https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/poll-finding/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-media-and-misinformation/

 

One assumes that this is a US based survey since KFF is based in San Francisco.

 

I wonder just what a similar survey in Thailand or Europe would look like.

 

I have heard all of them and I know them to be untrue apart from maybe the numbers one. With every country having different testing regimes and counting methods who knows the real numbers anywhere.

 

 

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

One assumes that this is a US based survey since KFF is based in San Francisco.

 

I wonder just what a similar survey in Thailand or Europe would look like.

 

Well, in the USA, according to that poll, Republicans are far more likely to believe multiple falsehoods than are Democrats oi Independent. So, in the USA and in much of Europe, the likelihood of subscribing to these falsehoods increases in likelihood the more right-wing a believer in them is.

Some of the biggest spreaders of misinformation are doctors.  Luckily, a few have been silenced.  This one the hard way.

 

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/11/10/covid-doctor-misinformation-minnesota-vadnais-heights

A Twin Cities doctor spread misinformation about COVID-19. Then he died from it

Thus this Pandemic will be around for years................

I have occasionally heard a few Dr's who are anti-vaxxers.  I notice that all of those that don't believe in vaccines ALWAYS believe in Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine as a cure or preventative.  

 

I suspect they have been standing WAY too close to the X-ray machine for WAY too long!

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/12/business/media/coronavirus-misinformation-radio-podcasts.html

 

On Podcasts and Radio, Misleading Covid-19 Talk Goes Unchecked

False statements about vaccines have spread on the “Wild West” of media, even as some hosts die of virus complications.

On a recent episode of his podcast, Rick Wiles, a pastor and self-described “citizen reporter,” endorsed a conspiracy theory: that Covid-19 vaccines were the product of a “global coup d’état by the most evil cabal of people in the history of mankind.”

“It’s an egg that hatches into a synthetic parasite and grows inside your body,” Mr. Wiles said on his Oct. 13 episode. “This is like a sci-fi nightmare, and it’s happening in front of us.”

Gee Let me think:  If you believe that trump won the 2020 election in spite of 60 court cases being tossed and numerous recounts done by republicans might you also believe that Jan 6 was just a regular tourist day at the capital and that shoving a lite up your butt and taking worm medicine will cure covid? 

 

There is a difference between being rational and intelligent and delusional and dumb.

Some troll posts discussing moderation have been removed. 

6 hours ago, Virt said:

Most of these questions could be answered pretty easy if people would do their research instead.

 

However, it also depends which country that poll is from.  Different governments use different strategies/daily reports etc.  So 1 and 3 are probably the 2 questions that vary most from country to country.

 

As an example.

An article in todays danish paper mentions, that up to 36% of the ones being reported hospitalized with covid 19 here in Denmark, are hospitalized for other reasons than covid 19, but are counted as covid 19, because they are also tested positive.  Broken leg, hip replacements, cancer,  submissions to psyc wards ,etc etc.

 

That gives a wrong impression.

I hope the danish authorities start to change their daily reports, so they only include those that are being submitted because of problems with covid 19.

 

I can imagine a lot of other countries use the same strategy, because it takes more work to pinpoint each case.  It's headlines here so it will be interesting to see what they answer.

 

A positive case, especially when being admitted to hospital, needs to be reported as a positive case.  There are different protocols for dealing with anyone with an infectious disease, regardless of the initial presenting condition. 

 

I understand what you are saying but we certainly wouldn't want these people reported as negative and dealt with as if they did not carry Covid.  

1 hour ago, Scott said:

A positive case, especially when being admitted to hospital, needs to be reported as a positive case.  There are different protocols for dealing with anyone with an infectious disease, regardless of the initial presenting condition. 

 

I understand what you are saying but we certainly wouldn't want these people reported as negative and dealt with as if they did not carry Covid.  

They could provide a daily report that showed both numbers, so it would be easier to see how serious the situation actually is.

I know people with covid has to be dealt with differently compared to regular patients, but it still paints a blurred image,

when we put them all in the same box, if only 4/5 are actually needing treatment for covid. 

It does not surprise me at all.

 

How many times have we seen hard core anti vaxxers post misinformation on here, have their false hoods pointed out and corrected with detailed explanations and verifiable links, only have them to return later and post exactly the same nonsense?

 

Anti-vaccine dogma is hard wired into the heads of its adherents.

 

To achieve that science, math, observable reality, trust in doctors and even acting in self preservation have been over written.

 

Vaccines have been politicized, the implanting of anti-vaccine messages into the minds of millions of people is the most stunning example of propaganda and mass control I have witnessed in my life time.

 

 

 

 

 

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

It does not surprise me at all.

 

How many times have we seen hard core anti vaxxers post misinformation on here, have their false hoods pointed out and corrected with detailed explanations and verifiable links, only have them to return later and post exactly the same nonsense?

 

Anti-vaccine dogma is hard wired into the heads of its adherents.

 

To achieve that science, math, observable reality, trust in doctors and even acting in self preservation have been over written.

