Phuket immigration very strict on retirement extension requirements

[xylophone]

Well @JetsetBkkand others, here is my latest update........ 

 

Just a quick recap: on Monday, 11 October I went to see my bank manager because I was anticipating getting my bank documentation in order so that I could renew my retirement extension a few days earlier than the 16th, which was the date.

 

The manager said it was lucky that I had come along early because he had several farangs who had been having problems with Phuket immigration, inasmuch as they now wanted 12 months record of transactions, and it would take a week for him to send to head office to get it, so he recommended coming back on the following Monday, which is today, so I did.

 

Before that, because I wanted to make sure I could get to immigration early enough, I checked out on the website of my main branch on what time they would open, and it stated 11 AM, so not ideal in order to get to immigration before lunchtime, but I scooted along, only to find that they had actually opened at 10 AM, so I suggested they might want to update their website!!

 

Anyway, taking the advice on here, I looked for the manager and couldn't see him, so whilst I was waiting I undertook a couple of transactions on both the everyday savings account and also the term account with which I had 803k in it, just to make sure everything was up-to-date before my visit to immigration.

 

Imagine my surprise when I was raring to go, that the manager appeared and said nothing had come through from head office so I should come back tomorrow (Tuesday), so as you can imagine I wasn't that happy.

 

Just a couple of pointers here........I have always used what the bank has given me in the past and it was always a copy of the transactions (over six months I believe) in my everyday savings account and immigration has always accepted it, but now they want 12 months of transactions!

 

Prior to this I have never undertaken a transaction in either account just prior to visiting immigration, so heeding the advice from other posters, I did this today, not knowing that I wouldn't be visiting immigration today.

 

All in all I was totally p1ssed off about it, so I drove the car to Central to do a bit of shopping and have a coffee and got to thinking.

 

Several people have posted on here that paying for an agent is a way to lose money, however that's not the case for me, and anyway money isn't the driving factor, peace of mind and a stress free existence are.

 

You see I have investments in NZ in a peer-to-peer lending scheme (secured against first mortgages with an LVR of lower than 50%, which pays 6.5% per annum) so if I took the 800k and invested it in this in NZ, I would have more than enough to pay the agent's fee every year, plus any other fees, and still be in pocket.

 

So I will see how this current situation pans out, hopefully being able to visit immigration tomorrow, and even if it sails through, I will definitely explore the agent route next year.

[Kopitiam]

30 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Well @JetsetBkkand others, here is my latest update........ 

 

Just a quick recap: on Monday, 11 October I went to see my bank manager because I was anticipating getting my bank documentation in order so that I could renew my retirement extension a few days earlier than the 16th, which was the date.

 

The manager said it was lucky that I had come along early because he had several farangs who had been having problems with Phuket immigration, inasmuch as they now wanted 12 months record of transactions, and it would take a week for him to send to head office to get it, so he recommended coming back on the following Monday, which is today, so I did.

 

Before that, because I wanted to make sure I could get to immigration early enough, I checked out on the website of my main branch on what time they would open, and it stated 11 AM, so not ideal in order to get to immigration before lunchtime, but I scooted along, only to find that they had actually opened at 10 AM, so I suggested they might want to update their website!!

 

Anyway, taking the advice on here, I looked for the manager and couldn't see him, so whilst I was waiting I undertook a couple of transactions on both the everyday savings account and also the term account with which I had 803k in it, just to make sure everything was up-to-date before my visit to immigration.

 

Imagine my surprise when I was raring to go, that the manager appeared and said nothing had come through from head office so I should come back tomorrow (Tuesday), so as you can imagine I wasn't that happy.

 

Just a couple of pointers here........I have always used what the bank has given me in the past and it was always a copy of the transactions (over six months I believe) in my everyday savings account and immigration has always accepted it, but now they want 12 months of transactions!

 

Prior to this I have never undertaken a transaction in either account just prior to visiting immigration, so heeding the advice from other posters, I did this today, not knowing that I wouldn't be visiting immigration today.

 

All in all I was totally p1ssed off about it, so I drove the car to Central to do a bit of shopping and have a coffee and got to thinking.

 

Several people have posted on here that paying for an agent is a way to lose money, however that's not the case for me, and anyway money isn't the driving factor, peace of mind and a stress free existence are.

 

You see I have investments in NZ in a peer-to-peer lending scheme (secured against first mortgages with an LVR of lower than 50%, which pays 6.5% per annum) so if I took the 800k and invested it in this in NZ, I would have more than enough to pay the agent's fee every year, plus any other fees, and still be in pocket.

