Wise transfers not being processed as International (Specifically Bangkok Bank)

[OJAS]

15 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Find a financial institution that offers free or low cost, 5-10 dollar SWIFT fees.  With these you will get almost the same Baht as WISE from the US to many Thai Banks.  Some possibilities:

 

Vanguard doesn’t charge a wire transfer fee if the amount of the wire is over $5,000; the fee is only $5 if the amount is between $1,000 and $5,000.

 

Fidelity doesn’t charge a wire transfer fee if your total household balance at Fidelity is above a certain amount ($15 otherwise).

 

Business checking accounts sometimes get free wire transfers. For example you get 10 free wire transfers every month (5 incoming, 5 outgoing) with HSBC’s free no-minimum-balance Business Direct checking account.

 

Some premium level personal checking accounts also give free wire transfers. For example if you have Premier Checking at Northwest Federal Credit Union ($50,000 minimum balance or $10 monthly fee), you get free outgoing domestic wire transfers.

 

Online wires sent to a bank outside the U.S. in foreign currency (FX) have no Chase wire fee for amounts equal to $5,000 USD or more or only a $5 Chase wire fee when less than $5,000 USD 

 

And more if you search.

 

 

 

Maybe fine for Americans, but not so fine for Aussies and Brits, I think.

 

[KannikaP]

50 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Or even worse Wise will, in a huff, decide arbitrarily to close the accounts of each and every person who, in their eyes, has the temerity to lodge a complaint with them about their practices. In this connection, I distinctly recall reports on here of quite a few people (mainly Americans, I think) suddenly discovering that their TransferWise/Wise accounts had been closed with no advance warning or explanation.

 

And since, as @Pib has been at pains to point out, SWIFT transfers provide no cast-iron guarantee of the coveted FTT/International Transfer coding either, the prospects for us American, Australian and British retirees in particular relying on the 65k monthly income method look extremely bleak, given that, in the absence of income confirmation services from our "beloved" embassies, the "combo" method of proving finances for retirement extensions is to, all intents and purposes, ruled out in our case in practice.

What's the 'Combo' method got to do with it please? You either send 40k for marriage, or for retirement, 65k in total or a combination of transfer and money in the bank  as long as, for the IO, it adds up to over 800k. Well that's what my IO accepts, 50k per month plus 220k in the bank.

OK, it is a PITA having to go to Wises' receiving partner bank to get the Credit Advice to show that the money came from abroads, but I did it in 30 minutes at Kkn Bank for the first time this week, and now they know me and my needs it should only be minutes.

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

OK, it is a PITA having to go to Wises' receiving partner bank to get the Credit Advice to show that the money came from abroads, but I did it in 30 minutes at Kkn Bank for the first time this week, and now they know me and my needs it should only be minutes.

What do you have to specifically show K-bank in terms of documentation to allow them to zero in on your transfer since every second there are thousands of transfer occurring?  

 

Also, what is the K-bank fee per credit advice?

 

[Pumpuynarak]

24 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

OK, it is a PITA having to go to Wises' receiving partner bank to get the Credit Advice to show that the money came from abroads, but I did it in 30 minutes at Kkn Bank for the first time this week, and now they know me and my needs it should only be minutes.

Have you an account at Kkn bank and did you just show them the Wise PDF to substantiate your request ?

Also can you just visit any Kkn branch if you don't have an account with them ?

Edited October 21, 2021 by Pumpuynarak

[KannikaP]

6 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Have you an account at Kkn bank and did you just show them the Wise PDF to substantiate your request ?

Also can you just visit any Kkn branch if you don't have an account with them ?

I do not have a Kkn account so went to the one right next to my Bkk Bank with the Wise pdf statement.

[Pumpuynarak]

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

I do not have a Kkn account so went to the one right next to my Bkk Bank with the Wise pdf statement.

So maybe things are not so bad after all if these credit advices are that easily obtained. I take it that IO's will accept these credit advices where the transfers are not showing FTT codes.

Earlier today i have done a small transfer clicking on "funds for long term stay" AFTER having my BB account tagged a couple of days ago and it states the money will be in my account at 2pm, that would indicate to me it will be coded FTT as the transfer was not within seconds, we will see at 2pm.

[Pib]

28 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I do not have a Kkn account so went to the one right next to my Bkk Bank with the Wise pdf statement.

Any fee for the credit advice?