 

Vaccines have been politicized, the implanting of anti-vaccine messages into the minds of millions of people is the most stunning example of propaganda and mass control I have witnessed in my life time.

I was in Portugal recently.  Where the vaccination rate is very high and face masks are worn EVERYWHERE.  The president of Portugal was asked how he achieved this?  His reply?

 

Quote

I didn't make it political.

 

"A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on" 

Sadly, enabled by social media these days. 

 

 

Off-topic post removed.

 

The inaccuracy that is blandly and confidently repeated all the time that gets on my nerves is that "vaccines take 10 to 15 years to approve".

When people who quote this provide their support, it is just an article making that assertion without any examples of how long any particular vaccine took to develop.

In a post trying to support this assertion on this forum there were several sources provided that actually provided numbers in much shorter time frames.

The efforts to correct these errors are like trying to keep the wave on the shore, not willing to keep having the same discussion endlessly.

Yesterday my woman told me one of her childhood friends died 5 days after having his first AZ shot (healthy 43yo male in BK).

Saturday my daughter was rushed to hospital 2 days after her first AZ shot (healthy 23yo female in CM).

But I know of nobody who suffered unduly from COVID (sick or healthy).

On 11/25/2021 at 7:56 AM, BritManToo said:

Yesterday my woman told me one of her childhood friends died 5 days after having his first AZ shot (healthy 43yo male in BK).

Saturday my daughter was rushed to hospital 2 days after her first AZ shot (healthy 23yo female in CM).

But I know of nobody who suffered unduly from COVID (sick or healthy).

This exchange encapsulates the general problem with offering personal anecdotes.   It offers to some the recourse of inventing incidents no matter how unlikely they actually are. Some are believable and others clearly convenient and strain credulity. Best to stick with independently verifiable facts. 

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Yesterday my woman told me one of her childhood friends died 5 days after having his first AZ shot (healthy 43yo male in BK).

Saturday my daughter was rushed to hospital 2 days after her first AZ shot (healthy 23yo female in CM).

But I know of nobody who suffered unduly from COVID (sick or healthy).

Wow! Not only are such events rare, but you are connected to 2 that just happened to occur in the last few days! Amazing.

It's a bit too simplistic just to point the finger at the right wing for anti vaxx views. There are numerous other correlations, for example:

 

In the UK it's been reported that 72% of black people are unlikely to get vaxxed.

 

And in the former East Germany anti vaxx sentiment is driven as much by residual mistrust of government from the Soviet era as by anything else.

 

It's also pretty well known that QAnon has a large number of subscribers from the libertarian left, despite having more from the right.

 

The continual filtering of all issues through left-right ideological prejudices is reductionist, unrealistic and unhelpful to discussion.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/16/covid-vaccine-black-people-unlikely-covid-jab-uk

 

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/17/eva-wiseman-conspirituality-the-dark-side-of-wellness-how-it-all-got-so-toxic

23 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Yesterday my woman told me one of her childhood friends died 5 days after having his first AZ shot (healthy 43yo male in BK).

Saturday my daughter was rushed to hospital 2 days after her first AZ shot (healthy 23yo female in CM).

But I know of nobody who suffered unduly from COVID (sick or healthy).

Two highly improbable events witnessed by the same person can be described mathematically by conditional probability:

 

Pr(a)|Pr(b) =extremely unlikely.

 

I suggest you go buy a lottery ticket, then take your winnings and back those on a horse.

 

You are having an extreme run of luck to witness two events that support your long expressed preconceived positions.

 

Of course there might well be another explanation for these extremely unusual coincidence between what you believe and what you report.

 

 

If all the unvaxxed anti vaxxed would have gotten the shots when first available i suspect that the covid pandemic would have been and would continue to be much much less severe and millions of deaths would have been saved not to mention all the economic nightmares that continue to drag on and on.  Argue all you want and cite obscure internet "experts" but I do not believe for one minute that above is not a true statement.  Does anyone who is not delusional?

32 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Yesterday my woman told me one of her childhood friends died 5 days after having his first AZ shot (healthy 43yo male in BK).

Saturday my daughter was rushed to hospital 2 days after her first AZ shot (healthy 23yo female in CM).

But I know of nobody who suffered unduly from COVID (sick or healthy).

I know of half a dozen cases of death in Thailand of people with no known illness following sinopharm/vac.

 

None from AZ, though several people I know felt bad enough to take a few days off work after their AZ jab

9 minutes ago, pomchop said:

If all the unvaxxed anti vaxxed would have gotten the shots when first available i suspect that the covid pandemic would have been and would continue to be much much less severe and millions of deaths would have been saved not to mention all the economic nightmares that continue to drag on and on.  Argue all you want and cite obscure internet "experts" but I do not believe for one minute that above is not a true statement.  Does anyone who is not delusional?

No rational person is against vaxx in my humble opinion. But your narrative is not very accurate, at least not in most countries. Hugh damage was done before vaccs were even available by incompetent politicians (Johnson the "herd immunity" advocate in the UK, and the well known bleach advocate in the US).

