alone.

 

The political party angle is indicative of how the 'experts' here don't bother to read beyond the headlines.  In the US, for the top 10 states with the highest Covid death rate per 100,000, 4 are run by Democrats.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

 

You can refer to the Johns Hopkins mortality page to see that a viral infection with a fatality rate of less than 2 percent will never be 'Darwinian'.  

 

Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are medically approved drugs with specific and effective uses in humans.  To claim otherwise further detracts from your 'expertise'.  But, just as aspirin and penicillin are ineffective drugs against cancer, those two medications show no effect against Covid, but that doesn't make them poison either.

 

Perspective is tough:

 https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

 

And finally, the 1918 influenza pandemic killed about 50 million people more than 100 years ago when the Earth's population was 1/4 of what it is today.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html

 

Excellent post. Actually Aspirin has been found to help covid and also prevent death if hospitalized from covid....Here is only one link but there are many:

 

https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/aspirin-may-help-prevent-covid-19-infection-study-says/

 

Here is a chart of stats from Public Health Ontario: Apparently one in 8532 children who received either Moderna or pfizer are having Miocarditis problems:

 

That seems quite high.....also recently the The British Vaccine Surveillance report seems rather unbelievable: I think it says that the number of poor outcomes per 100000 population is more in the vaccinated then the un-vaccinated.....Just information.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pd

[metisdead]

A post with a link to a conspiracy pseudoscience site has been removed as well as a reply.

[Used2LuvThailand]

On 10/7/2021 at 1:34 PM, placeholder said:

Actually, given the data you link to, impossible. Since the data you linked to is for 2O19.

Numbers are numbers.  Their value does not change based upon political affiliation.  The value of numbers in 2019 continues to be the same now.

[Used2LuvThailand]

On 10/7/2021 at 12:49 PM, placeholder said:

And they never had to tell you that the health of others was dependent on the vaccination of others because those diseases weren't stressing health systems into rationing health care the way covid is.

You don't know what I was vaccinated for, you don't know when and therefore your statement is unsupportable and the words you would place in the mouths of doctors are laughably false.  Hyperbole related to the rationing of health care is just as false as the 'death panel' claims of years past in order to for people to be afraid of the Affordable Care Act.  Any doctor will tell you that health care is routinely 'rationed'.  Before Covid hospitals would routinely be stressed for a number of reasons, the same happened during Covid and it will happen after the pandemic.

 

The US Department of Health and Human Services publishes updated data everyday on US hospital occupancy levels for all causes and Covid.  In addition, there are a number of medical journal articles available from Google that will show what the US hospital occupancy level has been in the past.  I will include the link, but I know you won't open or read it.

https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization

 

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, Used2LuvThailand said:

Numbers are numbers.  Their value does not change based upon political affiliation.  The value of numbers in 2019 continues to be the same now.

Nonsense. You cited those numbers to prove that covid wasn't one of the top 10 causes of death. Do you understand that the Covid pandemic was barely underway in 2019?

[placeholder]

20 hours ago, Used2LuvThailand said:

You don't know what I was vaccinated for, you don't know when and therefore your statement is unsupportable and the words you would place in the mouths of doctors are laughably false.  Hyperbole related to the rationing of health care is just as false as the 'death panel' claims of years past in order to for people to be afraid of the Affordable Care Act.  Any doctor will tell you that health care is routinely 'rationed'.  Before Covid hospitals would routinely be stressed for a number of reasons, the same happened during Covid and it will happen after the pandemic.

 

The US Department of Health and Human Services publishes updated data everyday on US hospital occupancy levels for all causes and Covid.  In addition, there are a number of medical journal articles available from Google that will show what the US hospital occupancy level has been in the past.  I will include the link, but I know you won't open or read it.

https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization

 

What are you on about "You don't know what I was vaccinated for". Who cares what you were vaccinated for. This discussion is about covid not measles, or varicella or mumps

 

What doctor will tell you that care is routinely rationed? Stop making things up If that were the case, why have several governors issued  declarations allowing hospitals to ration care? . Medical facilities are rationing treatment (triage) in states where Covid rates are highest.

Once Again Some States are Choosing Who Gets Covid-19 Care

https://publicintegrity.org/health/coronavirus-and-inequality/states-ration-disability-covid-care/

 

I did enjoy that comment of yours that I wouldn't bother to read your link especially in light of the fact that you clearly didn't read your own link to stats for world diseases and I clearly did. Remember ? You invoked statistics for 2019 as evidence to address a situation in 2020? And now you're doing it again. Yes the US Dept of health does publish a running average of hospital utilization. And even now it shows Alabama and other states as using over 85% of their ICU beds despite that fact that covid cases are on their way down in that state. 

Any prolonged level over 85% is not a good thing.