[Chris.B]

2 hours ago, Dante99 said:

Find a financial institution that offers free or low cost, 5-10 dollar SWIFT fees.  With these you will get almost the same Baht as WISE from the US to many Thai Banks.  Some possibilities:

 

Vanguard doesn’t charge a wire transfer fee if the amount of the wire is over $5,000; the fee is only $5 if the amount is between $1,000 and $5,000.

 

Fidelity doesn’t charge a wire transfer fee if your total household balance at Fidelity is above a certain amount ($15 otherwise).

 

Business checking accounts sometimes get free wire transfers. For example you get 10 free wire transfers every month (5 incoming, 5 outgoing) with HSBC’s free no-minimum-balance Business Direct checking account.

 

Some premium level personal checking accounts also give free wire transfers. For example if you have Premier Checking at Northwest Federal Credit Union ($50,000 minimum balance or $10 monthly fee), you get free outgoing domestic wire transfers.

 

Online wires sent to a bank outside the U.S. in foreign currency (FX) have no Chase wire fee for amounts equal to $5,000 USD or more or only a $5 Chase wire fee when less than $5,000 USD 

 

And more if you search.

 

 

 

These 'suggestions' always mention the transfer fee but never the exchange rate differences. It is the exchange rate which is important, not the transfer fee.

 

[Pib]

10 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

These 'suggestions' always mention the transfer fee but never the exchange rate differences. It is the exchange rate which is important, not the transfer fee.

 

Amen!  In many cases the low/free transfer fees (the tasty looking worn on the hook) and more than offset by the lower exchange rate when the sending bank requires you to do the currency conversion with them in order to get the low fee.    The Chase wire fee is a perfect example of that.  Sending banks love it when you allow them to do the conversion because their low exchange rate makes a nice profit for them at your expense.  Preach to the choir I know.

 

Additionally, I don't think most people have premium bank/financial accts where free/lower international wire fees are offered....or have a really high sum balances (i.e., like 100K USD or maybe even 1M USD)  which may qualify them for lower/free wire fees.

 

But back to the exchange rate thingie.  It's almost always better "not" to allow the home country sending bank to do the conversion; instead, send in your home country currency and let the receiving Thai bank give you their TT Buying Rates which is pretty good especially for USD....usually just a little below the interbank rate (i.e., the type of rate Wise gives). 

 

Like at this moment in time the Wise USD-THB rate is 33.40....the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate is 33.22 which is approx 0.5% lower than the Wise rate which would work out to around $12.50 on a $2,500 transfer.   But it's a different story for  GBP-THB...the Wise rate is 46.14 and the BBk TT Buying Rate is 45.69 which is approx 1% lower which works out 18GBP on an 1,800GBP transfer.   A 0.5% loss don't hurt much on a month Bt65K transfer but at 1% loss it starts to hurt IMO.....but we all have different pain levels....and I prefer to avoid any and all bankster-induced pain whenever possible.

 

[norbra]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

What's the 'Combo' method got to do with it please? You either send 40k for marriage, or for retirement, 65k in total or a combination of transfer and money in the bank  as long as, for the IO, it adds up to over 800k. Well that's what my IO accepts, 50k per month plus 220k in the bank.

OK, it is a PITA having to go to Wises' receiving partner bank to get the Credit Advice to show that the money came from abroads, but I did it in 30 minutes at Kkn Bank for the first time this week, and now they know me and my needs it should only be minutes.

Are you able to post a copy of the credit advice after deleting your personal information?

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, norbra said:

REad my previous post re this issue

so no then

[scubascuba3]

Anyone reply to [email protected] and get a reply back? they are pretty slow at replying, maybe swamped

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Any fee for the credit advice?

No.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, norbra said:

Are you able to post a copy of the credit advice after deleting your personal information?

Will PM to you.

 

[Pib]

On 10/19/2021 at 2:34 PM, Pib said:

 

Update on my request for Wise to tag another one of my Bangkok Bank accts.  As talked in an earlier post I requested the tagging on 14 Oct/Thursday....on 15 Oct/Friday I got an interim Wise human response basically saying they will forward my request to the their payments section to see if it's possible (of course its possible as I already have one tagged acct from over two years ago)....I sent a follow-up request on 17 Oct/Sunday asking for a tagging status update....today/19 Oct/Tuesday I got a Wise response saying the tagging was done.  So, it took 5 days to get the tagging done.  A few years ago when I asked to tag an acct it only took 2 days....but maybe this time the intervening weekend and COVID impacts slowed them down.  Anyway, tagging done.