 

So I will see how this current situation pans out, hopefully being able to visit immigration tomorrow, and even if it sails through, I will definitely explore the agent route next year.

xylo, you seem to have problems with your bank than with Phuket Immigration.  I use SCB and I have no problem getting a 12 month bank transaction on the spot before popping over to Phuket Immigration.  This 12 month bank transaction record was a requirement for the past 2 years.  You have been lucky to have got away with 6 month statement only.

 

I find the IOs at the Phuket Immigration for retirement extension very professional and reasonable if you provide all the document needed for your extension.  For my extension 2 months ago, I was sent back to the bank because the bank did not update my bank book.  The bank officer checked my bank balance online to issue the bank balance statement.  So the balance in my bank book and the bank statement doesn't tally.  IOs doing their job properly.

[skatewash]

48 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Well @JetsetBkkand others, here is my latest update........ 

 

Just a quick recap: on Monday, 11 October I went to see my bank manager because I was anticipating getting my bank documentation in order so that I could renew my retirement extension a few days earlier than the 16th, which was the date.

 

The manager said it was lucky that I had come along early because he had several farangs who had been having problems with Phuket immigration, inasmuch as they now wanted 12 months record of transactions, and it would take a week for him to send to head office to get it, so he recommended coming back on the following Monday, which is today, so I did.

 

Before that, because I wanted to make sure I could get to immigration early enough, I checked out on the website of my main branch on what time they would open, and it stated 11 AM, so not ideal in order to get to immigration before lunchtime, but I scooted along, only to find that they had actually opened at 10 AM, so I suggested they might want to update their website!!

 

Anyway, taking the advice on here, I looked for the manager and couldn't see him, so whilst I was waiting I undertook a couple of transactions on both the everyday savings account and also the term account with which I had 803k in it, just to make sure everything was up-to-date before my visit to immigration.

 

Imagine my surprise when I was raring to go, that the manager appeared and said nothing had come through from head office so I should come back tomorrow (Tuesday), so as you can imagine I wasn't that happy.

 

Just a couple of pointers here........I have always used what the bank has given me in the past and it was always a copy of the transactions (over six months I believe) in my everyday savings account and immigration has always accepted it, but now they want 12 months of transactions!

 

Prior to this I have never undertaken a transaction in either account just prior to visiting immigration, so heeding the advice from other posters, I did this today, not knowing that I wouldn't be visiting immigration today.

 

All in all I was totally p1ssed off about it, so I drove the car to Central to do a bit of shopping and have a coffee and got to thinking.

 

Several people have posted on here that paying for an agent is a way to lose money, however that's not the case for me, and anyway money isn't the driving factor, peace of mind and a stress free existence are.

 

You see I have investments in NZ in a peer-to-peer lending scheme (secured against first mortgages with an LVR of lower than 50%, which pays 6.5% per annum) so if I took the 800k and invested it in this in NZ, I would have more than enough to pay the agent's fee every year, plus any other fees, and still be in pocket.

 

So I will see how this current situation pans out, hopefully being able to visit immigration tomorrow, and even if it sails through, I will definitely explore the agent route next year.

I'm not sure how I could state this more clearly:

You need two documents from your bank:

1) a standard bank letter identifying you as owner of the account (in your name only), and the balance as of the date of the letter

2) Twelve (12) month signed/stamped bank statement.  And by the way, the bank statement must cover the entire 12 month period from your last extension application. 

(I know this is way too much information for some, but here goes anyway:  the REASON for wanting a bank statement that covers 12 months after your last extension application is that it is the best way for the immigration officer to confirm that you have complied with the regulations you signed up for when you applied for a retirement extension last year and for the extension you are applying for this year.  Namely: 800k minimum balance for two months before application and three months after the application, and for the rest of the year maintain a minimum balance of 400k. 

Copies of a bank book are problematic because of something called Consolidated Transactions which are entries made when there have been many transactions made without your passbook being updated.  A Consolidated Transaction entry shows the NET effect on the balance.  It is entirely possible that during the period covered by the Consolidated Transaction your balance went below the required minimum, there's no way of knowing this.  This is why immigration officers want to see a signed/stamped bank statement for a 12 month period because bank statements don't contain Consolidated Transactions.  Looking at a 12 month bank statement one can determine whether the applicant complied with the requirements of their extension or not.)

It's known that Bangkok Bank cannot usually provide a 12-month bank statement and that they only maintain transaction records for a customer's last six months of transactions at most branch banks.  So you need to request it (at least) a week before you plan to go for your extension because time is needed to receive your statement from Bangkok Headquarters.  Other banks don't seem to have this problem.  For example, my Krungsri Bank seems to be able to produce a 12-month bank statement for me that I can pick up the next day.

Which is why, in Phuket at least, you can go to immigration to apply for your new retirement extension 45 days before your permission to stay expires.  Go as early as possible and you have time to handle any expected and unexpected problems that may develop.  Time will not be your enemy, it will be on your side.

