The future is electric: your questions about EVs answered

[webfact]

 

Now that auto companies are rolling out more and more electric vehicles (EVs) onto the Thai market, the real question is whether the time has come for Thai consumers to purchase an EV.

 

First there’s the cost. Prices of EV models in Thailand are generally high when compared to those with internal combustion engines (ICE) as they are mostly offered by luxury car brands,but manufacturers from China such as MG and Great Wall Motors (GWM) are offering more affordable options.

 

MG has been offering the electrified version of the ZS small SUV as well as the EP estate, and the latest member to join the race is ORA, a sub–brand of GWM, one of China’s largest auto manufacturers.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/the-future-is-electric-your-questions-about-evs-answered/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2021-11-01

 

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[OneMoreFarang]

It looks like she wants to shower that car.

[NanaSomchai]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It looks like she wants to shower that car.

I wouldn't mind she showers me. ????

[RichardColeman]

Just out of interest , what will happen to the million gas station workers sat on their stools, two to a pump waiting for your arrival to give you petrol if you can charge your car at home ? 

Edited October 31, 2021 by RichardColeman

[OneMoreFarang]

28 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Just out of interest , what will happen to the million gas station workers sat on their stools, two to a pump waiting for your arrival to give you petrol if you can charge your car at home ? 

They will walk over to the lottery ticket vendors and discuss the numbers with all the others.

[Willy Wombat]

EV cars are a rip off in Australia.

I can’t imagine their cost in Thailand.

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Just out of interest , what will happen to the million gas station workers sat on their stools, two to a pump waiting for your arrival to give you petrol if you can charge your car at home ? 

That's something that will be taken care of if the Chinese way comes to the forefront - and it really should.

 

The biggest drawback electric vehicles are:

 

Charging - there are various methods and speeds but all involve the vehicle being out of action for a period.

 

Charging Infrastructure/Supply - imagine what's needed in terms of charging points and power supplies as electric cars become more widespread.  I think its going to be mayhem - people fighting for charging points in cities, being late because they couldn't find one, charging points out of order - etc. etc.  To enable adequate charging points means one hell of a lot of disruption. Can you imagine the amount of work involved to cover the millions of cars on our roads?  Roads dug up and cables laid for many many years.  Overhead cables across countryside. Many homes don't have the power supply to enable anything other than slow charging - more cables and more roads dug up to fix that.  Do the electricity generators have enough capacity to cope with the demand created by the switch to electric?  What plans have they to achieve it and what fuel source will they use........Coal? Gas?

 

Range - many manufactures make wild claims about the range their vehicles will cover before needing charging but in real world situations, with the lights, heater or aircon on, many of them have quite poor ranges. Admittedly that will no doubt improve.

 

Cost/Future Value - electric cars are coming down in price but they remain mega expensive compared to their combustion engined counterparts.  Battery technology is advancing but its unlikely that they will ever last the life of the car, so whay could you be facing?  There was a story in the UK recently where a guy with an electric car just couldn't sell it.  It was 5 years old and although the manufacturer said the batteries should last 10 years, they needed replacing at 5. The cost was £5000 rendering the vehicle more or less worthless.  There is talk of batteries being able to last 20 years in the not so distant future but the manufacturer would have to guarantee that for me to believe it.

 

There is an answer to most of the problems and I'd love to claim its my idea but its not.  Its also one that the car manufacturers will reject because they all want to claim their technology is the best but all of that is rubbish. Most of us currently drive petrol and diesel vehicles and go to the same place to replenish our fuel supply - a service station.

 

For many years I've thought, why charge the battery, why not change it?  The Chinese already have a system where you drive into a service station, up on to a ramp, your old battery is taken out (from underneath) and a new one fitted - they are also working on other very similar schemes.  At the moment its taking around 15 minutes to complete the task but no doubt it will get faster.