 

Yes the case rate is recently up substantially due to the rump of anti vaxxers among other things, but the mortality rate has been less affected because most of the higher risk groups were already vaxxed and were very happy to get vaxxed.

2 minutes ago, blackprince said:

It's a bit too simplistic just to point the finger at the right wing for anti vaxx views. There are numerous other correlations, for example:

 

In the UK it's been reported that 72% of black people are unlikely to get vaxxed.

 

And in the former East Germany anti vaxx sentiment is driven as much by residual mistrust of government from the Soviet era as by anything else.

 

It's also pretty well known that QAnon has a large number of subscribers from the libertarian left, despite having more from the right.

 

The continual filtering of all issues through left-right ideological prejudices is reductionist, unrealistic and unhelpful to discussion.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/16/covid-vaccine-black-people-unlikely-covid-jab-uk

 

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/17/eva-wiseman-conspirituality-the-dark-side-of-wellness-how-it-all-got-so-toxic

Well, in Germany the AFD has come out against vaccination. And the AFD is strongest in the East.

I truly doubt that Qanon has a lot, or even a significant proportion of leftwing adherents. I follow that kind of thing pretty closely and it certainly isn't known to me. Got any links to back that up?

Black residents of the UK account for roughly 3 percent of the population. So not a real significant figure. And the latest study I saw put the percentage of vaccinated at 36%

As for filtering the issue through a political lens being unrealistic...

U.S. Covid Deaths Get Even Redder

The partisan gap in Covid’s death toll has grown faster over the past month than at any previous point.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/briefing/covid-death-toll-red-america.html

And take a gander at this from charles gaba, a statistican whose work on the ACA and the pandemic has been cited in the NY Times and other similar outlets.

 

https://acasignups.net/21/11/01/weekly-update-covid19-case-death-rates-county-partisan-lean-vaccination-rate

Being fair-minded isn't the same thing as both-sidesism.

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, in Germany the AFD has come out against vaccination. And the AFD is strongest in the East.

I truly doubt that Qanon has a lot, or even a significant proportion of leftwing adherents. I follow that kind of thing pretty closely and it certainly isn't known to me. Got any links to back that up?

Black residents of the UK account for roughly 3 percent of the population. So not a real significant figure. And the latest study I saw put the percentage of vaccinated at 36%

minded isn't the same thing as both-sidesism.

The correlation between residual mistrust of government in East Germany from soviet times and anti vaxxers has already been pointed out you by a German who knows Germany far better than we will. The afd correlation is not relevant to the correlation I am talking about, but your confirmation bias only allows you to see the half of the picture you want to see.

 

The size of the black community in the UK is irrelevant to the statistic that c70% black British are anti vaxx. You might also want to consider that statistic in light of the fact that Britain has the highest acceptance of vaxx in the major western economies.

 

Re QAnon and the libertarian left. I already provided the link in my post that you responded too. As far as I remember that was specifically an Australian report.

 

In my opinion you display as much confirmation bias aka perception bias as the people you frequently deride here. You also have a tendency to see the rest of the world through the filter of the US culture war that you are so heavily engaged in.

 

1 hour ago, blackprince said:

The correlation between residual mistrust of government in East Germany from soviet times and anti vaxxers has already been pointed out you by a German who knows Germany far better than we will. The afd correlation is not relevant to the correlation I am talking about, but your confirmation bias only allows you to see the half of the picture you want to see.

 

The size of the black community in the UK is irrelevant to the statistic that c70% black British are anti vaxx. You might also want to consider that statistic in light of the fact that Britain has the highest acceptance of vaxx in the major western economies.

 

Re QAnon and the libertarian left. I already provided the link in my post that you responded too. As far as I remember that was specifically an Australian report.

 

In my opinion you display as much confirmation bias aka perception bias as the people you frequently deride here. You also have a tendency to see the rest of the world through the filter of the US culture war that you are so heavily engaged in.

 

Let’s be clear, people holding left wing views have indeed been caught up in the anti-vaccine misinformation.

 

But it is rightwing political leaders who have formulated national and state policies based on COVID/Vaccine misinformation and who continue to propagate misinformation to bolster the policy lines they have established.

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s be clear, people holding left wing views have indeed been caught up in the anti-vaccine misinformation.

 

But it is rightwing political leaders who have formulated national and state policies based on COVID/Vaccine misinformation and who continue to propagate misinformation to bolster the policy lines they have established.

The dividing line is vaxxers and anti vaxxers .

This is an issue that cannot be divided between the left and the right 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The dividing line is vaxxers and anti vaxxers .

This is an issue that cannot be divided between the left and the right 

Apart from the fact it is rightwing political leaders propagating anti-vaccine misinformation and predominantly right leaning individuals who swallow it.

 

The predominance is right wing with a much smaller subset of left wingers.

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Apart from the fact it is rightwing political leaders propagating anti-vaccine misinformation and predominantly right leaning individuals who swallow it.

 

The predominance is right wing with a much smaller subset of left wingers.

Why does it matter which side they are on ?

This about vaccines .

Their political leanings are irrelevant to this matter