You will be unable to avoid losing money by paying an agent because you will be unable to find a bank anywhere in the world that is paying more than 3.74% APR for a savings account.  That's not my opinion, it's just an exercise in mathematics.  The only way you could attempt to avoid losing money by paying an agent is if you invested in something that is not insured, subject to market fluctuation, and does not guarantee the return of principle.  The money you pay to an agent is gone, it's not coming back for certain.  An investment outside of a bank savings account is subject to risk and uncertainty by definition.  That's why you get promised a higher return, otherwise no one would accept the higher risk. The return you do get is not a certainty.  You can end up with a very nice return.  You can also end up with a zero balance.

Edited October 18, 2021 by skatewash

[xylophone]

26 minutes ago, skatewash said:

I'm not sure how I could state this more clearly:

You need two documents from your bank:

1) a standard bank letter identifying you as owner of the account (in your name only), and the balance as of the date of the letter

2) Twelve (12) month signed/stamped bank statement.  And by the way, the bank statement must cover the entire 12 month period from your last extension application. 

(I know this is way too much information for some, but here goes anyway:  the REASON for wanting a bank statement that covers 12 months after your last extension application is that it is the best way for the immigration officer to confirm that you have complied with the regulations you signed up for when you applied for a retirement extension last year and for the extension you are applying for this year.  Namely: 800k minimum balance for two months before application and three months after the application, and for the rest of the year maintain a minimum balance of 400k. 

Copies of a bank book are problematic because of something called Consolidated Transactions which are entries made when there have been many transactions made without your passbook being updated.  A Consolidated Transaction entry shows the NET effect on the balance.  It is entirely possible that during the period covered by the Consolidated Transaction your balance went below the required minimum, there's no way of knowing this.  This is why immigration officers want to see a signed/stamped bank statement for a 12 month period because bank statements don't contain Consolidated Transactions.  Looking at a 12 month bank statement one can determine whether the applicant complied with the requirements of their extension or not.)

It's known that Bangkok Bank cannot usually provide a 12-month bank statement and that they only maintain transaction records for a customer's last six months of transactions at most branch banks.  So you need to request it (at least) a week before you plan to go for your extension because time is needed to receive your statement from Bangkok Headquarters.  Other banks don't seem to have this problem.  For example, my Krungsri Bank seems to be able to produce a 12-month bank statement for me that I can pick up the next day.

Which is why, in Phuket at least, you can go to immigration to apply for your new retirement extension 45 days before your permission to stay expires.  Go as early as possible and you have time to handle any expected and unexpected problems that may develop.  Time will not be your enemy, it will be on your side.

You will be unable to avoid losing money by paying an agent because you will be unable to find a bank anywhere in the world that is paying more than 3.74% APR for a savings account.  That's not my opinion, it's just an exercise in mathematics.  The only way you could attempt to avoid losing money by paying an agent is if you invested in something that is not insured, subject to market fluctuation, and does not guarantee the return of principle.  The money you pay to an agent is gone, it's not coming back for certain.  An investment outside of a bank savings account is subject to risk and uncertainty by definition.  That's why you get promised a higher return, otherwise no one would accept the higher risk. The return you do get is not a certainty.  You can end up with a very nice return.  You can also end up with a zero balance.

As I've already explained to you, you don't have to state this more clearly, because that's exactly what I get from my bank – – not only a statement covering the past 12 months, for my transactional account, but the statement covering the deposit account and a letter signed and stamped from the bank confirming all of that.

 

I don't know how much clearer I can be about this.

 

And you obviously didn't read my post because I will not lose money by paying an agent, simply because my 800k will be invested in my peer-to-peer lending in NZ which pays 6.5% per annum, relatively risk-free because it is covered by a law firm and the fact that the property has a lower than 50% LVR.

 

So by investing that money in NZ, rather than letting it languish at 0.3% here, I will be saving money.

 

Thank you for your advice on investing, however as I was the Chief Manager of Investments for a major New Zealand bank and started and built up a managed funds division which I started with $100,000 seed capital, and when I left the bank, the amount invested was just under $2 billion.

 

Therefore I fully understand the risk versus return aspect of investing, which is why I invested in this peer-to-peer lending situation, covered by a lien on the property and which is managed by a law firm, which has the ability to sell the property and land in the event of any default, which will more than recompense the investors.

 

 

[Kopitiam]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

As I've already explained to you, you don't have to state this more clearly, because that's exactly what I get from my bank – – not only a statement covering the past 12 months, for my transactional account, but the statement covering the deposit account and a letter signed and stamped from the bank confirming all of that.

 

I don't know how much clearer I can be about this.