 

This morning as a test I initiated two transfers. A transfer to one of my "untagged" Bangkok Bank accts and another transfer to my newly tagged Bangkok Bank acct.   I funded the transfers from my multicurrency acct and selected Long Stay Thailand reason for both transfers.   

 

The transfer to the "untagged" acct posted within seconds.  No int'l transfer coding and per Wise PDF Receipt K-bank used as the partner bank.   The choosing of the Long Stay Thailand reason for stay once again did not result in Int'l Transfer/FTT coding since Bangkok Bank was not used as the partner bank.  Up until a few weeks ago on an untagged acct by using the Long Stay Thailand reason it would  trigger use of Bangkok Bank as the partner bank and get you Int'l Transfer/FTT coding...but hey, that's not working right now...we know that already based on this and other threads.

 

Now the other transfer done a minute later to the newly "tagged" acct said it would post in 7 hours (i..e, which would be around 2pm Thailand time).  I knew  this meant  Bangkok Bank was being used as the partner bank and will result in Int'l Transfer/FTT coding...and sure enough at 2:02pm it posted as an Int'l Transfer/FTT....the Wise PDF Receipt shows Bangkok Bank used as the partner bank.

 

The results of the two transfers today mirror what happened last week when I did the same test to my other Bangkok Bank tagged acct which was tagged over 2 years ago and to an untagged Bangkok Bank acct. 

 

So, now if I want the funds within seconds and don't care about international transfer/FTT coding I will just send to one of my untagged accts and if I need FTT coding I will send to one of my tagged Bangkok Bank accts.

 

 

Another update: I did two more low value Wise transfers today/21 Oct.  Funded from my multi-currrency acct....reason for transfer used was General Monthly Expenses.  Done within a minute of each other. 

 

1st one to my "tagged" Bangkok Bank acct....right off the bat it said it would arrive in about 8 hours which equated to around 2pm...and it arrived 2:02pm...posted with Int'l Transfer/FTT coding.  Wise PDF Receipt shows Bangkok Bank used as the partner bank long before it actually posted.  Fully expect Wise gave instructions to deposit, but instead of immediate posting Bangkok Bank has some manual process and/or batch processing final step which results in posting a few minutes after 2pm and the Int'l Transfer coding.

 

2nd one to an "untagged " Bangkok Bank acct....it posted within seconds "without" Int'l Transfer coding...just Transfer from another Acct Bank coding...Wise PDF Receipts shows K-bank used as the partner bank.

 

Yeap...tagging continues to work as normal.

 

 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, norbra said:

Are you able to post a copy of the credit advice after deleting your personal information?

Below post has an example of a K-bank credit advice from Jan 2020 for a Wise transfer.  Expect their credit advice probably looks same-same today.

 

[norbra]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

Below post has an example of a K-bank credit advice from Jan 2020 for a Wise transfer.  Expect their credit advice probably looks same-same today.

 

It doesn't,that is the reason behind my request

[Pib]

27 minutes ago, norbra said:

It doesn't,that is the reason behind my request

Seems you are saying you know what a current one looks like...and saying it's different from a Jan 2020 example provided above (which is actually one of your old posts)   If so, if you already know what one looks like today why ask for a current example?   Maybe it's just me....I'm just not understanding what you are saying.  Maybe just so others can see a current version? 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Pib

[norbra]

8 minutes ago, Pib said:

Seems you are saying you know what a current one looks like...and saying it's different from a Jan 2020 example provided above (which is actually one of your old posts)   If so, if you already know what one looks like today why ask for a current example?   Maybe it's just me....I'm just not understanding what you are saying.  Maybe just so others can see a current version? 

IM having problems posting my latest credit advice,the format is somewhat different from the ones already posted,I was looking for forther information re transfers from a different country my latest transfer has AU printed under my name,hoping this means Australia

[Pib]

19 minutes ago, norbra said:

IM having problems posting my latest credit advice,the format is somewhat different from the ones already posted,I was looking for forther information re transfers from a different country my latest transfer has AU printed under my name,hoping this means Australia

OK...now I understand...I can be slow at times.  ????

[norbra]

38 minutes ago, Pib said:

OK...now I understand...I can be slow at times.  ????

11.pdf

My latest CA as a KBank customer this was emailed to me Following an instant transfer Marked for long stay in Thailand. Transfer direct to Kbank then local transfer to my Kbank account

Edited October 21, 2021 by norbra

[Pib]

35 minutes ago, norbra said:

11.pdf 113.49 kB · 8 downloads

My latest CA as a KBank customer this was emailed to me Following an instant transfer Marked for long stay in Thailand. Transfer direct to Kbank then local transfer to my Kbank account

I guess you "whited-out (redacted)" the transfer amount since all amount areas show zero?

