I was educated fairly well to be a critical thinker. To always question authority. Looking at history, that makes very good sense.

 

But something extremely insidious has happened to that POV in recent years and it has spread (like a radically anti-intellectual virus) very rapidly internationally thanks to the internets and assorted global crises.

 

While before this dangerous rational discussion killing distortion when a person said 'Do your own research / I do my own research' it was almost always said with sincerity and to encourage independent  intellectual inquiry.

 

That has been turned on it's head!

 

Go on the internets for minutes and you will see this done again and again, no doubt millions or billions of time.

 

Person A: Broadcast blatant conspiracy theory garbage / dangerous misinformation.

 

Person B: (if a masochist) Trying to bring the discussion back to the real world of science, logic, and credible evidence.

 

Person A: You're a sheeple! Do your own research!

 

In other words, get brainwashed by misinformation from endless bad sources so you transform into yet another Person A.

 

Short of that, Person A and Person B have nothing left to discuss.

 

Is there a way out of this cesspool?

 

If there is, I don't see it. It seems to be getting worse and worse over time. 

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Is there a way out of this cesspool?

Don't use the internet, read newspapers or interact with any other humans.

actually, it works on both sides, so nobody is right at the end, no matter the research ????

 

I guess another example for what your on about is people not getting vaccinated. 

2 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

actually, it works on both sides, so nobody is right at the end, no matter the research ????

 

Actually they aren't equivalent sides at all!

If a Person A says Bill Gates in the devil's seed and wants to implant tracking chips in vaccines, any half way rational person knows that is total garbage!

 

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Actually they aren't equivalent sides at all!

If a Person A says Bill Gates in the devil's seed and wants to implant tracking chips in vaccines, any half way rational person knows that is total garbage!

 

Everyone has their own opinions and ideas, that's what makes life 'interesting'

 

Perhaps a move to N Korea to become drones with the rest of the population there?

You're right and it's the most dangerous trend in modern history. When relatively well educated people turn away from facts, reason and science the outcome will be a disaster for democracy.

It happens everywhere but is most prevalent and visible in the US.

 

Will America’s disregard for science be the end of its reign?

3 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

You're right and it's the most dangerous trend in modern history. When relatively well educated people turn away from facts, reason and science the outcome will be a disaster for democracy.

It happens everywhere but is most prevalent and visible in the US.

 

Will America’s disregard for science be the end of its reign?

Indeed but it's really global now. I just heard today vaccine hesitancy in South Africa is being driven by American misinformation sources like Joe Rogan. I've also heard that Facebook is particularly weak in addressing misinformation in non English languages, particularly Spanish in Latin America. 

There are two major sinister figures that laid the groundwork. Ronald Reagan intentionally stopped "The Fairness Doctrine," then Bill Clinton allowed media monopolies to be formed. As a result, now six companies control the vast majority of media broadcast around the world.

https://www.webfx.com/blog/internet/the-6-companies-that-own-almost-all-media-infographic/

 

You can look at one news report from source "X" and source "Y" - both will twist the facts to fit their narrative. We all know one major news source has been exposed as a mouthpiece for evangelicals, but there are no sources that don't have some blood on their hands.

19 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Everyone has their own opinions and ideas, that's what makes life 'interesting'

 

Perhaps a move to N Korea to become drones with the rest of the population there?

Opinions are not facts, but too many people are starting to believe their opinions are gospel. Case in point - "Critical Race Theory" is NOT being taught in any grade schools, but too many liars reported it was, so ignorant parents were willingly deluded and death threats were launched at school board members.

To many big words being used in here for me, im off for a beer

NO. Person B wasting their time with Person A who having no actual case can and must be so dismissed. Unlike Person B, Person A is effectively a Cult Member so is immune to rational argument, facts & evidence. They can only cure themselves. Many Person A are actually Person B but are exhibiting Person A behavior for twisted personal or political reasons.

Person A are lying or deranged and always wrong. Person B is always right in principle (if not always mastering the detail). Person A will find one “issue” from one hundred moving parts to “ collapse” whole case.

Or will deploy “straw man” and “ad hominem” deflections away from their nonsense.

22 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Everyone has their own opinions and ideas, that's what makes life 'interesting'

 

Perhaps a move to N Korea to become drones with the rest of the population there?

Anyone spouting nonsense will be challenged and exposed with reputation damage / loss. Listening to fools is tiring & annoying not interesting.

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Actually they aren't equivalent sides at all!

If a Person A says Bill Gates in the devil's seed and wants to implant tracking chips in vaccines, any half way rational person knows that is total garbage!

 

can you safely said that Bill Gates is not the devil work? ????

 

do you have insider information we don't? ????

 

you don't know period, so both statements are empty. The correct answer is "I don't know if Bill Gates is the devil or not"

 

1 minute ago, TropicalGuy said:

Anyone spouting nonsense will be challenged and exposed with reputation damage / loss. Listening to fools is tiring & annoying not interesting.

The misinformation is so pervasive and associated with so many famous people that I think the repetition is creating even more Person As.

Also to mention a related trend.

The Person A's rhetoric has become much more violent.

Calls to literally hang and shoot people associated with rationality and science have become very common.