 

And you obviously didn't read my post because I will not lose money by paying an agent, simply because my 800k will be invested in my peer-to-peer lending in NZ which pays 6.5% per annum, relatively risk-free because it is covered by a law firm and the fact that the property has a lower than 50% LVR.

 

So by investing that money in NZ, rather than letting it languish at 0.3% here, I will be saving money.

 

Thank you for your advice on investing, however as I was the Chief Manager of Investments for a major New Zealand bank and started and built up a managed funds division which I started with $100,000 seed capital, and when I left the bank, the amount invested was just under $2 billion.

 

Therefore I fully understand the risk versus return aspect of investing, which is why I invested in this peer-to-peer lending situation, covered by a lien on the property and which is managed by a law firm, which has the ability to sell the property and land in the event of any default, which will more than recompense the investors.

 

 

"And you obviously didn't read my post because I will not lose money by paying an agent, simply because my 800k will be invested in my peer-to-peer lending in NZ which pays 6.5% per annum, relatively risk-free because it is covered by a law firm and the fact that the property has a lower than 50% LVR."

 

Xylophone, I am very surprised that a man of your good standing in this forum would go the illegal way by using an agent without money in the bank to renew your extension.  Well, I guess when you have $2 billion, you can afford it.  But do give some thoughts to those who go by the book.  If I have the type of money that you have, I would go by the Elite Visa way and get the people there to do all my extension stress free.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Kopitiam said:

xylo, you seem to have problems with your bank than with Phuket Immigration.  I use SCB and I have no problem getting a 12 month bank transaction on the spot before popping over to Phuket Immigration.  This 12 month bank transaction record was a requirement for the past 2 years.  You have been lucky to have got away with 6 month statement only.

 

I find the IOs at the Phuket Immigration for retirement extension very professional and reasonable if you provide all the document needed for your extension.  For my extension 2 months ago, I was sent back to the bank because the bank did not update my bank book.  The bank officer checked my bank balance online to issue the bank balance statement.  So the balance in my bank book and the bank statement doesn't tally.  IOs doing their job properly.

Actually Kopitiam, I was with SCB for quite a while, and they stuffed some of my accounts up, especially when I was trying to send money back to NZ, as well as leaving me sitting behind one of their desks and one of their computers, trying to sort out an account in the branch, whilst the woman went to lunch, and just left me sitting there without uttering a word!

 

Absolutely unbelievable and when I asked one of the bank staff nearby what had happened to the woman who was supposed to be helping me, they basically said she'd gone to lunch! Customer service????

 

So I left SCB and went to Bangkok Bank and they've been very good so far, apart from the fact they cannot produce 12 months worth of transactions at the touch of a button – – in this day and age??

 

I have set up some direct credits at Bangkok Bank for my daughters education, University and room fees, not to mention paying some distributors for my wine. as well as a few others, so I'm a bit reluctant to change, and I'm just hoping that they will shortly sort this out.

 

OR, of course now that I know that there is a lead time of one week, at least I can plan around that in the future, if there is one as regards my interaction with immigration.

 

5 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

Xylophone, I am very surprised that a man of your good standing in this forum would go the illegal way by using an agent without money in the bank to renew your extension.  Well, I guess when you have $2 billion, you can afford it.

In my dreams Kopitiam........unfortunately the $2 billion was not mine but was invested by clients in the funds I and another guy put together for the Investment Division of the bank! Nice thought though!

 

As has been posted here and elsewhere with regards to the use of an agent, it is not illegal to use an agent, because the agent basically gets the sign off by a senior officer in the immigration office, who is allowed to use their discretion with regards to matters like this and sign off anything they want with or without proof of funds.

 

If you search hard enough you will find the Immigration directive which states this, so those folk using agents are doing so legally for whatever reason they choose.

 

Thank you for the compliment with regards to "a man of your good standing", and I do believe I am a person like this, as for the past 15 years I've been abiding by every rule, regulation, quirk and bloody mindedness by immigration (you may wish to refer to a previous post whereby I followed everything correctly, but the I/O said I was not to use the 50% in the bank and 50% from overseas method again, mainly I think because he didn't like looking through the pages I had produced showing my overseas income).

 

Finally, I left a high-powered and stressful job because I didn't want any stress in my life again, and I find this immigration stuff to be a stress, albeit once a year, and although I don't have $2 billion, I can afford to pay an agent and not really worry about the cost, after all it's about what I spend on wine in a month, so it won't really be missed.

[DrDave]

I'm curious. Aside from bribing Immigration (as evidenced by the handover of money in excess of the extension fee mentioned in previous posts), what other service does an agent provide?

[xylophone]

4 minutes ago, DrDave said:

I'm curious. Aside from bribing Immigration (as evidenced by the handover of money in excess of the extension fee mentioned in previous posts), what other service does an agent provide?

