question concerning debts and liability of children

[earthscar]

A Native Thai friend of mine recently had their mother pass away. As they where dealing w/ the funeral arrangements they had friend of their mother say that the mother had borrowed money from them. The amount was 5,000 baht. They had a legal, atleast to my untrained eyes, document saying the money had been given and needed to be paid back. My friend also seemed to think its a legal document so atm i'm going to go off the idea it is.

 

They where informed of the debt by the mother,prior to her passing, and are unsurprised by the request after the funeral. My curiosity is can a parent or sibling go into debt by borrowing money from a indevidual,not bank/institution, and be legally obligated to pay said debt off?

 

The 5k baht doesn't seem to concern them, it just strikes me as odd they can be held liable if their name isn't on the document and they didn't take part in the transaction. I would think this could be easily abused by unsavory characters.

[robblok]

In my country kids can decide to either take or not take the inheritance (as a whole). 

 

So that means they have to pay the debts too not just plunder the bank accounts. I would say its the same in my countries.

 

So either you accept the whole inheritance (debts included) or you refuse the total inheritance (debts included)

 

So if your friend is getting like part of the car or house of the mom then yes he has to pay off the loan too. 

 

You cant just only accept the positive and not the negative. (that would lead to chaos)

 

Just assuming that this is a world wide thing (for more info ask a Thai lawyer)

 

(usually possessions are used to pay of the debts and whatever is left is divided)

 

(if more debts then possessions then just refuse the inheritance maybe you have to do so at a lawyer)

Edited December 2, 2021 by robblok

[earthscar]

I found this as i was searching around off the website scb.co.th--

 

Legacy occurs when a person dies. And that person's inheritance will be passed on to the heir immediately both assets, rights, duties, and liability occurred with or due to the death of the deity. Such as the money that the beneficiary receives from the deceased's life insurance contract not considered an estate. Or benefits arising after the death of the deceased, such as interest (Considered to be the benefit of the heir)
 

Therefore the debt is inherited because it is the duty to pay the debt to the creditors. Although the deceased died the obligation to pay back the debt to the creditor will remain. Then the heir must pay the debt--must pay all, what if the money is not enough to pay?

 
The answer is in the case that the deity has a debt before death in an amount greater than the estate or only left the debt without any assets to the heir. The heir does not have to be responsible for paying debts beyond the inheritance that heir receives. For example, the estate of the deceased, worth 2 million baht, but the deceased has a debt of 3 million baht. Therefore, the heir must receive compensation in the amount not exceeding 2 million baht only. While the remaining 1 million baht the heirs do not have to be held responsible for being considered a debt that is unique to that person. That means If the deceased is in debt with no inheritance, heirs are not responsible for that debt. But if there is more heritage than debts, the heirs must first pay off all the debts and then share the heritage.

 

My take away from this was since there was no land or monetary inheritance after the passing of the mother then the debt to the friend of 5,000 baht even if backed up b a signed,and seemingly notoried, document means largely nothing as there was no passing of value on to the children. The site is for a law firm here in thailand so i'm assuming that it should be a accurate representation of the child's obligation. Though i could be missing something in that.

 

In the end they will probably pay the 5k baht it is more just a curiosity of mine that they seem to believe that a parent could take a debt out w/ a none institution(read:freind) and then hold children accountable for said debt.

[blackcab]

The estate of the deceased will be liable for the debt. If the estate has insufficient funds then the debt can remain unpaid with no legal consequences for others, unless a third party guaranteed the debt, in which case the third party would become liable.

 

In reality, for a relatively small sum of money it may be better to pay so that cordial relations remain, even though there might not be a legal obligation to do so.

[earthscar]

Ya that was my take away, and seems to be the path they are taking in regards to the debt. Just bemused me that there was possibly some way a debt between private citizens could pass on to a child w/o the child signing/co-signing the document.

[Kwasaki]

50 minutes ago, earthscar said:

I would think this could be easily abused by unsavory characters.

If they happy to pay it is a usual thing to do on such a small amount even if there is no guarantors it is like they are taking care of the memory of their mother. 

Is the friend of the mother a unsavory character.  ????????

[blackcab]

5 hours ago, earthscar said:

Just bemused me that there was possibly some way a debt between private citizens could pass on to a child w/o the child signing/co-signing the document.

 

No, there is no legal possibility of this, however with a lot of people living in small communities it is often better for them to retain long term relationships rather than cause short term strife.

[khunPer]

On 12/2/2021 at 6:18 AM, earthscar said:

The 5k baht doesn't seem to concern them, it just strikes me as odd they can be held liable if their name isn't on the document and they didn't take part in the transaction. I would think this could be easily abused by unsavory characters.

The debt will be part of the deceased estate, if the children are taking over the estate as heritage, they'll have to pay the debt.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 12/2/2021 at 12:30 PM, robblok said:

In my country kids can decide to either take or not take the inheritance (as a whole). 