 

No need for home charging points, much less infrastructure to install and therefore less road digging.  No more worries about the value of your car because of the age of its battery and we already have the land - currently in use as petrol stations.  Yes there'd be queueing but I think it will be far less than its likely to take to find a charging point.  The stations would have to have fast chargers and enough storage space but it seems like a much better idea than we currently have.  For those that wanted to charge at home - I don't see why that could not also be possible.

 

Governments need to look into this and look into it fast - before we get too far down the road its going down now.  The car makers will put up a hell of a fight but they can be put in their place.  I can't see any reason why such a scheme could not go ahead.

 

Here's one of the Chinese projects:

 

https://www.electrive.com/2021/09/27/geely-rolls-out-battery-swapping-stations-in-china/

Edited October 31, 2021 by KhaoYai

[Gold Star]

Only a few can afford it, and many do not have a place to charge it.

Lower the price, and have wireless charging.

Only then may it possibly have a chance.

[lujanit]

Sandy Munro discussing the future of ICE and EV's.  Quite interesting.

 

 

[Geoffggi]

As KhaoYai has already pointed out the problem will be infrastructure, it is already a big problem in the UK as many rapid charging points were not working or there were an insufficient number of charging points, charging times are long (almost an hour to charge up in some cases) but critically the power generation will need to be greatly increased throughout Thailand & not just in Bangkok, otherwise the vehicle recovery trucks will be kept very busy. 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Gold Star said:

Only a few can afford it, and many do not have a place to charge it.

Lower the price, and have wireless charging.

Only then may it possibly have a chance.

Can a basic sedan car:

 

- Be charged at a home which has been wired correctly?

 

- Or should it be a home which has properly wired for 3 phase?

 

- Or ?  at home?

[sirineou]

Last I checked the GWM Ora EV was to be sold for 1,2 million baht. 

From  the looks of it looks to be comparable to a 600K ICE car , only with a few more bells and whistles but the range and charging time of an EV.

So you would be spending an extra 600k to save How much in fuel? 

If you spend 60k a year in fuel , it would Take you more than 10 years to recover the extra 600k. 

And for that you would have to put up with limited range, and charging time and issues. 

How much life would the vehicle have left after 10 years?

Where would EV battery technology be in 10 years? 

[Geoffggi]

As KhaoYai has already pointed out the problem will be infrastructure, it is already a big problem in the UK as charging times are long (Somtimes up to 1 hour) in addition, charging points not working or connection problems but the main concern will be having a sufficient electricity supply for the whole country and not just Bangkok

[Tim207]

Reducing carbon by using electric vehicles is a bit like going on a diet and eating at restaraunts so that it isnt you adding all the sugar and oil to your food.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

The Chinese already have a system where you drive into a service station, up on to a ramp, your old battery is taken out (from underneath) and a new one fitted

Sounds like a good idea. Except how many different battery models will all those cars have?

Looking now at mobile phones and how many different battery models they use gives us a good idea how that will work...

[bigupandchill]

Do we really have a choice? This shows no2 from vehicle exhaust.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by bigupandchill

[Wiggy]

Hydrogen fuel cells (HFC) are the future. EVs will die out slowly as the infrastructure is too great and complicated to support it. Imagine, in the UK for example, where street parking is very common; how can you have a charger in place for every car on the street? It’s nigh on impossible. And used batteries are hardly ‘green’. Toyota are investing massively in HFC technology and is also the main reason why Honda are pulling out of F1; to focus on HFC development. They’re doing it for a reason.  Plus, current fuel stations can easily be converted to provide hydrogen. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Can a basic sedan car:

 

- Be charged at a home which has been wired correctly?

 

- Or should it be a home which has properly wired for 3 phase?

 

- Or ?  at home?

It can be charged, the question is how fast.

If people have a "normal" electric vehicle and leave it the whole night in their garage and charge it the whole night that is fine.

But it's often not fine anymore if they don't have the whole night, or two cars, or one or more powerful electric cars. Then houses need higher rated power supplies. And if that happens with too many houses in the same area then the district needs stronger cables, and and and.

The scale is the big problem.