A loaded question DrDave, and one could look at it like that, but also of course one could look at the fact that they can issue you a retirement extension whether you have the required 800k or not, so money changing hands could well be construed as a "handling fee"........................!!!!!! 

 

Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

And as for the other service, well you don't have to wait in line along with a whole bunch of other potentially Covid infected reprobates; you don't have to deal face-to-face with an I/O officer; you get your passport back the same day and all of the paperwork is put in order and vetted by the agent, so there's no waiting around.

 

There are benefits.

[Kopitiam]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Actually Kopitiam, I was with SCB for quite a while, and they stuffed some of my accounts up, especially when I was trying to send money back to NZ, as well as leaving me sitting behind one of their desks and one of their computers, trying to sort out an account in the branch, whilst the woman went to lunch, and just left me sitting there without uttering a word!

 

Absolutely unbelievable and when I asked one of the bank staff nearby what had happened to the woman who was supposed to be helping me, they basically said she'd gone to lunch! Customer service????

 

So I left SCB and went to Bangkok Bank and they've been very good so far, apart from the fact they cannot produce 12 months worth of transactions at the touch of a button – – in this day and age??

 

I have set up some direct credits at Bangkok Bank for my daughters education, University and room fees, not to mention paying some distributors for my wine. as well as a few others, so I'm a bit reluctant to change, and I'm just hoping that they will shortly sort this out.

 

OR, of course now that I know that there is a lead time of one week, at least I can plan around that in the future, if there is one as regards my interaction with immigration.

 

In my dreams Kopitiam........unfortunately the $2 billion was not mine but was invested by clients in the funds I and another guy put together for the Investment Division of the bank! Nice thought though!

 

As has been posted here and elsewhere with regards to the use of an agent, it is not illegal to use an agent, because the agent basically gets the sign off by a senior officer in the immigration office, who is allowed to use their discretion with regards to matters like this and sign off anything they want with or without proof of funds.

 

If you search hard enough you will find the Immigration directive which states this, so those folk using agents are doing so legally for whatever reason they choose.

 

Thank you for the compliment with regards to "a man of your good standing", and I do believe I am a person like this, as for the past 15 years I've been abiding by every rule, regulation, quirk and bloody mindedness by immigration (you may wish to refer to a previous post whereby I followed everything correctly, but the I/O said I was not to use the 50% in the bank and 50% from overseas method again, mainly I think because he didn't like looking through the pages I had produced showing my overseas income).

 

Finally, I left a high-powered and stressful job because I didn't want any stress in my life again, and I find this immigration stuff to be a stress, albeit once a year, and although I don't have $2 billion, I can afford to pay an agent and not really worry about the cost, after all it's about what I spend on wine in a month, so it won't really be missed.

Xylophone, I empathise with you with the situation with the banks.  Like you said, when you know ahead, your can give it more time to the the docs in time.

As for the legality of using agents especially when you don't meet the financial requirement for your retirement extension, you are passing the buck to the IOs.  Basically encouraging corruption.  Yes, the IOs have some discretion in overlooking some minor issues like going under the 400k for a day (honest mistake).  But without financial requirement at all is a looong stretch.

[Kopitiam]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

A loaded question DrDave, and one could look at it like that, but also of course one could look at the fact that they can issue you a retirement extension whether you have the required 800k or not, so money changing hands could well be construed as a "handling fee"........................!!!!!! 

 

Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

And as for the other service, well you don't have to wait in line along with a whole bunch of other potentially Covid infected reprobates; you don't have to deal face-to-face with an I/O officer; you get your passport back the same day and all of the paperwork is put in order and vetted by the agent, so there's no waiting around.

 

There are benefits.

It is ok to use an agent if you have all the required paperwork and do not want to face the IOs.  But to pay 22k for that service?

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

Yes, the IOs have some discretion in overlooking some minor issues like going under the 400k for a day (honest mistake).  But without financial requirement at all is a looong stretch.

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree on that, because the directive for the immigration Department basically says that the chief immigration officer has the discretion to grant a retirement extension, without proof of funds.

 

I didn't make the rules, and if they can do that, that's what they can do!

 

5 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

It is ok to use an agent if you have all the required paperwork and do not want to face the IOs.  But to pay 22k for that service?

From my perspective, for a stress free transaction, without any hassle and delivered on the same day, it's 22k well spent!

[skatewash]

8 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

 

From my perspective, for a stress free transaction, without any hassle and delivered on the same day, it's 22k well spent!

Or, you could do it yourself without an agent and pick up your extension and passport the next day for 1,900 baht.  Personally, I would find the operation to remove 22,000 baht from my wallet to be very stressful and wouldn't want to attempt major surgery like that without ample anesthesia.

 

[Andre0720]

15 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

Xylophone, I empathise with you with the situation with the banks.  Like you said, when you know ahead, your can give it more time to the the docs in time.