 

So that means they have to pay the debts too not just plunder the bank accounts. I would say its the same in my countries.

 

So either you accept the whole inheritance (debts included) or you refuse the total inheritance (debts included)

 

So if your friend is getting like part of the car or house of the mom then yes he has to pay off the loan too. 

 

You cant just only accept the positive and not the negative. (that would lead to chaos)

 

Just assuming that this is a world wide thing (for more info ask a Thai lawyer)

 

(usually possessions are used to pay of the debts and whatever is left is divided)

 

(if more debts then possessions then just refuse the inheritance maybe you have to do so at a lawyer)

Debts are not inherited by heirs, they are paid off from the estate of the deceased prior to the distribution of any remaining assets by way of inheritances.   If there is no estate, no assets, sole borrowings of the deceased do not pass as debt to the family.

[Liverpool Lou]

16 minutes ago, khunPer said:

The debt will be part of the deceased estate, if the children are taking over the estate as heritage, they'll have to pay the debt.

Debts are paid off after probate is granted and before any remaining assets are passed on as inheritances.  Heirs to an estate are not obliged to pay off debts incurred by the deceased from their inheritances after the estate has been distributed. 

[khunPer]

37 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Debts are paid off after probate is granted and before any remaining assets are passed on as inheritances.  Heirs to an estate are not obliged to pay off debts incurred by the deceased from their inheritances after the estate has been distributed. 

Which is done by a court and can take quite some time; in the OP it's mentioned that the debt was presented was during funeral preparations, which is the base for my reply...????

[robblok]

49 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Debts are not inherited by heirs, they are paid off from the estate of the deceased prior to the distribution of any remaining assets by way of inheritances.   If there is no estate, no assets, sole borrowings of the deceased do not pass as debt to the family.

Basically that was what I was saying, the inheritance is the sum of debts and assets.

 

You either accept or not accept the inheritance (at least in my country)

 

See below where i mentioned that

(usually possessions are used to pay of the debts and whatever is left is divided)

 

(if more debts then possessions then just refuse the inheritance maybe you have to do so at a lawyer)

 

 

[robblok]

47 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Debts are paid off after probate is granted and before any remaining assets are passed on as inheritances.  Heirs to an estate are not obliged to pay off debts incurred by the deceased from their inheritances after the estate has been distributed. 

Basically that is not true, if you accept the inheritance and its negative then you are liable for the debts that remain.

 

That is at least how it is in many countries and mine is one of them. But i stated that im not sure how it works in Thailand.

 

This is not automatic as you think it is. 

 

This can be a problem if someone wants the family house but the inheritance is negative in total then they have to pay off the debts. (or try to buy the home or other stuff that will be sold off to satisfy debtors).

 

In my country one often goes to a notary / lawyer who checks out all things and after things are clear one can either accept or not accept the inheritance.

[Liverpool Lou]

18 minutes ago, khunPer said:

58 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Debts are paid off after probate is granted and before any remaining assets are passed on as inheritances.  Heirs to an estate are not obliged to pay off debts incurred by the deceased from their inheritances after the estate has been distributed. 

Which is done by a court and can take quite some time; in the OP it's mentioned that the debt was presented was during funeral preparations, which is the base for my reply..

That debt would have to part of the probate process, the family does not have to accept responsibility for it.   How could they be liable if there were no assets left to them?   Presenting a debt repayment demand at a funeral does not mean that the legal aspect is dispensed with.

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That debt would have to part of the probate process, the family does not have to accept responsibility for it.   How could they be liable if there were no assets left to them?   Presenting a debt repayment demand at a funeral does not mean that the legal aspect is dispensed with.

I realize that you understand my initial point...

[natway09]

Just pay the old biddy the 5,000 Bht if the deceased has signed (They knew about it before she died anyway) Keep the peace.

A minor is not allowed to be  nominated nor responsible for others debts

[robblok]

 

 

6 hours ago, khunPer said:

Which is done by a court and can take quite some time; in the OP it's mentioned that the debt was presented was during funeral preparations, which is the base for my reply...????

Indeed, first things have to be checked, bit early for that all to be done at the funeral. This will take time.

[earthscar]

Some interesting replies, I did pay the 5k baht. It wasn't really a option not to due to the emotional connections.

 

I was really more curious about the actual legality of it all. From both replies I got and some internet search it turns out that they where indeed not legally required to pay the amount back due to the estate not having any cash, land or items of value. 

 

[bkk_mike]

2 hours ago, earthscar said:

Some interesting replies, I did pay the 5k baht. It wasn't really a option not to due to the emotional connections.

 

I was really more curious about the actual legality of it all. From both replies I got and some internet search it turns out that they where indeed not legally required to pay the amount back due to the estate not having any cash, land or items of value. 

 

But it's your Thai friend's mother.

I would understand them paying.

Unless this is a very close friend, I don't understand you paying.