COVID-19: What it means for a hospital ICU to be at capacity

Capacity refers to the percent of ICU beds currently occupied. Generally, an ICU is considered functionally full when it reaches 85 percent capacity. Right now, many ICUs in the state are running at over 90 percent full, and based on what we know about positive test rates, they’re about to get busier.

https://intermountainhealthcare.org/blogs/topics/covid-19/2020/11/covid-19-what-it-means-for-a-hospital-icu-to-be-at-capacity/

 

Do you follow the news at all?

COVID-19 patients end up in other states — at great expense — as Idaho hospitals fill up

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/coronavirus/article254873817.html#storylink=cpy

 

Alabama out of ICU beds, Huntsville Hospital ICU over capacity

https://whnt.com/news/coronavirus/alabama-out-of-icu-beds-huntsville-hospital-icu-over-capcity/

 

Alaska allows hospitals to ration care amid COVID spike

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-business-alaska-health-1500db35e56b688e9cf3e0eea1d2a114

 

Covid Hospitalizations Hit Crisis Levels in Southern I.C.U.s

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/14/us/covid-hospital-icu-south.html

 

[placeholder]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:08 AM, rabang said:

How can you know it is a misconception of something that has been around for less than two years? It is already known that natural immunity is stronger than the protection from a vaccine.

What we do know is that some viruses actually do cause illnesses or deaths years after an infection. That has never been the case with a vaccine So where would a rational person construe from that?

[Used2LuvThailand]

19 hours ago, placeholder said:

Nonsense. You cited those numbers to prove that covid wasn't one of the top 10 causes of death. Do you understand that the Covid pandemic was barely underway in 2019?

I'm sorry you fail to understand the word 'perspective'.  Professor Google is your friend in these situations. 

 

Let me try to help you here....I cited information from the WHO to provide a comparison to previous numbers/causes of deaths in order to provide perspective on the number of Covid deaths.  I'm not trying to "prove" anything.  The WHO is a reputable source of information and those numbers speak for themselves.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Used2LuvThailand
Additional Info

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Used2LuvThailand said:

I'm sorry you fail to understand the word 'perspective'.  Professor Google is your friend in these situations. 

How can you get perspective on the situation when crucial evidence is omitted?. To get perspective you need to be examining 1 set of data in light of another. It is to laugh.

[Used2LuvThailand]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

What are you on about "You don't know what I was vaccinated for". Who cares what you were vaccinated for. This discussion is about covid not measles, or varicella or mumps

 

What doctor will tell you that care is routinely rationed? Stop making things up If that were the case, why have several governors issued  declarations allowing hospitals to ration care? . Medical facilities are rationing treatment (triage) in states where Covid rates are highest.

Once Again Some States are Choosing Who Gets Covid-19 Care

https://publicintegrity.org/health/coronavirus-and-inequality/states-ration-disability-covid-care/

 

I did enjoy that comment of yours that I wouldn't bother to read your link especially in light of the fact that you clearly didn't read your own link to stats for world diseases and I clearly did. Remember ? You invoked statistics for 2019 as evidence to address a situation in 2020? And now you're doing it again. Yes the US Dept of health does publish a running average of hospital utilization. And even now it shows Alabama and other states as using over 85% of their ICU beds despite that fact that covid cases are on their way down in that state. 

Any prolonged level over 85% is not a good thing.

COVID-19: What it means for a hospital ICU to be at capacity

Capacity refers to the percent of ICU beds currently occupied. Generally, an ICU is considered functionally full when it reaches 85 percent capacity. Right now, many ICUs in the state are running at over 90 percent full, and based on what we know about positive test rates, they’re about to get busier.

https://intermountainhealthcare.org/blogs/topics/covid-19/2020/11/covid-19-what-it-means-for-a-hospital-icu-to-be-at-capacity/

 

Do you follow the news at all?

COVID-19 patients end up in other states — at great expense — as Idaho hospitals fill up

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/coronavirus/article254873817.html#storylink=cpy

 

Alabama out of ICU beds, Huntsville Hospital ICU over capacity

https://whnt.com/news/coronavirus/alabama-out-of-icu-beds-huntsville-hospital-icu-over-capcity/

 

Alaska allows hospitals to ration care amid COVID spike

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-business-alaska-health-1500db35e56b688e9cf3e0eea1d2a114

 

Covid Hospitalizations Hit Crisis Levels in Southern I.C.U.s

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/14/us/covid-hospital-icu-south.html

 

The problem with being afraid of something is that you're no longer able to rationally look at the problem and you seem to be incredibly defensive in general.  I made the statement about you not knowing what I was vaccinated for, because you implied that you did.

 

Causes/numbers of deaths for 2019 were shown to provide PERSPECTIVE on what the numbers of Covid deaths mean and a comparison to other prevalent and serious causes of death.