As for the legality of using agents especially when you don't meet the financial requirement for your retirement extension, you are passing the buck to the IOs.  Basically encouraging corruption.  Yes, the IOs have some discretion in overlooking some minor issues like going under the 400k for a day (honest mistake).  But without financial requirement at all is a long stretch.

"when you don't meet the financial requirement for your retirement extension, you are passing the buck to the IOs.  Basically encouraging corruption."

You are so wrong, it is worth a laugh.

Of course, it might just be because you know so little about Immigration here in Thailand.

In reality, it is impossible in many instances to obtain a permission to stay.

Like the volunteer at the immigration office told me, 'You cannot by yourself obtain a permission to stay. Go see an Agent, they will fix it up for you'.

The system is made so that money is spent in the background. Simple as that.

So please keep your opinions to yourself, and educate yourself about how the system works here...

[Andre0720]

26 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

It is ok to use an agent if you have all the required paperwork and do not want to face the IOs.  But to pay 22k for that service?

Hey again. I tried it.

You go to immigration, they explain what you need. You go back, oh, the form you filled were superseded, and are NOT DATED. So why did they give me the wrong forms the first time???

Oh ok. Get the right ones, go back, to hear, 'Oh, you did not get an embassy letter". Then the small voice in my head screams 'Why did you not tell me that also the last time I was here 3 days ago.

Then I get it. They will do all in their power for you to fail.

Some succeed, I have seen it, But must be people very close to their bahts...

I quit myself. Cost was 12,000 actually. Worth every satang if you ask me...

[Kopitiam]

27 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree on that, because the directive for the immigration Department basically says that the chief immigration officer has the discretion to grant a retirement extension, without proof of funds.

 

I didn't make the rules, and if they can do that, that's what they can do!

 

From my perspective, for a stress free transaction, without any hassle and delivered on the same day, it's 22k well spent!

"I didn't make the rules, and if they can do that, that's what they can do!"

 

I don't want to argue with that.  I just do not like to see the Phuket Immigration develops into situation like in Pattaya or Bangkok.

 

"From my perspective, for a stress free transaction, without any hassle and delivered on the same day, it's 22k well spent! "

 

It's your money, so long you are happy with it.  Good for you.  And I am sure you won't miss drinking red wine for a month.

[Badrabbit]

12 extensions and never had a problem, always check what is required before  I apply, always have a statement that shows a full year.

I've watched people turn up without a Bank letter and get annoyed when told " Go to bank and get letter etc" how difficult is it to check a few weeks before extension is due as to what is required! 

[Kopitiam]

19 minutes ago, Andre0720 said:

"when you don't meet the financial requirement for your retirement extension, you are passing the buck to the IOs.  Basically encouraging corruption."

You are so wrong, it is worth a laugh.

Of course, it might just be because you know so little about Immigration here in Thailand.

In reality, it is impossible in many instances to obtain a permission to stay.

Like the volunteer at the immigration office told me, 'You cannot by yourself obtain a permission to stay. Go see an Agent, they will fix it up for you'.

The system is made so that money is spent in the background. Simple as that.

So please keep your opinions to yourself, and educate yourself about how the system works here...

For the last 10 years of renewing my retirement extension, I have not paid anything more than the 1900THB for each extension.  Go figure.

[Badrabbit]

1 minute ago, Kopitiam said:

For the last 10 years of renewing my retirement extension, I have not paid anything more than the 1900THB for each extension.  Go figure.

Same here never paid more than the 1900bht, of course you pay for the bank letter and statement which is a few hundred bht.

[Kopitiam]

11 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Same here never paid more than the 1900bht, of course you pay for the bank letter and statement which is a few hundred bht.

You have forgotten the costs of photocopies and photos.

[Andre0720]

9 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Same here never paid more than the 1900bht, of course you pay for the bank letter and statement which is a few hundred bht.

Yes you are quite right, but for you, in your case. You have been doing a renewal, in the same fashion, for many years, in accordance with the given rules. IO know you, in a quick glance know that your case is a standard one, and they will proceed quickly, according to the rules.

But there are people, mainly because of the Covid 19 problem, who could not follow these rules, as it was impossible to do so. Not having the required type of visa as a pre-requisite for example. Henceforth the use of Agents.

[skatewash]

30 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

You have forgotten the costs of photocopies and photos.

I do almost everything myself but I have to draw the line somewhere and for me that line is photocopies and photos.  I don't do copies and photos, it's a mug's game.  I don't dance to that tune.  I have a photocopiest and photologist on retainer.  Have you ever tried to use one of those copy machines all by yourself?  I put a page in one time and it came out completely upside down!  Very confusing and quite stressful.  It's almost impossible to make your own copies.  I could tell you stories of people trying to make their own copies that would curl your hair.  They were so frustrated!  I didn't move to Phuket to experience this kind of humiliation.  I just let my photocopiest and photologist handle things.  For me, it's money well-spent. ????