[scubascuba3]

Some interesting posts on facebook, it seems Wise are trying to fix the problem by setting up the recipient more than once, once routed to BB so FTT other routing not

[scubascuba3]

Just got a reply from Wise.

 

They've tagged my account, I've done two transfers to BB using long term stay and general living expenses, both settling Monday, maybe due to holiday. I don't think the reason for transfer is relevant anymore but i thought I'd test it.

 

In the first paragraph he says BB has changed their procedures, it doesn't make total sense as he's tagged it

[skatewash]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Just got a reply from Wise.

 

They've tagged my account, I've done two transfers to BB using long term stay and general living expenses, both settling Monday, maybe due to holiday. I don't think the reason for transfer is relevant anymore but i thought I'd test it.

 

In the first paragraph he says BB has changed their procedures, it doesn't make total sense as he's tagged it

I always puzzled about how technically speaking a transfer from a Wise Bangkok Bank account to a customer's Bangkok Bank account was considered by Bangkok Bank as an international transfer (FTT).  If Bangkok Bank decided to reconsider how they are labeling that transaction it could be very bad news.  

[billd766]

I received my 2nd transfer this past week.

 

One last Friday and I transferred a small amount first and that worked OK so I transferred the rest with the same result. Wise to BBK bank and both payed on Monday. I used long term funds for staying in Thailand and both showed as international transfers.

 

I got another one yesterday to be transferred today. Same reason and same result.

 

It seems for me the Wise/BBK system works.

 

I have a third one due in Wise UK tomorrow and BBK on Monday afternoon.

[racyrick]

17 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Just got a reply from Wise.

 

They've tagged my account, I've done two transfers to BB using long term stay and general living expenses, both settling Monday, maybe due to holiday. I don't think the reason for transfer is relevant anymore but i thought I'd test it.

 

In the first paragraph he says BB has changed their procedures, it doesn't make total sense as he's tagged it

That is very scary because if that's true, we will no longer get the FTT coding at Bangkok Bank no matter what bank WISE uses. This is very disturbing. I guess you will find out Monday as your transfer definitely went directly to Bangkok Bank which is the good news. Let's hope what he said was wrong!!

[scubascuba3]

10 minutes ago, skatewash said:

I always puzzled about how technically speaking a transfer from a Wise Bangkok Bank account to a customer's Bangkok Bank account was considered by Bangkok Bank as an international transfer (FTT).  If Bangkok Bank decided to reconsider how they are labeling that transaction it could be very bad news.  

I think Wise, thai banks, Immigration are happy money comes from abroad so is International. It seems Bangkok bank has changed part of their procedure but can still do tagged transfers, so it's ok, assuming it all works

[skatewash]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I received my 2nd transfer this past week.

 

One last Friday and I transferred a small amount first and that worked OK so I transferred the rest with the same result. Wise to BBK bank and both payed on Monday. I used long term funds for staying in Thailand and both showed as international transfers.

 

I got another one yesterday to be transferred today. Same reason and same result.

 

It seems for me the Wise/BBK system works.

 

I have a third one due in Wise UK tomorrow and BBK on Monday afternoon.

Not to be the prophet of doom, but even if Wise were doing nothing for us at all, a certain number of Wise transfers would be marked by Bangkok Bank as FTT.  When that happens we don't know if the transfer was going to be marked FTT anyway (by following Wise's general algorithm) or whether Wise took notice of the special "tagging" and purpose of transfer and because of that changed something to make sure that it got marked as FTT.  We only know that when it's not marked FTT that the special handling didn't happen.  

[scubascuba3]

25 minutes ago, racyrick said:

That is very scary because if that's true, we will no longer get the FTT coding at Bangkok Bank no matter what bank WISE uses. This is very disturbing. I guess you will find out Monday as your transfer definitely went directly to Bangkok Bank which is the good news. Let's hope what he said was wrong!!

He was replying to my 2 questions, first one was why the long term reason for transfer process stopped and when will it be fixed, it's likely he was referring to that, BB aren't doing their part of the process anymore.

 

2nd question was requesting my account to be tagged and they set that up.

 

So, I reckon it's ok, nothing to worry about although it could change in the future, someone on Facebook is banging on about the central bank regulations have changed but couldn't back anything up