[OneMoreFarang]

I hope they will install some speakers outside on those vehicles. Now it happens sometimes that one of those quiet stealthy EV drives next to me and I had no idea it was coming. 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Wiggy said:

Hydrogen fuel cells (HFC) are the future. EVs will die out slowly as the infrastructure is too great and complicated to support it. Imagine, in the UK for example, where street parking is very common; how can you have a charger in place for every car on the street? It’s nigh on impossible. And used batteries are hardly ‘green’. Toyota are investing massively in HFC technology and is also the main reason why Honda are pulling out of F1; to focus on HFC development. They’re doing it for a reason.  Plus, current fuel stations can easily be converted to provide hydrogen. 

If battery technology were standing still, you'd have a better point. But solid state battery technology is advancing rapidly. One of the consequences of that is that it should be possible to charge batteries quickly at an EV filling station.

 

And the recycling issue is already being successfully addressed.

Using recycled cathodes makes better lithium batteries, study finds

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/10/using-recycled-cathodes-makes-better-lithium-batteries-study-finds/

 

Ford signs deal with Redwood Materials to recycle EV Batteries 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/22/ford-signs-deal-with-redwood-materials-to-recycle-ev-batteries-.html

[sirineou]

29 minutes ago, Tim207 said:

Reducing carbon by using electric vehicles is a bit like going on a diet and eating at restaraunts so that it isnt you adding all the sugar and oil to your food.

Yea but you reduced the heat from your house. 

even if we are to accept the preposition that producing the electricity to power EVs is as polluting as ICE cars which is not since some of the electricity is produced from non polluting sources. where all of the fuel from ICE vehicles is polluting.

  But even if we are to accept your false proposition. such pollution will not be concentrated  where you live and breathe.  

[sathornlover]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Can a basic sedan car:

 

- Be charged at a home which has been wired correctly?

yes 

15A = 3,3kW, 30A = 6,6 kW single phase

 

Quote

- Or should it be a home which has properly wired for 3 phase?

 

>7kW 3 phase

 

You can apply for a separate electricity meter at your electricity provider the night rate will be charged at ~2.5bath ...

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by sathornlover

[tingtongfarang]

40 minutes ago, Wiggy said:

Hydrogen fuel cells (HFC) are the future. EVs will die out slowly as the infrastructure is too great and complicated to support it. Imagine, in the UK for example, where street parking is very common; how can you have a charger in place for every car on the street? It’s nigh on impossible. And used batteries are hardly ‘green’. Toyota are investing massively in HFC technology and is also the main reason why Honda are pulling out of F1; to focus on HFC development. They’re doing it for a reason.  Plus, current fuel stations can easily be converted to provide hydrogen. 

 

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It looks like she wants to shower that car.

Thanks for clearing that up, I thought it was a remote control for an appliance of some sort.

Being all electric-n-all. 

[mrmicbkktxl]

EV under 20000$, range fully charged 700km up,charging full in less than 5 minutes,enough charge stations,free disposal service for battery. Which brand and model can offer that?

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Can a basic sedan car:

 

- Be charged at a home which has been wired correctly?

 

- Or should it be a home which has properly wired for 3 phase?

 

- Or ?  at home?

I hope they install all the public charging points on a hill... especially in Nakhon Ratchasima and the like.

 

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Now that auto companies are rolling out more and more electric vehicles (EVs) onto the Thai market, the real question is whether the time has come for Thai consumers to purchase an EV

Buy an EV to become green, and the coal burning power stations will have to ramp up to meet the demand?

[tingtongfarang]

1 minute ago, hotchilli said:

Buy an EV to become green, and the coal burning power stations will have to ramp up to meet the demand?

 

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, bigupandchill said:

Do we really have a choice? This shows no2 from vehicle exhaust.

 

That'll all get sorted in a few years when sea level gets high enough.

[edwinchester]

4 hours ago, Willy Wombat said:

EV cars are a rip off in Australia.

I can’t imagine their cost in Thailand.

They're a rip off plus tax.