Dehumanizing them -- very common to call them devils and to mix religious fanaticism with the misinformation. 

How does this end well? 

2 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

can you safely said that Bill Gates is not the devil work? ????

 

do you have insider information we don't? ????

 

you don't know period, so both statements are empty. The correct answer is "I don't know if Bill Gates is the devil or not"

 

What's scary is that I don't think you're joking. 

Just now, Jingthing said:

What's scary is that I don't think you're joking. 

what is more scary is that you think you know better than the rest of us ????

It feels good to be in control and it feels good to be part of something.

I think a big swathe of the population aren't dumb but aspects of their rational minds have become a bit scattered, sometimes due to a difficult life, or whatever.

If they find somewhere where there scattered thoughts are accepted, and they can feel more in control of their world,  then they are happy.

Social media has given them that. 

Add to that, people with rational arguments are people too, and are often therefore flawed. It's  hard to poke holes in rational ideas  but it's often not hard to poke holes in the people who have such ideas. Even if just to classify them as a particular political persuasion. 

It is tedious that so much energy goes into so many stupid ideas and theories. 

 

 

'Do your own research / I do my own research' has become code for conspiracy theory followers

That sounds like a rip-roaring good conspiracy theory you've constructed.
This should be entertaining.  ????

 

52 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Don't use the internet, read newspapers or interact with any other humans.

Are 'the Newspapers' not available on the internet?

A religious upbringing often sets one up for a lifetime of gullibility. They don't believe in science, education, logic or facts.

I met a young fellow recently (American) and he thinks the earth is 6,000 years old. He informed me that Noah brought dinosaurs onto the Ark....

 

Simpletons like him dwell in an alternative reality & are a prime target to be exploited by scammers, conspiracy peddlers, politicians that manipulate them with political advantageous hate, behavioral science marketing and weaponized religious intolerance, bigotry & xenophobia.

He "does his research" by watching Info Wars, Fox News and insists Donald Trump is a faithful, honest good Christian man that cares about the average American.

The mind boggles.

 

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Actually they aren't equivalent sides at all!

If a Person A says Bill Gates in the devil's seed and wants to implant tracking chips in vaccines, any half way rational person knows that is total garbage!

 

Sure. The tracking chip vaccine business might come across a little far fetched and seemingly OTT.

Yet, the title of Devil's Seed might be more than appropriate when addressing the most illustrious and romantically slobbered over "a man for the people" Mr. Gates - as his deeper associations and projects have some real nastiness and immoral "Robber Baron" elements to his activities that go largely unnoticed by the foundations of convention. 

 

Critical, challenging and questioning thought can only be useful when practiced, less the dreamy assumptions that solidify our predisposed notions of what is and what isn't. 

 

No such beast as an absolute. 

28 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Sure. The tracking chip vaccine business might come across a little far fetched and seemingly OTT.

Yet, the title of Devil's Seed might be more than appropriate when addressing the most illustrious and romantically slobbered over "a man for the people" Mr. Gates - as his deeper associations and projects have some real nastiness and immoral "Robber Baron" elements to his activities that go largely unnoticed by the foundations of convention. 

 

Critical, challenging and questioning thought can only be useful when practiced, less the dreamy assumptions that solidify our predisposed notions of what is and what isn't. 

 

No such beast as an absolute. 

Many Absolutes in this life. Questioning Thought without Evidence can be dismissed as worthless. Above are Examples Only not meant to be analyzed. 

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

actually, it works on both sides, so nobody is right at the end, no matter the research ????

 

This is an indication of a descent into a dark period of our recent past when truth didn't matter and lies became the truth. In effect, what you are saying is that lies and misinformation share the same intellectual space as the truth and demands equal time and space and where the concept of unbridled free speech supplants the need for truth and equality. .

56 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

can you safely said that Bill Gates is not the devil work? ????

 

do you have insider information we don't? ????

 

you don't know period, so both statements are empty. The correct answer is "I don't know if Bill Gates is the devil or not"

 

No that’s the stupid answer. “I don’t know” if there is a Teapot orbiting Mars but the scientific ODDS, like with Gates above, are literally astronomical . Understated best answer is “most probably not” or even “there is no evidence”.

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

This is an indication of a descent into a dark period of our recent past when truth didn't matter and lies became the truth. In effect, what you are saying is that lies and misinformation share the same intellectual space as the truth and demands equal time and space and where the concept of unbridled free speech supplants the need for truth and equality. .

Exactly. No equivalence whatsoever between true facts and proven lies. 

3 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

No that’s the stupid answer. “I don’t know” if there is a Teapot orbiting Mars but the scientific ODDS, like with Gates above, are literally astronomical . Understated best answer is “most probably not” or even “there is no evidence”.

The basis of the modern conspiracy theories is to make them so wacky that there is no real way to disprove them. Your example is a good one. There is no way to disprove that there is a teapot orbiting Mars so it's perfectly valid to insist one is and shout down anyone who challenges the proposition based on mere critical thinking.

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

you don't know period, so both statements are empty. The correct answer is "I don't know if Bill Gates is the devil or not"

I don't know if Bill Gates is the devil or not, but he certainly appears (to me) to be a force for evil in the world.