Edited October 18, 2021 by skatewash

[KarenBravo]

2 hours ago, Andre0720 said:

"when you don't meet the financial requirement for your retirement extension, you are passing the buck to the IOs.  Basically encouraging corruption."

You are so wrong, it is worth a laugh.

Of course, it might just be because you know so little about Immigration here in Thailand.

In reality, it is impossible in many instances to obtain a permission to stay.

Like the volunteer at the immigration office told me, 'You cannot by yourself obtain a permission to stay. Go see an Agent, they will fix it up for you'.

The system is made so that money is spent in the background. Simple as that.

So please keep your opinions to yourself, and educate yourself about how the system works here...

Why? I do it myself every year with no problems.

Maybe it's you that doesn't know how things work?

Do you live in Phuket? Have you ever used Phuket immigration?

[JetsetBkk]

13 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Phuket immigration is one of the best. Never had a problem and have always been treated well by the I/O's.

I like the "joker" guy outside room 103 who checks your papers - usually have a laugh with him when I go for the yearly extension.

[JetsetBkk]

21 hours ago, skatewash said:

I earn 1% APR on my Retirement Extension Bank Account, so with a starting principle of 800,000 I would have after 9 years of accumulating interest a balance of 874,948 baht.

I did a rough Google search to come up with 50% growth after 18 years: https://www.inflationtool.com/british-pound/2003-to-present-value 

 

This is isn't the one I found, but near enough. This is more like inflation rather than bank investment.

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by JetsetBkk

[JetsetBkk]

13 hours ago, skatewash said:

my Krungsri Bank Mee Tae Dai savings account

I've got one of them. ????

[JetsetBkk]

12 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

13 hours ago, skatewash said:

Of course you've never experienced any of those things.  That's because you go to Room 103 to get your retirement extension.  

But If you had gone in the back of the building, entered the door labeled "abandon hope all ye who enter here" and descended into the dungeon under the "regular" immigration office you would have had a much different experience.  That's where you would have experienced the ritual humiliation and all the other bad things.  One only has to witness the degradation and listen to the wails of the condemned one time and you'll be using an agent the rest of your time in Thailand.

Expand  

Not really. I go to the big room 101 for my re-entry permit. Also, before I went the retirement route, I regularly had to go to room 101. Never problems, just the time it took to do anything.

I think SkateWash was having a laugh!  ????

[JetsetBkk]

What a great thread!  

 

8 hours ago, Kopitiam said:

I use SCB and I have no problem getting a 12 month bank transaction on the spot before popping over to Phuket Immigration.

That's my "Fixed deposit account" bank. But I usually photocopy everything back home before going to immi. the following day.

 

8 hours ago, skatewash said:

in Phuket at least, you can go to immigration to apply for your new retirement extension 45 days before your permission to stay expires.

Good to know ????.  Might try that next year.

 

4 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

12 extensions and never had a problem,

18 for me. Or is it 19? Just the change to 12 months' bank statement caught me out once.

 

3 hours ago, skatewash said:

Have you ever tried to use one of those copy machines all by yourself?

???? Such a joker!

 

[xylophone]

11 hours ago, Kopitiam said:

For the last 10 years of renewing my retirement extension, I have not paid anything more than the 1900THB for each extension.  Go figure.

For the past 16 years of renewing my retirement extension on my own, I have never paid anything other than the norm, this despite having a few grumpy I/Os making things difficult for me (I have posted about them, so they are there for all to see).

 

One of these was where the I/O wanted a 500 baht "bribe" for something which should have been free, and when I queried it, he made my life hell. Yet whilst there are folks on this thread who rail against people using the agent route, because they say it is encouraging corruption, some of these people have suggested that I should have paid the 500 baht bribe and let things go, in order to make things easy on myself??

 

So which way is it? I think it's important to remember that immigration have designed a process in which they have built a loophole. These are the people that control whether I stay here, and in my case whether I continue to see and support my Thai daughter, or whether I leave the country, so they control my future here.

 

The fact is that they have designed a system which has a loophole to allow expats to stay here, even going as far as to recommend an agent if one doesn't have the financial requirements (which I do), and this was what was said to me one time when I was doing my 90 day report and I mentioned that my retirement extension was due shortly; "Papa, if you don't have enough money for your retirement extension, then come and see me and I can fix it for you".

 

So agents are part and parcel of the mix whether one likes it or not, although I have never used one.

 

I started this thread because a friend of mine had to use an agent because he was refused an extension by an I/O, and he is still not sure why, but it was impossible for him to go back to his own country and do a re-entry, so he paid the agent and it was done for him.