 

For a science follower I find it more than amusing that you attempt to quote various newspapers and publicintegrity.org in order to show that the CDC's and HHS's data are incorrect.  So, either thousands of hospitals in the US are jointly conspiring to provide falsified data to the US government....or....wait for it....you and those newspapers are wrong.  I'll go with the later.

 

Take a deep breath, get the vaccine (as I have) and try to find another subject to be outraged about.

[placeholder]

57 minutes ago, Used2LuvThailand said:

The problem with being afraid of something is that you're no longer able to rationally look at the problem and you seem to be incredibly defensive in general.  I made the statement about you not knowing what I was vaccinated for, because you implied that you did.

 

Causes/numbers of deaths for 2019 were shown to provide PERSPECTIVE on what the numbers of Covid deaths mean and a comparison to other prevalent and serious causes of death.

 

For a science follower I find it more than amusing that you attempt to quote various newspapers and publicintegrity.org in order to show that the CDC's and HHS's data are incorrect.  So, either thousands of hospitals in the US are jointly conspiring to provide falsified data to the US government....or....wait for it....you and those newspapers are wrong.  I'll go with the later.

 

Take a deep breath, get the vaccine (as I have) and try to find another subject to be outraged about.

First off, if I'm the one being defensive, how come it's you making personal comments? I've only gone after your evidence, or rather lack of it. Not your state of mind, Stick to the facts and not your surmises about things you can't prove.

And what did you prove? You offered a link to the government website but no evidence from from that website. A link is not evidence. Once again, you apparently haven't even looked at the sources you've linked to. 

 

How about Johns Hokins University as a source? As you remarked"The CDC has a tremendous amount of reliable and up to date information about Covid, as does Johns Hopkins University."

 

 

As I pointed out, if you had actually bothered to look at the data from that govt site that you linked to you would have seen that several states are consistently over the critical 85% level in ICU utilization.  

And, of course, your claim that care rationing (triage) is standard is of course nonsense.

And you're seriously contending that all these republican governors were lying about the situation in their hospitals?  About rationing? That they were making the situation seem worse than it actually was? You have anything to disprove those reports? The government websites you referred to have no relevance to that issue at all. It's obvious you've got nothing.  

Edited October 10, 2021 by placeholder

[Used2LuvThailand]

15 hours ago, placeholder said:

First off, if I'm the one being defensive, how come it's you making personal comments? I've only gone after your evidence, or rather lack of it. Not your state of mind, Stick to the facts and not your surmises about things you can't prove.

And what did you prove? You offered a link to the government website but no evidence from from that website. A link is not evidence. Once again, you apparently haven't even looked at the sources you've linked to.

It's not my evidence.  It's information and data provided primarily by the US government.  If you disagree with the CDC and HHS, then take your disagreements up with them.  Again, the CDC's information is not 'my evidence'....or whatever you think that means.  I was never trying to prove anything.  Like with your confusion over the word 'perspective' I have no idea what you mean by 'a link is not evidence'.

 

16 hours ago, placeholder said:

As I pointed out, if you had actually bothered to look at the data from that govt site that you linked to you would have seen that several states are consistently over the critical 85% level in ICU utilization.  

And, of course, your claim that care rationing (triage) is standard is of course nonsense.

And you're seriously contending that all these republican governors were lying about the situation in their hospitals?  About rationing? That they were making the situation seem worse than it actually was? You have anything to disprove those reports? The government websites you referred to have no relevance to that issue at all. It's obvious you've got nothing.

From the charts you have copied and pasted from the Johns Hopkins website, it's clear that your 'conclusions' aren't supported.  Each bar represents a week, so it's also clear from those charts that the ICU utilization is not consistently over 85% (and where is your 'evidence' that 85% occupancy is a "critical" level?).  Like with the word 'perspective' or 'evidence' maybe you don't understand how percentages are calculated or the term 'consistent'.  A key aspect in understanding someone's attempt at argument is to look at their premises and I take note of the cherry picked states that you chose to copy/paste.

 

I also take note of your attempt to exaggerate other people's statements in your posts to me and others.  I never said that Republican governors were lying about anything.  I never said that hospitals weren't rationing health care.  Just the opposite.  I said that before Covid, during Covid and after Covid, hospitals have been, are and will be at times stressed due to a number of factors.  It isn't an unprecedented situation, except for the poorly-informed and frightened.

 

I laughed out loud at "you've got nothing".  It seems that like the thousands of CIA/MI6/SAS barstool occupiers in Thailand, you seem to be imagining yourself as a prosecutor in a court of law, a policeman and a doctor all wrapped up in one delusional persona.

[2Amusing]

Is it legal to share right here this US Gov't website link called ClinicalTrials.gov where it says A STUDY OF HYDROXYCLOROLQUINE, VITAMIN C, VITAMIN D, and ZINC for the prevention of Covid-19 infection?