 

In my case, I got a call from my friendly bank manager last night telling me that my transaction reports for my bank accounts were waiting for me to pick up, which I will do today and then trundle off to immigration, complete with all of the forms filled out as per immigration requirements, and all of the bank paperwork filled out as per immigration requirements and see what happens.

 

Hopefully it will be plain sailing, but should I get any hassle, then I have the phone number of an agent and I will phone them.

 

I do have the means to be able to fulfil the financial requirements here, in fact many times over, and would gladly do so if I am able.

 

There have been some helpful posts, but some have been unhelpful, with one even going so far as to write a couple of "books" about what should be done and what shouldn't be done, even though I have successfully completed the process far more times than he has! He even offered some investment advice, which I had to smile at given my previous position, LOL.
 

11 hours ago, Kopitiam said:

It's your money, so long you are happy with it.  Good for you.  And I am sure you won't miss drinking red wine for a month.

Yes, I will do whatever I have to do in order to stay here and support my Thai daughter and secure her future.

 

And for the record I won't have to miss drinking red wine for a month because that scenario doesn't feature for me, and my calculation is that I can go on spending my 1.2 million baht per annum here until I reach the age of 103, which would probably be a bit of a stretch, however drinking red wine is supposed to be healthy, in moderation, so who knows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

[skatewash]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

For the past 16 years of renewing my retirement extension on my own, I have never paid anything other than the norm, this despite having a few grumpy I/Os making things difficult for me (I have posted about them, so they are there for all to see).

 

One of these was where the I/O wanted a 500 baht "bribe" for something which should have been free, and when I queried it, he made my life hell. Yet whilst there are folks on this thread who rail against people using the agent route, because they say it is encouraging corruption, some of these people have suggested that I should have paid the 500 baht bribe and let things go, in order to make things easy on myself??

 

So which way is it? I think it's important to remember that immigration have designed a process in which they have built a loophole. These are the people that control whether I stay here, and in my case whether I continue to see and support my Thai daughter, or whether I leave the country, so they control my future here.

 

The fact is that they have designed a system which has a loophole to allow expats to stay here, even going as far as to recommend an agent if one doesn't have the financial requirements (which I do), and this was what was said to me one time when I was doing my 90 day report and I mentioned that my retirement extension was due shortly; "Papa, if you don't have enough money for your retirement extension, then come and see me and I can fix it for you".

 

So agents are part and parcel of the mix whether one likes it or not, although I have never used one.

 

I started this thread because a friend of mine had to use an agent because he was refused an extension by an I/O, and he is still not sure why, but it was impossible for him to go back to his own country and do a re-entry, so he paid the agent and it was done for him.

 

In my case, I got a call from my friendly bank manager last night telling me that my transaction reports for my bank accounts were waiting for me to pick up, which I will do today and then trundle off to immigration, complete with all of the forms filled out as per immigration requirements, and all of the bank paperwork filled out as per immigration requirements and see what happens.

 

Hopefully it will be plain sailing, but should I get any hassle, then I have the phone number of an agent and I will phone them.

 

I do have the means to be able to fulfil the financial requirements here, in fact many times over, and would gladly do so if I am able.

 

There have been some helpful posts, but some have been unhelpful, with one even going so far as to write a couple of "books" about what should be done and what shouldn't be done, even though I have successfully completed the process far more times than he has! He even offered some investment advice, which I had to smile at given my previous position, LOL.
 

Yes, I will do whatever I have to do in order to stay here and support my Thai daughter and secure her future.

 

And for the record I won't have to miss drinking red wine for a month because that scenario doesn't feature for me, and my calculation is that I can go on spending my 1.2 million baht per annum here until I reach the age of 103, which would probably be a bit of a stretch, however drinking red wine is supposed to be healthy, in moderation, so who knows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Lots of people manage to follow the rules and get their extensions of stay approved at Phuket Immigration every day they're open.  Here's hoping you're one of them.  And if you're not you could always use an agent.

[JetsetBkk]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

I will do today and then trundle off to immigration, complete with all of the forms filled out as per immigration requirements, and all of the bank paperwork filled out as per immigration requirements and see what happens.

Can't wait for the next episode! Best of luck!

 

 

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

drinking red wine is supposed to be healthy, in moderation, so who knows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After my 2 Leo's and half a bottle of J.J.McWilliams' Shiraz last night, I can definitely say it's not healthy! ????

 

 

2 hours ago, skatewash said:

Lots of people manage to follow the rules and get their extensions of stay approved at Phuket Immigration every day they're open.  Here's hoping you're one of them.  And if you're not you could always use an agent.

Exactly - the "last resort" option.  (Hope I don't need it.)